[Sly Fox]

I'm not sure how familiar some of you are with Southwide or the Bob Gray situation in Jacksonville. But Jerry, Towns and several other Liberty folk agreed to the conference some time ago which happened to be at Gray's old church in Jax. After the Gray scandal broke, the conference is still scheduled to be at the church in the middle of a crisis and Jerry is now caught in a middle of a very ugly situation.

Fighting Fundy Forum Thread of Jerry Coming to Southwide

For the record, I've been following the coverage of the Gray molestations and it makes my stomach turn. You Old Hags may remember Gray as the guy who claimed Jerry told him he was taking over PTL to make it All Fundy-All the Time back in the wake of the Jim & Tammy Faye scandal. Suffice it to say I can't say publicly what I think of this despicable excuse of a human being who preyed on children for decades while decrying everyone else's sins.

I am honestly interested in seeing how Jerry handles this situation. He hadn't cancelled and he has had plenty of time to do so. There will be great pressure for him to make some type of statement. Frankly I'd love to see him show compassion to the victims (of which there appear to be a great number) while decrying Gray's sins. The case is slowly proceeding through the court systems in Florida which coincidentally has a heightened attention to child molestation in light of the exposure of Mark Foley.

[grm]

Yeah, that's about as shocking and sad as it gets.... with a guy that really was VERY highly regarded in the independent Baptist circles.

[El Scorcho]

I was unaware of this situation, but you can bet I'll be following it closely now.

[Sly Fox]

For those unfamiliar, Southwide has been around a long time primarily based at Tennessee Temple. Lee Roberson was one of the most influential leaders of the Independent Baptist movement in the last 40-50 years. In recent years they have moved the conference around to other large IFB churches. The current pastor there in Jacksonville, Tom Messer, is moderately popular in IFB circles. When Jerry agreed to participate Im sure it appeared to be a rather harmless opportunity to connect with pastors of which he carries a long history. The events surrounding the exposure of Bob Gray's child-molesting history (and the possible coverup by Messer and others at the church) has created a mine field. Obviously Jerry has handled tough situations before. But this on has the potential to be disastrous. For the record, the church in Jax has not been supportive of theose making the allegations against Gray despite overwhelming evidence. That's why there are so many hostile folks hoping to use Jerry's appearance as a way to shed light on the situation.

[4everfsu]

I grew up hearing Bob Gray preach as he would come to our church in Tampa, he was one of those 1 hour sermon preachers, you could put you watch to it. I also know a pastor who knows this situation about Bob Gray and Tom Messer and told me that Tom knew about Bob Gray molestation and that is why Bob Gray was forced to resign his church and Bob then went to Germany to start a church. What I am saying is not something I would make up.

[Sly Fox]

That fits the scenario we see playing out right now. The Messer portion of the equation hasn't been proven. But it doesn't look good. Its particularly embarassing for us Baptists considering how high & mighty many of us were about the Catholic priest scandals a few years back. Personally I don't care you are, if you are molesting children I want to see beyond the maximum punishment. Our laws in America don't go far enough in punishing these perverts who destroy the lives of children and their families for years to come.

And yes, Gray "retired" a few years back from the church and then was sent as a missionary of the church to Germany. That sounds an awful lot like the Catholic priests being sent to different churches, doesn't it?

[grm]

To the best of our knowledge, this is at least, unusual, in Baptist circles. The scope of the Catholic problems, including the "no-marriage" system itself, is far broader. Of course, when it comes to the individual victims, scope makes no difference, and to that end, I agree with you completely.

[Sly Fox]

If there is one single case it is an outrage in my view. I've been able to witness firsthand in my family the longterm effects of this most insidious sin. That's why I am so passionate about it.

If you read the thread further, it indicates that Jerry has been offering some advice and support to the church in light of the Gray incident for some time now. I hope he is encouraging them to let the truth be told and to decry Gray for the slime he apparently is.

[kel varson]

Can someone give a full recap of this situation? I had heard nothing about Gray. Who exactly was Gray? I have heard of Messner and been to this church for conferences. This church was highly regarded by my father, a pastor, and he hadn't mentioned it to me. How long has this been going on down there?

Are we saying Gray molested people recently or 20-30 years ago. To what extent was it covered up?

[4everfsu]

Bob Gray was paster of Trinity Baptist church, found of its christian school and college. I believe he molested young girls while at the church, french kissed them in his office, who knows what else. Also been a report a boy was involved, at least that is the claim made. I have been told that when he was presented with these claims while pastor he resigned and went to Germany. He has already admitted to please of his involvment with the young girls once he was arrested. Tom Messer knew about the claims, I know the pastor who knows the pastor who called and told Tom about Bob. I know this preacher to be a honest man.

[Sly Fox]

Kel - The allegations are that he molested girls and boys over the past 50 years. Most of those coming forward are saying it happened to them 20-30 years ago. But looking back in returospect, its not hard to see the opportunities he had over the years.

For the record, Messer released a statement last week saying they didn't know the severity of the allegations until after the arrest and subsequent victims coming forward. How much Messer and the church/school board knew is subject to great debate right now. Regardless of their knowledge, the whole mess is heartbreaking for all those lives affected by this wolf in sheep's clothing.

[grm]

Agreed, and sorry to hear of however and whoever was affected by this
who was close to you. Yes - one case is way too many.

[Sly Fox]

Let me clarify, my family wasn't directly affected by Bob Gray. There were other evil men involved. But I'm passionate about the subject nonetheless.

[grm]

We all are... should be... must be. It's a tragedy, and yes, an outrage.

[El Scorcho]

So how did this pan out? Did anyone hear anything?

[Sly Fox]

Jerry is not up until Wednesday although you can see a who's who of LU connections over the next few days in Jax:

[ishy]

This website has a listing of the media statements about the issue:

http://www.sharperiron.org/category/chr ... /bob-gray/