[WinthropEagleFan]

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/06/19/charle ... index.html

This story is hitting the Charleston area hard.

[Sly Fox]

What an awful tragedy. Its a strong reminder of the fact that firefighters put their lives on the line on a near daily basis.

Prayers go out to their families & friends from Texas.

[Libertine]

This is going to sound really bad but I when I saw Charleston in the thread title, I was really hoping that it was talking about West Virginia. My older brother was a cop in Charleston for many years -- nearly an OTJ fatality himself -- and I know that emergency personnel of all stripes are an extremely tight-knit fraternity in that city. This is going to hit a lot of people very hard.

[PAmedic]

very bad news there.

I have no more information than anyone else, but am BETTING it was a trussed-roof construction. Large commercial occupancies use them b/c the ability to span large areas and allow for open floor space.

problem is - they are fine until exposed to heat, and due to inter-dependability for strength- when one fails , they all fail.

Catastrophically, and in a split second- you lose the whole roof.

we became aware of the deadly potential for this type of collapse back in the 80's at the Hackensack Ford fire in Jersey (legendary job in our business that killed 5 guys)

just a horrible deal

[FlameDad]

Medic
You are probably too young (or not born!) to remember the refinery fire in Philly next to the Penrose Bridge (now Girard Point) in 1975.
I was actually caught in the backup with my parents - police had to intermittently close the bridge due to the flames and smoke.
Eight firefighters lost their lives.
http://www.phillyfirenews.com/ootp/gulffire.aspx

Prayers for the families/friends of the SC firefighters.

[PAmedic]

yeah- I would've only been 5

was that down in Marcus Hook or out by the airport?

I vaguely recall hearing about it later- but the big one in the city was 1 Liberty Place.

another tragedy.

always a bad deal, but to lose 3, 5 or in this case (last night) 9 guys is absolutely horrific.

praying for the families and the crews that made it out.

[Baldspot]

The news reports seem to indicate that as the firemen went into the building, others broke windows along the side of the building thus letting in fresh air. What a tragedy.

[PAmedic]

The news reports seem to indicate that as the firemen went into the building, others broke windows along the side of the building thus letting in fresh air. What a tragedy.

not to go down a rabbit trail here- but thats exactly what SHOULD have been done. Ladder companies ALWAYS vent the exterior (either vertically thru the roof or horizontally thru the windows) AS the Engine companies make entry.

Doing so removes most of the heat and smoke so your interior crews don't take a beating, and drastically improves visibility. Otherwise, it would be like walking into an oven. Also, you need to vent on the opposite side of the structure so you don't get blasted AS you make entry (anyone see "Backdraft"? thats what happens when you dont vent)

I'm telling you- unless it was a torch job and something was done to accelerate the process, it was probably a truss failure- one minute the building is up, the next is down and you can't outrun gravity. Truss roofs are rated for about 20 min under heat/flame impingement, so that gives you 5-10 minutes AT MOST to work in there (assuming it took 5 minutes to discover and report the fire, and another 5 to get there and make entry. Those are GOOD numbers, and still BAD odds. Some times we lose the bet)

I apologize for the detour- the media has a way of giving bad impressions. So very sorry about this whole thing.

[Libertine]

I'm telling you- unless it was a torch job and something was done to accelerate the process, it was probably a truss failure- one minute the building is up, the next is down and you can't outrun gravity.

I forget where I read it but that's exactly what it was.

[4everfsu]

PaMedic, Rosie ODonnell says fire cannot melt steel

[PAmedic]

PaMedic, Rosie ODonnell says fire cannot melt steel

yeah- heard her say that. wondering if she ever actually thought about just HOW steel is forged?

if not, I'm sure a tour of any foundry could be arranged.

[PAmedic]

Looks like a flashover. http://cms.firehouse.com/content/articl ... ctionId=56

not a good deal; obviously- very rarely survivable. Basically, everything in the structure (incl the bldg AND its contents)heats up to its ignition temp and spontaneously combusts. Every FF's true nightmare- only thing you can do is hit the deck, flip to your back and use your hoseline to protect you as best as possible- BAD BAD BAD scene when it happens.

Honor roll of these guys:

Capt. William "Billy" Hutchinson, 48
Capt. Mike Benke, 49
Capt. Louis Mulkey, 34
Mark Kelsey, 40
Bradford "Brad" Baity, 37
Michael French, 27
James "Earl" Drayton, 56
Brandon Thompson, 27
Melvin Champaign, 46.

[BJWilliams]

A few of those guys had their whole careers ahead of them...very sad indeed...my prayers for their families (particularly those guys in their 20s 30s and 40s)

[horrez]

This has been a very, very sad story down here. I'm friends with the Chief of the fire department (Rusty Thomas) and I know this is hard for him. I don't think he had ever lost a man in all of his time as chief until now... 9 all at once. Some of these guys had been with the department for 30 years! He'd known and been friends with some of these guys since he (and they) were teenagers! And Chief is the kinda guy that knows everybody that is working for him... no matter how "low" in the system they are. Please keep him (and all of the men & women of the Charleston Fire Department) in your prayers.

On a side note... It is my understanding that the men went in there because there were reports that somebody was still inside. So, they went in to find the person. At a press conference, someone asked if it was "standard procedure" to send that many guys in at one time. Now, I don't know who asked the question... maybe I took it the wrong way... but to me it sounded like what he was really asking was "Why did you have so many guys in there at one time?" I forget the answer to the question, but I can tell you what I would have said...

If you're in a burning building, how many should look for you? Would you think 9 is too many? Not enough? What if it was your son/daughter/wife/mother/father/bestfriend in there? How many should go in?

I think they heard someone may still be inside, so they went in to get them. I don't think there was anyone inside, but that's why hindsight is so great. That's also what makes firefighters so great. Me? If it's me and WEF & Realist in a burning building, I'd probably make sure they got out. But that's because we're friends. If it's me and a stranger in a burning building, I'd hope they got out... but I wouldn't go back in to make sure. I would think they got out and then be sad to find out they didn't. But a firefighter? They go in because there's a chance someone might be in there in need of help. They don't wait to double and triple check because there isn't time. They'd rather risk their life to make sure, than stay safe and risk being wrong. God bless them.

*One more thing... I think one of the guys (Earl Drayton, I think) had retired once or twice from the department already... but he came back because they needed him. There was a funny little story about him and Chief in the paper yesterday that I will post here if I can find it.

[horrez]

Here it is... This is from the Post & Courier (the article talks a little about each of the 9).

http://www.charleston.net/news/2007/jun ... efighters/

Chief Rusty Thomas worked alongside Drayton as the two were coming up through the ranks in the 1970s. Thomas recalled a call that got a rise out of the low-key Drayton. A hot-water heater had caught fire in a house downtown, and as they headed toward the fire, Drayton got excited and blurted, "Rusty, get this going. That's my house."

It's stories like this that I hope will help the friends and families of the fallen 9 get through this hard time...

[PAmedic]

thanks HORREZ

and yes, its standard practice to send multiple crews interior, esp in a rescue situation.

even a normal entry team (for extinguishment only) uses an attack and backup line- you need at LEAST 3 guys on each, + officers.

add in a lot of sq footage to search, and a confirmed rescue situation- more guys.

reporters are *** words I can't use in this forum***

God bless my brothers and sisters in the Charleston Fire Department

[Sly Fox]

reporters are *** words I can't use in this forum***