A Sea Of Red

...my apologies if this thread has been started.

Your thoughts?

I think it is a statement by Obama that he is going to at least attempt (at the surface) to try to reach out to all Americans...just not the traditional liberal constituents. Watching CNN last night...the liberal commentators and guests were going nuts over the choice...due to the differing views on abortion and homosexual rights/marriage.

obama is against gay marriage...I don't know why people think he is for it...

anyways, its an interesting move...like you said..at the surface it appears he is at least attempting to reach the entire country...we shall see

What's with people always talking about a politician "reaching out"? The guy won the election, he doesn't want to reach out to anybody, he just wants to get in there and start implementing his policies. He chose Rick Warren because Warren's a household name and the only pastor Obama knows that most people can tolerate. Democrats are celebrity-driven, and Rick Warren is a very celebrity-like pastor.

ALUmnus wrote:What's with people always talking about a politician "reaching out"? The guy won the election, he doesn't want to reach out to anybody, he just wants to get in there and start implementing his policies.

Exactly. Screw re-election!

RW is playing into Obama's hand. Obama is using RW to gain credibility and RW is taking the bait. You say Obama is against same sex marriage. Is he also against civil unions (same thing)? and contractual rights for homosexual couples (again, same thing, just different code word for same sex marriage)?

I don't see the big deal to be honest.....I believe Rick Warren is that trying to get "conservatives" to see that yes we may have differences but that he is are president and that is the fact and as believers we r to pray for those who "God" put into authority.....I personally didn't vote for Obam or McCain (but I did vote......I know I know shame sham sham) Idk I just dont see why right wing uber conservatives are making sucj a big deal bout this.

DeathCab4LU wrote:I don't see the big deal to be honest.....I believe Rick Warren is that trying to get "conservatives" to see that yes we may have differences but that he is are president and that is the fact and as believers we r to pray for those who "God" put into authority.....I personally didn't vote for Obam or McCain (but I did vote......I know I know shame sham sham) Idk I just dont see why right wing uber conservatives are making sucj a big deal bout this.

I don't think it's fair to blame 'right-wing uber conservatives' for making a big deal of this. I see 'left-wing uber liberals' doing the same thing.

Rick Warren sold out many years ago...I know that's going to rub some people on here the wrong way but he did, and this just further proves it.


Rick Warren = Joel Osteen


About the only difference is if you were to punch RW in the face he may come clean that you have to be saved in order to go to heaven while Joel wouldnt know what answer you were looking for

Would you rather have Rev Wright?

Sure! At least Obama wouldnt be selling out then

Hold My Own wrote:Rick Warren sold out many years ago...I know that's going to rub some people on here the wrong way but he did, and this just further proves it.


Rick Warren = Joel Osteen


About the only difference is if you were to punch RW in the face he may come clean that you have to be saved in order to go to heaven while Joel wouldnt know what answer you were looking for

Jonathan had sent a very nice email out this week about supporting Rick Warren- called "Reviled on All Sides"

Figured since it was sent out publicly- I'd just repost the email for you guys that hadn't seen it (if anyone feels its a copyright violation please feel free to delete it.) Sorry in advance for the length.

Jonathan Falwell wrote:FALWELL CONFIDENTIAL
Insider weekly newsletter to The Moral Majority Coalition and
The Liberty Alliance http://www.falwell.com <http>

From: Jonathan Falwell
Date: December 19, 2008

Reviled on All Sides

New York Yankees Hall of Fame catcher Yogi Berra once stated, “When you come to a fork in the road, take it.”

I see this hilarious anecdote as the absolute opposite example of the Christian who is living out his faith in Christ. In fact, I believe that when a mature Christian comes to a spiritual fork in the road, God often exhorts him/her down the least likely path in order to fulfill His purpose.

And since we are not always traveling down the paths of least resistance in the Christian life, our lives are often challenging.

You see, when we make ourselves available to God, He’ll often place us on the firing line. Subsequently, people will not always understand the options we choose for our lives.

Take my friend Rick Warren, for example. He is the author of a series of mega-selling books and the pastor of one of our nation’s most prominent churches. It would be easy for him to rest on his proverbial laurels and ignore the hot-button issues of the day.

But God continues to direct him into the fires of controversy, and Rick says, “I will obey.”

As such, Rick is probably the most contentious figure in the Christian world since a man whom I called Dad. And like Jerry Falwell, Rick is frequently hammered from the right and the left as he attempts to minister to our nation as a voice calling in the wilderness.

Take, for example, the fact that Rick has accepted an invitation to pray at President-elect Barack Obama’s Inauguration next month in Washington, D.C.

Guess who’s complaining? Liberals who, according to the Associated Press, call Rick a “homophobe” and “anti-gay bigot” because of his Bible-based conviction that God intends marriage for one man and one woman. People For the American Way’s Kathryn Kolbert has been one of the vocal critics of Rick’s scheduled prayer chiefly because of his pro-traditional marriage beliefs and his opposition to abortion. And Joe Solmonese of the Human Rights Campaign, in a message to Barack Obama, said, “By inviting Rick Warren to your inauguration, you have tarnished the view that gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender Americans have a place at your table.”

Tough crowd.

On the other hand, Rick is routinely disparaged by some conservative Christians because he has invited Democrats, including President-elect Obama, to his church and he attempts to take the love of Jesus Christ into non-traditional environments.

I’ve spent a great deal of time with Rick over the past few years and am absolutely convinced that everything he does in ministry is filtered by asking this question: “Will this bring glory and honor to Christ?”

The present situation reminds me of the writings of the Apostle Paul in II Corinthians, where he addressed believers who had been influenced by some who were preaching a counterfeit gospel. Paul had to defend his teachings, particularly the disciplinary components of I Corinthians, which were being attacked by the popular false prophets.

And in this great book we find a wonderful and sustaining verse, which reads: “For as the sufferings of Christ abound in us, so our consolation also abounds through Christ” (1:5).

In one of my first columns following my father’s death, I asked, “Are you controversial?” I think every Christian should be on the edge of controversy, as we follow the leading of Christ in our lives while we fearlessly defend our biblical principles.

It doesn’t matter if you’re Rick Warren or eleven-year-old grade school student Andrew White from Hattiesburg, Miss., God wants us to stand up for Him no matter where we are. (This week, Adam’s teacher refused to accept a poem he wrote for class because it mentioned Jesus. See Liberty Counsel’s report here: http://www.lc.org/index.cfm?PID=14100&PRID=759 <http> )

We are called to be representatives of Christ and to step out of our convenience.

In so doing, will you face problems? Might you be reviled from all sides like Rick Warren?

Ask those questions of Paul, who spent much time imprisoned and beaten because of his public defense of the faith. Note that Paul also expressed no remorse for this persecution because people came to know Christ through his suffering (Philippians 1).

I thank God for the examples of the Apostle Paul and Rick Warren and countless other servants of Jesus Christ who cast aside popularity and the ease of life so that God—and only God—will be magnified. That’s all that should matter in the life of a Christian.

Yes but he's making RW seem like a better Christian for "casting aside" popularity while I think it's obvious to many that he IS INDEED doing this for popularity.




I'll just say this. Those on TV today (RW included) are far different then those that were on TV 30 years ago. Today it's about growing, and getting bigger so that all the bills could be paid, whereas years ago many would go broke before they compromised.

coal

in

stocking

haha nice...


I dont know the heart of RW...from the outside looking in he's made some questionable decisions (not bad! just questionable) in the last few years, but when you have every move under a microscope maybe that is the reason why. I just know this...for almost half a decade Jerry Falwell was under that same microscope but very few could point to anything that made him seem less then genuine. It just saddens me looking around on TV today and seeing more and more church's looking more and more like TBN.

Ed Dantes wrote:I don't think it's fair to blame 'right-wing uber conservatives' for making a big deal of this. I see 'left-wing uber liberals' doing the same thing.

I agree.....for the liberals I understand their frustration.....they would rather have a preacher who supports their views....but Rick Warren has proved himself when it comes to the hard hitting issues (i.e. Presidential Debate) and I think HMO is out of his mind if he compares Rick Warren with Joel Olsteen

Hold My Own wrote:Yes but he's making RW seem like a better Christian for "casting aside" popularity while I think it's obvious to many that he IS INDEED doing this for popularity.




I'll just say this. Those on TV today (RW included) are far different then those that were on TV 30 years ago. Today it's about growing, and getting bigger so that all the bills could be paid, whereas years ago many would go broke before they compromised.

No I think he is truly led of the Lord. I don't believe RW has sought be popular...he has intentionally avoided syndicating his church services because of the reputations of many tv evangelists. (i.e. Jim Baker, Jimmy Swaggert and others who are in it for greed rather than God's glory) God has used him in a great way and given him a great platform. How would it look if he starting refusing these invitations becasue he didn't want to associate with liberals.

I think Jonathan's article was on point.

scuzdriver wrote:Would you rather have Rev Wright?

haha the liberals would at least they would have someone that agrees with them on the issues

kel varson wrote:No I think he is truly led of the Lord. He has said many times the one thing he didn't want to be associated with was TV evangelists. I don't believe RW has sought be popular...he has intentionally avoided syndicating his church services. God has used him in a great way and given him a great platform. How would it look if he starting refusing these invitations becasue he didn't want to associate with liberals.

I think Jonathan's article on point.

I completely agree with u KV

I think my biggest problem as a person is I'm to Old School minded even though I'm 24. I respect JF for his stance with staying on 1 stance for his lifetime. It's hard for me to come to terms with these "men of many traits" and I'm not being a smart guy (b/c I honestly dont know) but doesnt the Bible say something about men who have many traits? I remember JF talking about it in church when a guy handed him a business card and it had plumber, handyman, auctioneer, car salesman on it.

DeathCab4LU wrote:

Ed Dantes wrote:I don't think it's fair to blame 'right-wing uber conservatives' for making a big deal of this. I see 'left-wing uber liberals' doing the same thing.

I agree.....for the liberals I understand their frustration.....they would rather have a preacher who supports their views....but Rick Warren has proved himself when it comes to the hard hitting issues (i.e. Presidential Debate) and I think HMO is out of his mind if he compares Rick Warren with Joel Olsteen

We had long conversations about Osteen on FF a couple years ago. Osteen teaches "prosperity gospel" and lives extravagantly." Warren does not. Big difference.

Hold My Own wrote:I think my biggest problem as a person is I'm to Old School minded even though I'm 24. I respect JF for his stance with staying on 1 stance for his lifetime. It's hard for me to come to terms with these "men of many traits" and I'm not being a smart guy (b/c I honestly dont know) but doesnt the Bible say something about men who have many traits? I remember JF talking about it in church when a guy handed him a business card and it had plumber, handyman, auctioneer, car salesman on it.

So am I. Warren's church is not for everyone. I'm not big fan of his music or super informal setting, but that is a matter of taste.

kel varson wrote:

DeathCab4LU wrote:

Ed Dantes wrote:I don't think it's fair to blame 'right-wing uber conservatives' for making a big deal of this. I see 'left-wing uber liberals' doing the same thing.

I agree.....for the liberals I understand their frustration.....they would rather have a preacher who supports their views....but Rick Warren has proved himself when it comes to the hard hitting issues (i.e. Presidential Debate) and I think HMO is out of his mind if he compares Rick Warren with Joel Olsteen

We had long conversations about Osteen on FF a couple years ago. Osteen teaches "prosperity gospel" and lives extravagantly." Warren does not. Big difference.

That's good to hear about his lifestyle because his books alone has brought him millions upon millions and IMO that is going to have him have a higher standard of accountability b/c it being God's money....that's something else that absolutely kills me when I see people using God's money towards a TON of worldly goods. I remember last year when I met the Daystar girl who's like 20 or so....her parents started it...I swear she was in Mexico every other weekend and just traveling the world...then I turn it on and they are saying they were going to have to shut down if they didnt receive more money...I was quite confused.

Hold My Own wrote:

kel varson wrote:

DeathCab4LU wrote: I agree.....for the liberals I understand their frustration.....they would rather have a preacher who supports their views....but Rick Warren has proved himself when it comes to the hard hitting issues (i.e. Presidential Debate) and I think HMO is out of his mind if he compares Rick Warren with Joel Olsteen

We had long conversations about Osteen on FF a couple years ago. Osteen teaches "prosperity gospel" and lives extravagantly." Warren does not. Big difference.

That's good to hear about his lifestyle...that's something else that absolutely kills me when I see people using God's money towards a TON of worldly goods. I remember last year when I met the Daystar girl who's like 20 or so....her parents started it...I swear she was in Mexico every other weekend and just traveling the world...then I turn it on and they are saying they were going to have to shut down if they didnt receive more money...I was quite confused.

Yeah, he lives in a middle class size house and takes no salary from the church. Granted he made oodles from his book sales and that is what he lives on.