A Sea Of Red

Much was made of Obama's thoughts on Christianity based on a 2004 story in the Chicago Sun-Times. The writer of that story has now released the transcripts on the interview she did of the actual interview.

Click Here for Full Transcript on Christianity Today

It is full of interesting dialogue.

Barack Obama wrote:I find it hard to believe that my God would consign four-fifths of the world to hell.

I can't imagine that my God would allow some little Hindu kid in India who never interacts with the Christian faith to somehow burn for all eternity.

That's just not part of my religious makeup.

Part of the reason I think it's always difficult for public figures to talk about this is that the nature of politics is that you want to have everybody like you and project the best possible traits onto you. Oftentimes that's by being as vague as possible, or appealing to the lowest common denominators. The more specific and detailed you are on issues as personal and fundamental as your faith, the more potentially dangerous it is.

I am bringing into the Chapel forum so we can focus on the theological aspect of our President Elect and not just the political. Please keep the Politics in the Courtyard.

Sounds like Joel Osteen.

or Oprah

Here are a few quotes that stand out to me in addition to the one that Sly posted. Each statement contradicts what the Bible teaches.

FALSANI:
Do you believe in sin?

OBAMA:
Yes.

FALSANI:
What is sin?

OBAMA:
Being out of alignment with my values.

FALSANI:
What happens if you have sin in your life?

OBAMA:
I think it's the same thing as the question about heaven. In the same way that if I'm true to myself and my faith that that is its own reward, when I'm not true to it, it's its own punishment.

FALSANI:
Do you believe in heaven?

OBAMA:
Do I believe in the harps and clouds and wings?

FALSANI:
A place spiritually you go to after you die?

OBAMA:
What I believe in is that if I live my life as well as I can, that I will be rewarded. I don't presume to have knowledge of what happens after I die. But I feel very strongly that whether the reward is in the here and now or in the hereafter, the aligning myself to my faith and my values is a good thing.

When I tuck in my daughters at night and I feel like I've been a good father to them, and I see in them that I am transferring values that I got from my mother and that they're kind people and that they're honest people, and they're curious people, that's a little piece of heaven.

I thought this might spark more discussion. Frankly it is a fascinating look into his mindset.

Wow, how can you go to church for 25 years and get no truth? This shows how much we all need to pray for him and our country.

I wonder why this was not released before the election. I wonder what other articles about Obama will now be released after the elections

scuzdriver wrote:Wow, how can you go to church for 25 years and get no truth? This shows how much we all need to pray for him and our country.

Sadly, I'd say the majority of Americans who call themselves Christian would agree with him. Churches stopped teaching truth when they figured out positivity would get more people in the pews. They do great things with their soup kitchens and homeless outreaches (things we should all be doing), but they never meet spiritual needs. They ignore them in favor of tolerance and permissiveness.

The Gospel is meant to offend people. Unfortunately, American Christianity doesn't want to offend anybody. We're tolerating them straight to hell, and we're doing it with smiles on our faces and their tithes in our collection plates.

4everfsu wrote:I wonder why this was not released before the election. I wonder what other articles about Obama will now be released after the elections

I think we all know why this stuff wasn't released before the election.

phoenix wrote:[The Gospel is meant to offend people. Unfortunately, American Christianity doesn't want to offend anybody. We're tolerating them straight to hell, and we're doing it with smiles on our faces and their tithes in our collection plates.

I find this very offensive and so like the relgious dogma I was fed in the fundy Baptist churches we went to when I was a kid. People that are offended won't listen to the message long enough to hear the gospel truth.

I agree with Phoenix on this one. Obviously Obama didn't want to be offended, as he has never listened to the truth.

JeanW wrote:

phoenix wrote:[The Gospel is meant to offend people. Unfortunately, American Christianity doesn't want to offend anybody. We're tolerating them straight to hell, and we're doing it with smiles on our faces and their tithes in our collection plates.

I find this very offensive and so like the relgious dogma I was fed in the fundy Baptist churches we went to when I was a kid. People that are offended won't listen to the message long enough to hear the gospel truth.

I agree that the gospel is not meant to purposely offend people, but at the same time the message of the Bible that we are all sinners and there is only one way to heaven isn't exactly going to make people feel good inside, especially in the world we live in today of political correctness and tolerance of all religions and they all have their place and say.

I, personally, am not offended nor have I ever been offended by the gospel. I am a sinner and am thankful all the time that God cared enough to help me out. But satan has such a grip on the philosophy of many in this country that they are offended by the very thought that there is only one way to heaven...

Offensive or not, its truth.

Jesus says it Himself in Matthew 10:34 "Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword. For I have come to turn mother against father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law-a man's enemies will be the members of his own household."

Not that we should be "jerks for Jesus" and beat people over the head with the gospel. But the gospel is clear, Jesus is THE way, THE truth, and THE life and NO ONE comes to the Father but through Him. People who don't believe that are, not surprisingly, offended.

Christ promised us they will hate us just as they hated Him. No way around that one Jean. (Of course the key is to make sure they hate us for preaching the turth, in love, and not our own stupidity).

A quick search at Blue Letter Bible brought up these references on the Gospel and how it will be received.
Some will receive it unto true saving faith, many more will reject it, some violently.
Christ said that mankind will hate you because they hate Me (if you walk the talk).

Just a few refs from the search:
Luke 6:22, 1Cor 1:18 & 23, 2Cor 4:4, Jer 6:10, Rom 1:16, Rom 9:33, 1Th 2:4, Mat 10:22,

IF Obama has confessed that Christ is his Lord and Savior...and IF he has asked for forgiveness of his sins...then who the heck are we to criticize him or anyone else for their personal relationship with Him???

(now...either way...he apparently has a pretty confused view of what Christianity is)

Fumblerooskies wrote:IF Obama has confessed that Christ is his Lord and Savior...and IF he has asked for forgiveness of his sins...then who the heck are we to criticize him or anyone else for their personal relationship with Him???

(now...either way...he apparently has a pretty confused view of what Christianity is)

Both of which are BIG IF's since the Bible says that by our fruits we shall be known.
I am not sure its criticism of His personal relationship with Him. I think its criticism of his mis-guided, clearly non-Biblical points of view.

OK...I can certainly buy that.

JeanW wrote:

phoenix wrote:[The Gospel is meant to offend people. Unfortunately, American Christianity doesn't want to offend anybody. We're tolerating them straight to hell, and we're doing it with smiles on our faces and their tithes in our collection plates.

I find this very offensive and so like the relgious dogma I was fed in the fundy Baptist churches we went to when I was a kid. People that are offended won't listen to the message long enough to hear the gospel truth.

The Gospel truth is that WE ARE DOOMED without Christ. We're rebellious little children who have rejected what God has given us for a mess of pottage that Satan has deceived us with. The Gospel message is that to make it so we could get to Heaven God had to send His own Son to die for us. The Gospel truth is that there was once a Man who was perfect, and preached a message of God's Love to everyone, and we liked it so much that WE HAD HIM KILLED.

Jesus Himself told us that people were going to hate us, and not like what we have to say. Sorry if that offends you -- wasn't my idea. To get people saved, you have to get them lost first. That's what repentance is all about.

what is offensive is that people who call themselves "Christians" have no knowledge of what a Christian is. That concerns me...because the Bible says in the latter days there will be people who say "Lord, Lord, I did this in your name" and the Lord will reject them because of their lack of faith. Romans chapter 1 is a clear example of what our country and world are looking like today. the world is constantly changing the TRUTH into a LIE and denying the POWER thereof. Jean W, I hope that you are still a student at LU and have time to get more Biblical preaching instead of heading to a "feel-good" church.

Getting back to the topic on hand...

There was a story the past weekend about how the President-Elect has skipped church since being elected-president. He says it's because he doesn't want him and his entourage to be a distraction (although it hasn't prevented him from frequenting public gyms).

Maybe Obama is not attending church because his Uncle(Rev. Wright) is no longer a pastor

In fairness, Ronald Reagen seldom attended church while president, and cited the same reasons as Obama.

So, I'm rooted in the Christian tradition. I believe that there are many paths to the same place, and that is a belief that there is a higher power, a belief that we are connected as a people. That there are values that transcend race or culture, that move us forward, and there's an obligation for all of us individually as well as collectively to take responsibility to make those values lived.

Where, in the "Christian tradition," is it taught that there are many different paths to the same place?

As for the little Hindu kid that never interacted with Christianity, I believe after David's first kid with Bathsheba died, David mentioned something about that baby being in paradise, establishing the "age of accountability" theory that is taught today. So, if the kid is 4 or 5 when he or she dies, many will say that kid is in heaven b/c of that theory. Now, if its an older person in Hindu culture that had no interaction with a Christian or Christianity or access to a Bible or anything like that, my understanding is that there is a verse (forgot the reference) that says people are capable of looking around and understanding there is a Creator, but did not acknowledge even that, therefore are condemned or something like that.

ATrain wrote:Now, if its an older person in Hindu culture that had no interaction with a Christian or Christianity or access to a Bible or anything like that, my understanding is that there is a verse (forgot the reference) that says people are capable of looking around and understanding there is a Creator, but did not acknowledge even that, therefore are condemned or something like that.

If true, then what the heck is the point of missions?