[SuperJon]

We haven't had a good debate on here in a while so maybe this will start one.

I'm reading the book Four Views On Hell right now for class. I'll admit that it's much more interesting than I ever thought it would be. I'm not finished with it yet but it's got me thinking. With that being said, let's talk about Hell.

Is it real?

Is it eternal?

Is it actual fire?

Is it something else?

[prototype]

Have you been to The Justice Center in Asheville?

[Rocketfan]

Have you been to The Justice Center in Asheville?

.....burn.....

[Kolzilla41]

Or having your team up 3-1 in the first round of the Stanley Cup playoffs and then losing the series.

[prototype]

Or having your team up 3-1 in the first round of the Stanley Cup playoffs and then losing the series.

Good to see another Caps fan on the board with me. They are going to have to get some Vets on that team next year and I don't care if you have to trade Semin away - but they need a GOALIE!!!

[Kolzilla41]

Or having your team up 3-1 in the first round of the Stanley Cup playoffs and then losing the series.

Good to see another Caps fan on the board with me. They are going to have to get some Vets on that team next year and I don't care if you have to trade Semin away - but they need a GOALIE!!!

They need D. Varly let in 2 soft goals the entire series. Mike Green was responsible for the PP goal and the GW goal Moore knocked in. He also had a turnover in game 5 that cost the Caps. Poti, Carlson and Alzner(the 1 game he played) did a fantastic job. The rest of the D and 2nd and 3rd lines were worthless.

[prototype]

Or having your team up 3-1 in the first round of the Stanley Cup playoffs and then losing the series.

Good to see another Caps fan on the board with me. They are going to have to get some Vets on that team next year and I don't care if you have to trade Semin away - but they need a GOALIE!!!

They need D. Varly let in 2 soft goals the entire series. Mike Green was responsible for the PP goal and the GW goal Moore knocked in. He also had a turnover in game 5 that cost the Caps. Poti, Carlson and Alzner(the 1 game he played) did a fantastic job. The rest of the D and 2nd and 3rd lines were worthless.

I agree with you. Defense needs some love, but over the regular season goal tending was a big sore spot. Wasn't all the D's fault. In this series they played really bad.

[ATrain]

We haven't had a good debate on here in a while so maybe this will start one.

I'm reading the book Four Views On Hell right now for class. I'll admit that it's much more interesting than I ever thought it would be. I'm not finished with it yet but it's got me thinking. With that being said, let's talk about Hell.

Is it real?

Is it eternal?

Is it actual fire?

Is it something else?

To get this back on topic:
1. Yes, I believe it is
2. Yes, if heaven is eternal, so is hell
3. The bible talks about a lake of fire, but a lake implies liquid, therefore it is my personal opinion it may be more like lava than actual fire.
4. Not quite sure what is meant by this question.

Yeah, those are my views. Could be wrong, we'll find out when we are called before the Lord.

[ALUmnus]

I don't get why it's so en vogue to question these things. It's like, look at me I'm so smart I think outside the box (ie. outside the bible). And I'm not saying this is you, SJ, just in general.

[SuperJon]

I just like hearing different people's opinions. The more I read about Hell, the more I realize there are multiple views within Christianity and most of them can be Biblically backed up.

[Sly Fox]

Just like there are several states of heaven (i.e. Abraham's Bosom, Intermediate State & New Earth) I believe there are probably parallels in hell. The Lake of Fire is not until after judgement so it has yet to be occupied.

All we know for sure is that all of them are places of torment, The common caricatures of Satan & Hell didn't appear until Dante popularized them.

While I have heard plenty of messages over the years on Hell (my grandfather wrote the very popular book in the 60s called 'Hell Is No Joke' that would be a great resource for you, SJ), I have heard very few on heaven. Which is very surprising when you ponder it. Right now I am working my way through Randy Alcorn's Heaven. I highly recommend it although it is not light reading.

[SuperJon]

I've only read half of Four Views On Hell so far so all I've read is the Literal View (actual fire, brimstone, etc) and the Metaphorical View (the fire and brimstone was just imagery). I'm not sure if I'll be able to read the rest of it as thoroughly as I'd like before the paper is due but we'll see.

[ALUmnus]

While I have heard plenty of messages over the years on Hell (my grandfather wrote the very popular book in the 60s called 'Hell Is No Joke' that would be a great resource for you, SJ), I have heard very few on heaven. Which is very surprising when you ponder it. Right now I am working my way through Randy Alcorn's Heaven. I highly recommend it although it is not light reading.

That's funny because my experience has been the exact opposite. I can't remember the last sermon I've heard specifically on hell, but plenty on heaven. Maybe it's because "fire & brimstone" preaching has been so degraded and mocked over the years it's lost its popularity or people are afraid to go back to it. Must have to do with our age difference (hah!).

[Sly Fox]

I agree that fire & brimstone is rarely discussed these days but what did you hear preached about heaven? I can tell you that all I heard about heaven in my time at LU (when we had considerably more theology class time & chapel) could probably be presented in a half dozen sentences. Usually the cop out of it being greater than we could ever imagine is tossed around and frankly the imagery that is out there doesn't sound very appealing to most. Who wants to float around on a cloud with a harp?

As for hell, I believe there is real physicality in the place of torment where souls reside now until the Judgement Seat of Christ. Most hell descriptions in Scripture that we think of refer to the Lake of Fire after the judgement. The big question is whether Jesus was using allegory when he told the story of Lazarus in Abraham's Bosom or could it have been an actual story? I believe it could have been either since obviously Jesus would have access to the events. If it is indeed a true description then we have our best idea of what the torment may entail IMHO.

[BJWilliams]

I read the book "90 Minutes in Heaven" and it was a pretty good look at what heaven is like. Id certainly recommend it.

[Sly Fox]

That book occurred close by where I live. Piper spoke at a church near us a couple of months ago and my family went up to hear him speak. He's a no-nonsense speaker who gets the greater purpose of his experience.

All that said, I love Alcorn's book which takes the topic to a complete other level.

[LUconn]

3. The bible talks about a lake of fire, but a lake implies liquid, therefore it is my personal opinion it may be more like lava than actual fire.

This made me laugh. Sounds like a quote from The Office. Though I'm not sure if Michael or Dwight said it.

[GoUNCA]

Right now I am working my way through Randy Alcorn's Heaven. I highly recommend it although it is not light reading.

I was going to ask Sly Fox about his reading of "Heaven" incorrectly thinking it was by Lisa Miller and not Randy! Alcorn (I'm a firm believer that it is improper not to use an exclamation with a name like Randy!). I doubt it happens, but if anyone does get to Lisa Miller's book, let me know.

Could be wrong, we'll find out when we are called before the Lord.

Would you find out though? If Heaven is some kind of garden of infinite goodness then God certainly wouldn't go spoiling it with giving your penthouse a view of a great lake of tortured souls. That sort of thing really lowers the property value.

I've heard very good arguments for being agnostic about the afterlife and for why emphasizing an afterlife could be bad for Christianity. I'll be throwing my hat in with them, if only for this thread.

[whmatthews]

Hell/Lava/Brimstone.... whatever it is, I believe it is a real place and thank God I will never get to experience it first-hand.

[Rooster Cogburn]

Hell/Lava/Brimstone.... whatever it is, I believe it is a real place and thank God I will never get to experience it first-hand.

I'm With you! Hell is real, and it's a place of torment. Christ gave me a gift of life in heaven and a way out of the hell I deserve. End of story, and all I need to know.

[SuperJon]

Here's the most interesting question "against" the literal fire:

Fire is a physical pain. If it is our soul that goes to hell, how would fire be painful? How can a soul experience physical pain?

[Sly Fox]

Why do you assume we won't have physicality in heaven & hell?

[SuperJon]

I have yet to put my opinion. I'm writing a paper on this so I'm just showing what people ask because it's interesting.

[Rooster Cogburn]

I thought this would be interesting to throw out http://www.biblegateway.com/resources/d ... d=T0001731

No matter what view(s) you choose to take on Hell, it is clear that it is important by the number of times it is brought up in the bible.

[Rooster Cogburn]

Also, back to the body/Soul discussion, maybe these 2 verses will help.

Matthew 10:28 Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

Matthew 5:29 If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell.