[TDDance234]

There are a number of folks associated with Student Ministry on this board (through seminary, some volunteers, some parents of students, some student pastors themselves), so figured this might be an appropriate thread.

1 - What are you doing that's working in your area?
2 - What is needed in Student Ministry right now, that you're not necessarily getting (training, fellowship with other student pastors/leaders, accountability/communication with your Senior Pastor?)

[SuperJon]

2 - What is needed in Student Ministry right now, that you're not necessarily getting

A job.

[Sly Fox]

It is tough with staffs cutting back. I believe my church is looking for someone to run our Family Life Center & sports programs (we have huge Upward programs and our own adult leagues) .... both fall under our missions department and includes missions trips to conduct Upward sports camps worldwide.

Student pastor opportunities seem to be tougher to land right now than childrens ministry positions. The latter are everywhere.

I am anxious to see which of TD's options draws the most reaction. I know #3 is an issue or some of my buddies in student ministry in larger churches.

[SuperJon]

Student pastor opportunities seem to be tougher to land right now than childrens ministry positions. The latter are everywhere.

Here's the thinking:

We want mom and dad to come to church. We know mom and dad won't come to church if there's nothing for their babies while they're there. We also know that mom and dad won't care as much if there isn't anything for their teenager because the teenager can sit in big church. We can just get volunteers to do the teenage ministry. Therefore, since having a children's program brings in more money than the youth program, the youth position gets cut.

[Sly Fox]

There is some validity to that concept. But the bigger issue is that college kids & seminarians come out of school looking for work and feel more comfortable around teenagers than kids. That means the talent pool with children is really shallow. For every person looking for a childrens ministry position I'll bet there are 50 looking for student ministry slot.

And Evangelical churches in general tend to be most appealing to families with kids. That essentially is the sweet spot for attracting the disconnected. So building church programs that spotlight children makes sense.

[TDDance234]

There is some validity to that concept. But the bigger issue is that college kids & seminarians come out of school looking for work and feel more comfortable around teenagers than kids. That means the talent pool with children is really shallow. For every person looking for a childrens ministry position I'll bet there are 50 looking for student ministry slot.

And Evangelical churches in general tend to be most appealing to families with kids. That essentially is the sweet spot for attracting the disconnected. So building church programs that spotlight children makes sense.

And when churches find a good children's director/pastor/leader whatever you want to call it, they do whatever they can to hold on to them. The turnover in children's ministry is nothing compared to the average stay of a youth person.

The normal stay for a youth leader has dwindled down to 9 months. If you think you can build anything in ministry in 9 months, you're sadly mistaken. I think part of that is what I mentioned in the OP. The accounability between senior pastors and youth pastors are almost non-existant. Most churches hire a youth guy, give him/her the reigns and tell him to produce results without much coaching...and then wonder why in 9 months they're out the door and looking for another position.

[SuperJon]

This is just me thinking out loud, but I'd have to think the accountability/coaching issue isn't as big of a problem in church plants. Our best church planters right now are former youth guys so I would guess that they would be right there coaching their youth guys and helping them out as much as possible. You just don't lose that passion for youth even if your calling changes from student pastor to senior pastor.

[Cider Jim]

2 - What is needed in Student Ministry right now, that you're not necessarily getting

A job & a wife

FIFY

Have things changed, or is it still a prerequisite for most youth pastor positions that the candidate must be married?

[SuperJon]

I've never heard of a position where a candidate must be married. Personally, I'd think they'd rather hire someone who isn't married, especially at a younger church. The guy wouldn't need as much of a salary plus he'd have a lot more free time to get things done at work. If a wife is a requirement then I'm not getting a job anytime soon.

[TDDance234]

I've never heard of a position where a candidate must be married. Personally, I'd think they'd rather hire someone who isn't married, especially at a younger church. The guy wouldn't need as much of a salary plus he'd have a lot more free time to get things done at work. If a wife is a requirement then I'm not getting a job anytime soon.

You would be surprised. At a couple of the churches I interviewed at before I landed here, it almost sounded as if they were going for a 2-1 deal. They were looking for a married couple. I made sure it was known upfront that while my wife absolutley is supportive of the student ministry, she would be as active with youth programs/events as she felt comfortable.

[SuperJon]

I hate dumb churches.

[Cider Jim]

You would be surprised. At a couple of the churches I interviewed at before I landed here, it almost sounded as if they were going for a 2-1 deal.

TD, I actually had a former student who was hired as a worship minister, and several months into the job, the senior pastor told him that the new worship minister's wife had to be at the beck and call of the senior pastor, any time a special project was needed to be done for free ("2-1 deal").

My former student immediately quit his worship minister job, because they had two small kids, so his wife was needed at home as their mother. Without a job, my former student had to move into his parents' basement for a year. He's back into the worship ministry now, but that was one tough year living with his folks.

[Sly Fox]

A lot of churches are very reluctant to hire a single guy to work with their students. Unfortunately there is a really bad track record of the years of this being a problem. The same churches will hire single guys for College/Young Professionals position.

[phoenix]

One of the things I noticed in working with a youth pastor at the last church I pastored is the disconnect between the youth group and the church in general.

The youth were in the service on Sunday morning. Sunday and Wednesday nights they were doing their own services. There wasn't a lot of accountability there, because I couldn't get in to hear what was being covered. I trusted the youth leaders, so I didn't have a problem with it, but others in the church did. So one thing I would love to see youth ministers do is to teach their youth to serve the church (beyond the whole "Youth Sunday" thing, which is a good idea but is only a start).

On the other side, I think more churches need to actually fund their youth programs. When I took the position, the youth group didn't have a line in the church budget at all (!!). They raised their own money, did their own stuff, and felt VERY cut off from the rest of the church. It was like having two churches meeting at the same time on the same property. Thankfully, by the time I left that had changed. Youth groups spend too much time trying to raise money.

One thing I'm glad to see changing (however slowly) is the attitude that the 'youth minister' position is a stepping stone to becoming a "real" pastor. That's why youth ministers only last a few months -- they feel like they should be looking for a head pastor's position, and the church won't pay them a full-time salary to keep them because they think that the YP is essentially an intern for the pastor (which is why they have to keep looking for another job).

And, of course, I have to post this:

[youtube]

[/youtube]

[Libertine]

This is just me thinking out loud, but I'd have to think the accountability/coaching issue isn't as big of a problem in church plants. Our best church planters right now are former youth guys so I would guess that they would be right there coaching their youth guys and helping them out as much as possible. You just don't lose that passion for youth even if your calling changes from student pastor to senior pastor.

In my experience, the opposite is true because the former youth guy never really stops being the youth guy. He can't give it up and it ends up putting the current youth guy in a bad position where he carries all the responsibility for the youth program but doesn't have the freedom to do what he feels needs to be done without running every little thing past the former youth guy who now has all the responsibilities of an entire newly-planted church to deal with.

[rueful]

One of the leading factors in me getting this job was Liberty being on my resume. I had no experience, am only 22, and my boss told me that that was what made me stick out to be interviewed, and my interview went well.

I agree that a lot of churches hope for the 2 for 1 deal as you say, but not all churches are expecting it. Many just want the guy to be married because of as stated before, not a good track record of single guys.

And that goes to one of my things that is the toughest in youth ministry right now, the stupid decisions of a couple hundred perverts that make one on one ministry harder to do every day. Yeah, sure, I could go do ministry one on one with a girl in my youth group, but I have to stay above reproach. Having my wife here in two months will make it a heck of a lot easier because she and I can take a student out to eat together, as opposed to me doing it alone.

And I agree with above. Most ex Youth Pastors are a pain to work with if they are still in the church. The guy who held my position was in my church with two kids in my youth group, and as helpful as that could be, it wasnt. At all. Thankfully they left our church and go to a different one now.

[rueful]

oh and what were doing thats working is getting rid of programs.

(im joking. For those that have read any youth ministry books in the last few years, this sums them all up)

But no, what some books are saying, not all or alot, that I am doing in the youth ministry here is really focusing on the parents. I mean I had an awesome Youth Pastor who gave awesome talks, but I think I remember maybe 3 of his lessons he gave. And when you think about whats a big difference between kids who graduate from church and those who dont, primarily, its the parents that determine the outcome.

So the first sunday of the month, the sr. pastor has pizza with the youth kids and hangs out with them so they know him outside of preaching, and I have pizza with the parents and give a brief 5 minute announcement, state of the youth group, here is what were talking about, and then a different parent each month leads a discussion about an issue facing the youth of today and what the parents are doing about it, and I really dont chime in unless asked since Ive never been a parent.

You should check out ministryquestions.com if you have more questions and are a youth pastor