[PAmedic]

in case any of you are slow and can't do the math, me and bryson are cousins. just thought i would clarify so no one gets confused

thanks for clarifying

I was thinking, "Civil Union"

(with that- Medic is back)

[kel varson]

I believe Bob Jones III actually kind of liked Falwell.

[Libertine]

I always kind of felt bad for BJ3. My impression of him for a long time has been that he's kind of roped into a lot of things thanks to BJ's 1 & 2.

[Cider Jim]

I believe Bob Jones III actually kind of liked Falwell.

Wasn't he the one that said Jerry was the most "dangerous man in America"?

[Sly Fox]

I believe that was BJ II. But the third hasn't shown much of an olive branch to LU either.

As for Falwell's comments on Hyles' death, that showed the type of man Jerry was despite how disappointed he had become with Jack. Jerry always took the high road with fellow believers whenever possible.

[belcherboy]

Take if from one who was raised IFB, and was indoctrinated with KJV(still my choice today) women cannot wear pants to church, that doesnt bother me at all , anyone divorced must be on their way to hell, these type of teaching from a IFB who said if you don't cross your t's and dot your i's the way he does, he or you cannot have fellowship with him.

Back in the 70's-80's, my church was one of the largest fundy churches in Michigan (organ on the left, piano on the right, suit and tie or your not welcome, girls with dresses near the ankle, anything with a beat is satanic, etc.). Through some financial problems/mistakes and our pastor having a MAJOR heart attack (from which he eventually died), our weekly attendance of around 1,000 collapsed to about 200. After barely squeaking through the late 80's and early 90's, we have made HUGE changes the past 10 years. We were a BBF (baptist bible fellowship) church, but began separating ourselves from them, which branded us as liberal christians (we have drums and guitars on stage, projectors for powerpoint, contemporary music, pastors that don't always wear ties, woman that wear pants, blended families that have been married by my pastor, we primarily use the KJV but have actually used other versions in sermons, etc.). The biggest BBF church in our city has a pastor whose son got divorced. After his son straightened out his life, he wanted to get married again. This pastor called up my pastor and asked if he would do the service because he wouldn't be able to do it. Needless to say, our church is flourishing and many of the KJV only, hard fundy churches are dying off. Many of the churches that refuse change, are filled with older people and have influenced very few new members to join. I think in the next 10 years you may see a dynamic shift in Baptist circles. It may already be occurring. Just look at the explosive growth of Liberty over the past decade, and many of the hard fundy churches in my area feel they are wrong or even wicked. The churches that believe like/support Liberty are the ones that are blowing up in terms of attendance and influence in their communities. Perhaps I'm being hard on these churches, but that is the perception I have from my area of the world.

[Just John]

I believe that was BJ II. But the third hasn't shown much of an olive branch to LU either.

As for Falwell's comments on Hyles' death, that showed the type of man Jerry was despite how disappointed he had become with Jack. Jerry always took the high road with fellow believers whenever possible.

BJ II was just not a very nice guy if you did not do things his way. Other things could be said but I will takes Jerry's way.

[Just John]

Take if from one who was raised IFB, and was indoctrinated with KJV(still my choice today) women cannot wear pants to church, that doesnt bother me at all , anyone divorced must be on their way to hell, these type of teaching from a IFB who said if you don't cross your t's and dot your i's the way he does, he or you cannot have fellowship with him.

Back in the 70's-80's, my church was one of the largest fundy churches in Michigan (organ on the left, piano on the right, suit and tie or your not welcome, girls with dresses near the ankle, anything with a beat is satanic, etc.). Through some financial problems/mistakes and our pastor having a MAJOR heart attack (from which he eventually died), our weekly attendance of around 1,000 collapsed to about 200. After barely squeaking through the late 80's and early 90's, we have made HUGE changes the past 10 years. We were a BBF (baptist bible fellowship) church, but began separating ourselves from them, which branded us as liberal christians (we have drums and guitars on stage, projectors for powerpoint, contemporary music, pastors that don't always wear ties, woman that wear pants, blended families that have been married by my pastor, we primarily use the KJV but have actually used other versions in sermons, etc.). The biggest BBF church in our city has a pastor whose son got divorced. After his son straightened out his life, he wanted to get married again. This pastor called up my pastor and asked if he would do the service because he wouldn't be able to do it. Needless to say, our church is flourishing and many of the KJV only, hard fundy churches are dying off. Many of the churches that refuse change, are filled with older people and have influenced very few new members to join. I think in the next 10 years you may see a dynamic shift in Baptist circles. It may already be occurring. Just look at the explosive growth of Liberty over the past decade, and many of the hard fundy churches in my area feel they are wrong or even wicked. The churches that believe like/support Liberty are the ones that are blowing up in terms of attendance and influence in their communities. Perhaps I'm being hard on these churches, but that is the perception I have from my area of the world.

Oh without a doubt. There are very few significant "Independent Fundamental Baptist" (IFB's) churches around any longer. The 60's and the 70's were the heydays for that movement. There was a big conference of such in 1978 in Detroit and was advertised in the Sword of the Lord. I think there like 22 pastors advertised that would be there, Jerry included. I would say that today at least half of them have "fallen" and left the ministry. The others have since passed or have left the movement.

I have been a member of Rick Warren's church out in CA for the last 21 years. He and Jerry were good friends for many, many years, long before Rick "got big". Get this, here is a guy who has sold close to 30 million copies of his book, the biggest selling hard copy book in America, and when he was young and discouraged, "accidentally" heard a sermon by Jerry on an LP about not giving up. Rick said it was a pivotal point in his ministry. Go figure. Jerry being an encourager again.

[bbrothers224]

I was at John R. Rice's funeral in Murfreesboro (at Franklin Road and Bill Rice Ranch). His wife was one of the coolest women you would ever meet. She treated my sister and I as adopted grandkids even though she already had a slew of her own.

Even though my dad was a TTU grad and he was pastoring GARBC churches, after initially joking about the Jerry First pins he became a supporter of Jerry in some of the IFB circles. Shortly after 1979 the separation extremists began forcing issues among the IFB crowds and started pushing KJVO pretty hard. Thankfully my dad saw the trouble brewing and stayed clear of the mess. But it still raised eyebrows in many of our circles when I headed to Liberty instead of one of the accepted schools. But I'm thrilled he let me go where I wanted to go. When I look back at what a disaster it could've been otherwise I cringe.

All that said, I'm disappointed that we have been shamed into no longer using the Fundy label.

I met John R. Rice a number of times over the years. The church I grew up in was pastored by a man named Bill Rice who was (and still is) married to Johanna Rice....one of JRRs daughters. They had 4 kids (Linda, Laurie, Robbie and Billy). Linda (married a TTU grad named Jim Bailey) and Laurie went to LBC. Robbie started out at LBC and finished up at TTU and Billy started out at TTU and finished up at LBC. I have many, many fond memories of making those trips to the Bill Rice Ranch. The facilities at BRR were not that much when compared with a Young Life camp, but we still had a great time. By the way...Billy Rice and his wife Julie live over in Forest , have 5 kids and go to TRBC.

[PeterParker]

I have been a member of Rick Warren's church out in CA for the last 21 years. He and Jerry were good friends for many, many years, long before Rick "got big". Get this, here is a guy who has sold close to 30 million copies of his book, the biggest selling hard copy book in America, and when he was young and discouraged, "accidentally" heard a sermon by Jerry on an LP about not giving up. Rick said it was a pivotal point in his ministry. Go figure. Jerry being an encourager again.

After watching a Charlie Rose interview with Warren, I thought he would be an interesting person to replace the "face" of evangelicals in the media vacated by Jerry (as their "go to guy" for a soundbite on an issue.) I thought he also might serve as an interesting person to fill the media "spokesmen" role that Jerry embodied for LU (if they were looking for a mouthpiece for the University), since Jr. by all accounts is content to make the deals and run things from a more behind the scenes role, while Jonathon tends the pulpit.

Warren occurred to me to be a very engaging personality who could have a reasonable discussion with all parties (christian or not) about cultural, social, theological subjects while not alienating them in the process. The talking heads seemed actually drawn to his easy nature, all the while he didn't waiver from the underlying message of the faith.

Just a side note, since his name was mentioned.

[kel varson]

I have been a member of Rick Warren's church out in CA for the last 21 years. He and Jerry were good friends for many, many years, long before Rick "got big". Get this, here is a guy who has sold close to 30 million copies of his book, the biggest selling hard copy book in America, and when he was young and discouraged, "accidentally" heard a sermon by Jerry on an LP about not giving up. Rick said it was a pivotal point in his ministry. Go figure. Jerry being an encourager again.

After watching a Charlie Rose interview with Warren, I thought he would be an interesting person to replace the "face" of evangelicals in the media vacated by Jerry (as their "go to guy" for a soundbite on an issue.) I thought he also might serve as an interesting person to fill the media "spokesmen" role that Jerry embodied for LU (if they were looking for a mouthpiece for the University), since Jr. by all accounts is content to make the deals and run things from a more behind the scenes role, while Jonathon tends the pulpit.

Warren occurred to me to be a very engaging personality who could have a reasonable discussion with all parties (christian or not) about cultural, social, theological subjects while not alienating them in the process. The talking heads seemed actually drawn to his easy nature, all the while he didn't waiver from the underlying message of the faith.

Just a side note, since his name was mentioned.

Personally, I like Warren. Thought his book was great. I do think think he should be more forthright and upfront when answering questions on TV. He trys to be to delicate at times and to me that comes across as compromising. Most of his interviews he is fine. But I remember on at least one occassion, where his answer was less than satisfying and came off sounding to ecumenical.

[flameshaw]

I have been a member of Rick Warren's church out in CA for the last 21 years. He and Jerry were good friends for many, many years, long before Rick "got big". Get this, here is a guy who has sold close to 30 million copies of his book, the biggest selling hard copy book in America, and when he was young and discouraged, "accidentally" heard a sermon by Jerry on an LP about not giving up. Rick said it was a pivotal point in his ministry. Go figure. Jerry being an encourager again.

After watching a Charlie Rose interview with Warren, I thought he would be an interesting person to replace the "face" of evangelicals in the media vacated by Jerry (as their "go to guy" for a soundbite on an issue.) I thought he also might serve as an interesting person to fill the media "spokesmen" role that Jerry embodied for LU (if they were looking for a mouthpiece for the University), since Jr. by all accounts is content to make the deals and run things from a more behind the scenes role, while Jonathon tends the pulpit.

Warren occurred to me to be a very engaging personality who could have a reasonable discussion with all parties (christian or not) about cultural, social, theological subjects while not alienating them in the process. The talking heads seemed actually drawn to his easy nature, all the while he didn't waiver from the underlying message of the faith.

Just a side note, since his name was mentioned.

Personally, I like Warren. Thought his book was great. I do think think he should be more forthright and upfront when answering questions on TV. He trys to be to delicate at times and to me that comes across as compromising. Most of his interviews he is fine. But I remember on at least one occassion, where his answer was less than satisfying and came off sounding to ecumenical.

How did you do in your last interview with the national press? Just kidding, but until we have walked in the shoes of some of these good men, it is difficult to know how we may have or should have answered a particular question.
It occured to me as well that RW would be a good face for the "progressive" type of Baptist ie. Liberty, etc. I am sure he will fill some of the void left by Jerry, but do not think he shares Jerry's enthusiasm for the spotlight. Let's just continue to hold J&J up before the Lord and that He will grant them the strength and wisdom to lead LU and TRBC to even greater heights than The Big Man would have ever dreamed possible.

[Just John]

After watching a Charlie Rose interview with Warren, I thought he would be an interesting person to replace the "face" of evangelicals in the media vacated by Jerry (as their "go to guy" for a soundbite on an issue.) I thought he also might serve as an interesting person to fill the media "spokesmen" role that Jerry embodied for LU (if they were looking for a mouthpiece for the University), since Jr. by all accounts is content to make the deals and run things from a more behind the scenes role, while Jonathon tends the pulpit.

Warren occurred to me to be a very engaging personality who could have a reasonable discussion with all parties (christian or not) about cultural, social, theological subjects while not alienating them in the process. The talking heads seemed actually drawn to his easy nature, all the while he didn't waiver from the underlying message of the faith.

Just a side note, since his name was mentioned.

Personally, I like Warren. Thought his book was great. I do think think he should be more forthright and upfront when answering questions on TV. He trys to be to delicate at times and to me that comes across as compromising. Most of his interviews he is fine. But I remember on at least one occassion, where his answer was less than satisfying and came off sounding to ecumenical.

How did you do in your last interview with the national press? Just kidding, but until we have walked in the shoes of some of these good men, it is difficult to know how we may have or should have answered a particular question.
It occured to me as well that RW would be a good face for the "progressive" type of Baptist ie. Liberty, etc. I am sure he will fill some of the void left by Jerry, but do not think he shares Jerry's enthusiasm for the spotlight. Let's just continue to hold J&J up before the Lord and that He will grant them the strength and wisdom to lead LU and TRBC to even greater heights than The Big Man would have ever dreamed possible.

Yes, it's true that Warren is probably not as media savvy and as media available as Jerry was. Jerry was loved by the media because he was not afraid to mix it up and was highly quotable. While I loved Jerry I do think we walk a fine line when we align Christianity too close to a political party, no matter which one. I know personally Rick is very politically conservative but will not let that get in the way of the gospel. I have to agree as salvation is more important even than abortion or homosexuality. Because if we change the hearts those changes will come. BTW.....Rick has spoken out on right to life and anti-homosexual issues but I used that as an extreme example. Salvation has to be pre-eminent. I think the man who will best fill the vacuum left by Jerry is Franklin Graham.

[Sly Fox]

It seems RW has spent most of his time publicly speaking on environmental issues up to this point when on the national stage.

[Just John]

It seems RW has spent most of his time publicly speaking on environmental issues up to this point when on the national stage.

I would say more the AIDS/HIV and foreign missions. I don't think the "environment" is a big issue to him but an issue that he thinks Christians should be good stewards. I don't much care myself. Gasp.