[Sly Fox]

On one of the Fundy boards there were a few recently who tried to make a stink of Liberty dropping the name Baptist from our Seminary. Considering the fact that 20 years ago we did the same thing with the entire school going from LBC to LU, it seems odd for there to be much of an uproar.

It seems its rare to find a church that markets itself as ______ Baptist Church anymore. I know down here in Texas where Baptists are everywhere the name has negative connotations after decades of public feuds between Conservatives & Moderates.

I know there are a few religion & seminary students and alumni who peruse this site. What do you think about the move?

Do you feel it de-emphasizes the theological foundation of the school?

[TallyW]

I actually don't know that it truly matters either way. One of the things that is changing in the theological landscape is the focus of who each of us are as believers. In recent history theological students have focused much more on the "baptist", "methodist", "pentecostal", etc. more than the "Christian" or "Theos".

I didn't have beef with it before but I can't see how the change really matters... the training is solid and the reality is that we've had people from various denominations attending LU and LBTS for years so this just formalizes the open-invite. I think it helps seperate tradition from theology from methodology. Just my opinion though.... not very many emotional ties to it.

[Hold My Own]

that's interesting, although I cant really understand it or think it will happen, simply b/c the SBC

[TallyW]

It already happened.

http://www.liberty.edu/academics/religion/seminary/

[jimflamesfan]

I actually like it. LBTS (Now LTS) had many students that were Presbyterian, and it places people at churchs that are non-denominational, as well as other denominations.

I think it would open the door to allow more students to come to LTS for solid evangelical training.

For example, I grew up in the United Methodist Church, but I went to LU's undergraduate program, got baptized, and was later became a baptist and went to LBTS.

However, when I first came to LU, I thought I was going to become a UM pastor...even though it was a really liberal denomination, there are still some conservative pastors in it (later I guess we could start Calvin/Arminean arguments, and stuff like that), but let's put that aside for a moment...I have other topics that I want to add to the chapel eventually, but I just haven't gotten around to it)

In the United Methodist church...you don't have to go to a UM seminary to become a pastor. Many people where I grew up went to Pittsburgh Theological Seminary, which is Presbyterian, but the UM Board of Ordained Ministry recognizes Pittsburgh Theological Seminary as a approved institution. The Board of Ordained ministry of the UM church also recognizes the seminary at ORAL ROBERTS UNIVERSITY.

You see, in the methodist system, they're more open to where you go...but the seminary must be approved. If Liberty's seminary added two elective classes on John Wesley...they could petition to join the list of approved schools for UM pastors.
It would all be up to the BOM. (Board of Ordained Ministry).

The truth is, most of the UM seminaries are liberal, and very few student's go to them. It's tragic how badly the UM seminaries have fallen. However, Asbury, a conservative Weslyian seminary (not UM), actually puts out more UM pastors than all of the UM seminaries combined.

LTS could pick up some more students and influence entire denominations as a conservative option for seminary. Although I'm sure Liberty will take some flack from the fundamentalists...but we already take flack from the fundamentalists for placing pastors in SBC churches, and I'm sure we take flack for having speakers like John Hagee and Dave Cymbola coming to LU.

But I think Liberty is good in that the school does what is necessary to have the biggest impact, regardless of what critics say.

[Hold My Own]

I wonder if this will affect our standing with the SBC?

[TallyW]

No way it will affect the SBC. The truth is that the SBC needs LU more than the other way around. I'm a part of the state SBC and I know for a fact that the state and National SBC wanted seats on the L(B)TS board but Jerry wouldn't go for it. LU itself now has SBC ties through the board.. but not the seminary. SBC wanted the Seminary to add to it's collection (figuratively speaking) but couldn't get it. LU is actually very good on it's own... no reason to get involved with SBC's national scene as far as that goes.

[Sly Fox]

Most all of the top SBC seminaries do not have Baptist in their titles either. If anybody knows Dr. Caner and wants to invite him to the discussion on here (I see on Facebook he is certainly internet savvy) I'd love for him to address this directly.

From my perspective, I really don't care for titles as much as I do content. As long as they aren't watering down the curriculum I have absolutely no issue with the change. Somehow I don't see that being a consideration. Much has changed regarding the Liberty Way over the years. But we continue to remain steadfast in our Evangelical foundation.

[thesportscritic]

I like the change. For those who have a relationship with Christ and Born again, we are all one in the Body of Christ no matter what denomination like Baptist, Methodist, etc....

[PastorZack]

As a alumni of LBTS and LU...it is a little discouraging to see this happen. I do not know if any or all of the staff had a problem with it or not, but as long as the doctrinal stance is the same and hasn't changed, then I don't have that much of a problem with it. I would like to hear from Dr. Towns,Dr. Brindle, Dr. Stevens, Dr. Giese, and even Dr. Fink, on what they think about the move?

[SuperJon]

I'm not Baptist, I've never claimed to be and quite frankly, I never will. I've been raised Pentacostal and that's who I am, it's part of me. Personally, even if they "teach Baptist," I'm more likely to go to seminary somewhere that doesn't have Baptist in the title than one that does. Does that make sense? I hope it does.

[Jasmen8182]

My home church decided to keep "Baptist" in the title despite neg. assoc. (so many diff. kinds....)
There are strong doctrinal roots. (I remember my pastor doing several messages abt. King David having doctrine in his soul- not that the former shepherd boy was baptist Doctrine is important but the bottom line is to love one another; trust in Christ is the focus.) BTW, Rev. Dave Brown used to work with Dr. J.F.; I'm not sure of the details of when and what capacity.

[phoenix]

Most all of the top SBC seminaries do not have Baptist in their titles either.

Actually, they all do:

The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary
Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary
Midwestern Baptist Theological Seminary
Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary
Golden Gate Baptist Theological Seminary

... think that's all of them. When peope talk about them, it's usually Southern or Midwestern, but officially the Baptist is still in the name.

I think that teaching distinctly Baptist ecclesiology is important -- of course, that's why I'm going to Southern. If you're doing that, you should let people know up front. If that's not the direction LTS is going, then it makes sense.

{btw, Sly Fox -- thanks for the invite to this board. Things over at that other place were getting boring.}

[Sly Fox]

Thanks for coming on board, phoenix. I think you'll find this place a nice diversion from some of your other discussions.

To be honest, I honestly thought Southern & Southwestern were no longer using Baptist in their name because I never saw used that way in recent times. But I do stand corrected.

I don't believe we are changing the direction of our teaching one iota. If we are it would be news to us.

[phoenix]

I didn't figure there was a change in direction. More marketing than anything else (and I was a marketing major, back in the day).

AND the folks at Liberty are trying to show that they AREN'T a SBC seminary. Probably a good decision.

[MDIVIVVY]

Actually I was opposed to the move not because I recognize that their were non-baptist students here in the congregation, but because the main reason they did it was to attract more students. No conviction, just more attendance (yes I can say that with absolute fact) The thing is we still teach baptist ideas and doctrine. If we're honestly going to change our name, then we should change some of the courses (like Baptist history), instead of pretending to be some all-inclusive school by dropping the Baptist out of our name.

[PAmedic]