[JK37]

*Rocco. I hate to to be cryptic, but there's sort of a buzzword to this one that will prohibit him or others like him from carrying this so-called torch, at least for a couple more generations, I believe (and hope). I'll give you a hint: it begins with a 'C'.

Co-Champion
Contract
Cover 2
Crazy Eyes

All of the above!

[SuperJon]

The fact that this is a question answers itself. This is a question that would have been asked at the time of Jerry's death, but seeing that it's being asked three years later, well, that's not good. I was thinking about this a few weeks ago, and I think because the school does lack a spiritual leader, it really hurts the student body and the whole spiritual climate of the school, which has been in steady decline for years now (in my opinion).

+1 - thats well said.

I think this is the best said thing so far. We'd had this discussion in seminary classes and no one has been able to come up with a true figurehead leader to look to on the spiritual side.

[PastorZack]

i know Doc had Elmer Towns and Harold Wilmington at LU and Jim Moon at the church. At LU now, I would think the spiritual leadership SHOULD come from the department heads. I would go with Towns, Johnnie Moore, and even Ed Gomes...I would put my trust in that.

[olldflame]

If you go back far enough, the "heirs apparent" to the spiritual leadership at LU were Ed Dobson and Ed Hindson. I would go so far as to say there was a time when Dobson's role with the students was almost as important as Doc's. Dobson left to pastor a great church and Hindson basically disqualified himself. It doesn't look to me like anyone has really stepped forward to take that role since.

Towns, Wilmington and Moon are all men of God, but I never saw any of them as more than "role players". Think Derrick Fisher, not Kobe Bryant.

[BJWilliams]

Lets again remember that Jerry Sr is a big man (figuratively and literally) with a gigantic spiritual legacy. everyone that has been around knows that (students, faculty, other administration, etc.) I think the reason that no one person has stepped up to take that "spiritual leader" place is because of the fact that maybe no one wants to be compared daily to someone who had such a great impact on people and was such a giant in the Christian realm. Would it have been good to have someone "groomed" to take up that mantle, like Franklin Graham was with his father Billy? I think that would have a good thing to do...but I dont see that as an indictment on the school (or on his sons either) necessarily. That doesnt mean I would not like to see that happen, but it also doesnt meant that the school is somehow less because it wasnt instantly in place once Jerry Sr passed away.

[Sly Fox]

Ed Dobson was clearly the spiritual leader of the student body in the Late '80s when I was on campus.

[SuperJon]

I would go with Towns, Johnnie Moore, and even Ed Gomes...I would put my trust in that.

Towns is respected but looked at as a goofy grandpa more than a spiritual leader.

Moore is look at as a joke and I don't know many that take him seriously at all.

Gomes is looked at as "Who?" to most of the student body.

[JK37]

I would go with Towns, Johnnie Moore, and even Ed Gomes...I would put my trust in that.

Towns is respected but looked at as a goofy grandpa more than a spiritual leader.

Moore is look at as a joke and I don't know many that take him seriously at all.

Gomes is looked at as "Who?" to most of the student body.

So is the issue not in their ability, but rather the way in which they're marketed or presented by either themselves or the University?

[SuperJon]

I guess you could say that although I'd put it on the person more than the school for the first two. Coach Gomes has never tried to be that person for the entire school because that's simply not his job.

[From the class of 09]

After reading this thread I'm not really sure what you are looking for in a “spiritual leader” from LU? The answer seems simple to me, how can it be anyone but the chancellor? Unless by “spiritual leader” you just mean someone to give a sermon to the student body every Wednesday.

Jr. might not lead in the same way that is father did but he is by title LU’s leader (in all aspects). No organization that I know of is able to successfully operate with two leaders. So unless your comfortable making one positions subordinate to the other (I’m not sure I am) this position must be filled by one person. If Jr. ever got out of line that’s what the board of trustee’s is for.

LU all ready has a system set up with campus pastor’s RD, RA, and SLD to deal with the students spiritually. If this is insufficient to the student’s I do believe there may be one or two churches in Lynchburg who preach the gospel I went to church off campus since my sophomore year and found this very acceptable.

[TDDance234]

After reading this thread I'm not really sure what you are looking for in a “spiritual leader” from LU? The answer seems simple to me, how can it be anyone but the chancellor? Unless by “spiritual leader” you just mean someone to give a sermon to the student body every Wednesday.

Jr. might not lead in the same way that is father did but he is by title LU’s leader (in all aspects). No organization that I know of is able to successfully operate with two leaders. So unless your comfortable making one positions subordinate to the other (I’m not sure I am) this position must be filled by one person. If Jr. ever got out of line that’s what the board of trustee’s is for.

LU all ready has a system set up with campus pastor’s RD, RA, and SLD to deal with the students spiritually. If this is insufficient to the student’s I do believe there may be one or two churches in Lynchburg who preach the gospel I went to church off campus since my sophomore year and found this very acceptable.

Going to church does not equate spiritual leadership.

We love Chancellor Falwell Jr. but he is not the spiritual leader of Liberty. He has done an excellent job leading the business side (campus expansion, etc...) but if crisis comes, can we honestly expect him to take a spiritual guidance/leader role? If something were to happen, I'd have to believe Jonathan would be called in to address the student body from a pastor's perspective.

[TDDance234]

After reading this thread I'm not really sure what you are looking for in a “spiritual leader” from LU? The answer seems simple to me, how can it be anyone but the chancellor? Unless by “spiritual leader” you just mean someone to give a sermon to the student body every Wednesday.

Jr. might not lead in the same way that is father did but he is by title LU’s leader (in all aspects). No organization that I know of is able to successfully operate with two leaders. So unless your comfortable making one positions subordinate to the other (I’m not sure I am) this position must be filled by one person. If Jr. ever got out of line that’s what the board of trustee’s is for.

LU all ready has a system set up with campus pastor’s RD, RA, and SLD to deal with the students spiritually. If this is insufficient to the student’s I do believe there may be one or two churches in Lynchburg who preach the gospel I went to church off campus since my sophomore year and found this very acceptable.

Going to church does not equate spiritual leadership. The OSL would be a terrible judge of spiritual climate.

We love Chancellor Falwell Jr. but he is not the spiritual leader of Liberty. He has done an excellent job leading the business side (campus expansion, etc...) but if crisis comes, can we honestly expect him to take a spiritual guidance/leader role? If something were to happen, I'd have to believe Jonathan would be called in to address the student body from a pastor's perspective.

[From the class of 09]

Going to church does not equate spiritual leadership.

We love Chancellor Falwell Jr. but he is not the spiritual leader of Liberty. He has done an excellent job leading the business side (campus expansion, etc...) but if crisis comes, can we honestly expect him to take a spiritual guidance/leader role? If something were to happen, I'd have to believe Jonathan would be called in to address the student body from a pastor's perspective.

I’m not really sure what you’re trying to say about going to church not equaling “spiritual leadership”

My point with going to church is that I’m choosing my pastor to fill the role of “spiritual leader” for my personal life. I look for that more from a church more than a university (even a Christian school).

My point with Jr. leading is, how do you separate the spiritual from the not? The spiritual side should be and is intertwined in everything LU does. How can you have one person in charge of leading the school politically, academically, and fiscally without him also being the spiritual leader. If you could find a more pastoral leader that agreed with everything Jr decided whole heartedly than it would be great. But rarely if ever has then been an organization run successfully with two equal leaders. This would force you to make one subordinate to the other which isn’t the most attractive option either.

That’s why I’m happy that LU is where it is. I think we were spoiled under Jerry, but we currently do have the positions in place to deal with any crisis situations dealing specifically with the University. Yes it looks somewhat different (with the leadership of Jr as compared to Original) but I don’t think this makes it wrong.

[BJWilliams]

I didnt get to add this point to my earlier post but the fact remains that if (God forbid) the spiritual climate makes a drastic shift at Liberty...whoever is said to be the "spiritual leader" at the forefront is going to take a massive hit because they were tasked with keeping Liberty on mission and that didnt happen. Who would want to be in that position?

[Schfourteenteen]

My point with Jr. leading is, how do you separate the spiritual from the not?

My information from the past and the exact history of the school are a bit vague. Someone who knows please correct me.

I think Jerry Sr. did this during the last years of his life. I couldn't speak to his exact level of involvement, but from what I've heard - The University was functioning(in the operational sense) without Jerry direct involvement in order to prep for where we are today. Jerry was an overseer of the business side, but most of the decision making was left to business savvy people who could build a school.

Jerry Jr. is an overseer of the spiritual side with direct involvement in the business side. The exact opposite that Jerry Sr. was. There's nothing wrong with that. I believe though, that there is no direct Liberty influence on the students at the school.

[SumItUp]

I believe though, that there is no direct Liberty influence on the students at the school.

Schfourteenteen, for my understanding, please clarify what you mean by this.

[JK37]

I believe though, that there is no direct Liberty influence on the students at the school.

Can you explain that statement any better? As is, I am baffled by it.

[jcmanson]

I believe though, that there is no direct Liberty influence on the students at the school.

What exactly do you mean by that quote?

[JK37]

haha!

Great minds, and all that...

[Schfourteenteen]

Definitely worded that wrong but here's what I mean:

Here's what you get at Liberty

-One Campus Pastor who speaks on Sunday
-Three out of town preachers at Convo
-Caner(who is Caner anyway?) every Wednesday
-Student Leaders doing their thing

In each of these situations, only two times does an actual full time Liberty employee face the student body - both being optional for all. Now, I don't have an issue with Church being optional, but I do see the benefits of Jerry Sr. speaking when EVERYONE had to be there. Of those two people, JM is more of a jester than a leader(student perception - but also understandable) and EC has lost credibility within the student body. There are holes in what I'm saying but the general point is that there is no one person who has a distinct direct influence on the entire student body.

I'm specifically referring to one person being respected or followed. The idea that one individual is respected to the point where people actually aspire to be like him. We don't have that.

I'm suggesting we are lacking a true Spiritual Leader who has direct involvement with the students while overseeing (not building or maintaining) the Spiritual infrastructure on campus.

[SumItUp]

Thanks for the clarification. That makes sense. I don't know the campus culture today, but this has reminded me of the love and admiration that the students had for Doc. He had an innate ability to relate to the students and faculty. He was special and had a very specific call from God.

[ALUmnus]

Has the whole Caner thing really reached the students enough that he's lost credibility with them and they don't respect him anymore? I'm asking honestly, because I wouldn't know that. That would be very interesting, I didn't think that would happen among the general student population.

[SuperJon]

I can't speak of the undergrad, but in the seminary it was split. There were those who would support him no matter what and there were others that weren't surprised by it and were open to listen to the allegations.

From what little connection I had left with the undergrad students, the vibe I got was that they were reading all this stuff on the internet that was bad and Liberty wasn't addressing it at all so they were led to believe it could be true.

[BJWilliams]

That shows a lack of critical thinking skills on the part of the undergrad students because they just take something on the internet and believe its true due to a lack of an immediate response from the school or Caner himself (even though Caner released a statment addressing the matter).

[SuperJon]

BJ, you have a small point, but the students also know that when there are allegations everywhere and the alleged says absolutely nothing, there's a good chance it's at least partially true. That's been shown over and over over the past five years.