A Sea Of Red

As announced in convo...

Liberty just received the results of it's first law students' bar exams. We had an 83% pass rate, which apparently is unheard of for new law schools. The average for first year law schools is somewhere in the neighborhood of 30-40%. The Virginia bar exam is particularly difficult, according to our Chancellor. Liberty rocked it.

So, congrats to Dean Staver, to everyone in the School of Law and especially those who just passed the bar!

The congrats does not belong to Staver as the students that took the bar were under Greene for most of their time at LU Law. While 83% is a very good passing score no matter how long the school has been around (my law school only had 85% and they have been around for 30 years), LU needs to make sure they stick with it and don't let those numbers fall. The ABA is looking for a reason to hit LU with penalties and the easiest way to do that is with bar passage rates. Keep the rates high and they will be good.

Side note, the Virginia bar, while not easy. is not one of the more difficult bars. Plus, the passage rate is a combination of the two states with the highest number of test takers. In LU's case, that was VA and FL. Florida has a reputation of being a difficult bar exam and from what I understand, they had a good passage rate in Florida which does say a lot.

vastrightwinger wrote:The congrats does not belong to Staver as the students that took the bar were under Greene for most of their time at LU Law.

Cram it. He's the current dean and his law school just got great news for their path to full accreditation. That deserves some congratulations being sent to him. You can take that kind of stuff elsewhere. Mmmkay, Tim?

Look, I have nothing against Staver, but the man who got them to where they are now, from nothing I might add, was Greene. Staver might be doing a good job expanding that but you can't discredit what Greene did to get them acceddited in the first place. Faster then anyone ever could have expected I might add.

Come on scorcy Greene does deserve a little her right...he laid down the foundation!

vastrightwinger wrote:Look, I have nothing against Staver, but the man who got them to where they are now, from nothing I might add, was Greene. Staver might be doing a good job expanding that but you can't discredit what Greene did to get them acceddited in the first place. Faster then anyone ever could have expected I might add.

I'm not saying Greene doesn't deserve any credit! I never even mentioned Greene.

All I'm saying is that they just got amazing news and you don't want to even let me congratulate the current dean of the school on it? That's ridiculous. To congratulate him is not to say that he did all of the work. It's just to say "That's great news for your school!"

Geez. This is the kind of crap that has me currently debating my continued participation on FlameFans. People here are getting way too touchy about everything.

All I was saying is that if you talk to a number of the law school grads, as I have, they will tell you that most of what they learned that helped them on the bar is thanks to what Greene did and the Prof's that Greene brought in. Many of which are not there anymore for various reasons.

I really don't think this is getting touchy. You voiced an opinion and I responded to it. My opinion happens to differ from yours. I have thought and prayed long and hard about transfering to Liberty Law. This is an issue that I am very familiar with and have strong feelings about. I am sorry if you feel I am being too touchy.

vastrightwinger wrote:All I was saying is that if you talk to a number of the law school grads, as I have, they will tell you that most of what they learned that helped them on the bar is thanks to what Greene did and the Prof's that Greene brought in.

I'm not an idiot. That might be all you're saying, but what you're implying is a lot more. Why can't I congratulate the current dean of the law school on good news for his school? That's ridiculous.

The politics of Liberty are going to kill this board. Mark my words.

I'm with you Fumble pass some over here


Just checking scorcy...I would give you a hard time like knuckle in the "in the red" thread...but i'm thinking that's not a good idea

vastrightwinger wrote: Many of which are not there anymore for various reasons.

Was it an "allow alcohol for law students" ultimatum?

I just hate it that every little bit of positive news gets tied up in Liberty politics and people's own personal agendas. It's turning into "All Negative, All the Time" around here and I hate it. I absolutely hate it.

vastrightwinger wrote:The congrats does not belong to Staver as the students that took the bar were under Greene for most of their time at LU Law. While 83% is a very good passing score no matter how long the school has been around (my law school only had 85% and they have been around for 30 years), LU needs to make sure they stick with it and don't let those numbers fall. The ABA is looking for a reason to hit LU with penalties and the easiest way to do that is with bar passage rates. Keep the rates high and they will be good.

Side note, the Virginia bar, while not easy. is not one of the more difficult bars. Plus, the passage rate is a combination of the two states with the highest number of test takers. In LU's case, that was VA and FL. Florida has a reputation of being a difficult bar exam and from what I understand, they had a good passage rate in Florida which does say a lot.

you beat me right to the point

Well then, congrats to Greene for everything he did.

Matt Staver: Please ignore today's results. We'll congratulate you on good news when it's the result of something you've done.

Everybody happy now?

El Scorcho wrote:I just hate it that every little bit of positive news gets tied up in Liberty politics and people's own personal agendas. It's turning into "All Negative, All the Time" around here and I hate it. I absolutely hate it.

No one can say FFdotcom is not fair and balanced...

...I enjoy the fact that dissenting opinions are welcome.

LUconn wrote:

vastrightwinger wrote: Many of which are not there anymore for various reasons.

Was it an "allow alcohol for law students" ultimatum?

Green was moving away from the LU theory.....Natural Law theory

also, Green was not admitting enough students....he wanted quality over quantity....

It is still great for the bar exams

Ok, I concede. Staver does in fact deserve credit. It was never my intention to pull all the credit away from him. He has done a great job continuing on with the program. All I was ever trying to say is that this first Bar class really owes a big piece of its success to Greene's devotion to the program. I want to see Liberty Law grow into a premier law school one day and I truley beleive that it is on its way to that. Staver is doing a great job of leading it down that path. I am sorry that I led you to beleive that I don't think Staver deserves any congrats or credit.

Fumblerooskies wrote:

El Scorcho wrote:I just hate it that every little bit of positive news gets tied up in Liberty politics and people's own personal agendas. It's turning into "All Negative, All the Time" around here and I hate it. I absolutely hate it.

No one can say FFdotcom is not fair and balanced...

...I enjoy the fact that dissenting opinions are welcome.

I agree....its what makes this message board so much fun....people have so many different opinions....there absolutely no reason to let these different opinions ruin the site for anybody

I love this so much...


EVERYONE deserves credit....this is great news!



LUconn you think your funny dont you

Fumblerooskies wrote:No one can say FFdotcom is not fair and balanced...

...I enjoy the fact that dissenting opinions are welcome.

I don't mind dissenting opinions, but I'm getting the feeling that this place is descending into the realms of every other LU message board that has come before it. In other words, I don't think it's quite so fair and balanced these days.

by the way...its great news for everybody involved...I don't think vasright was trying to start anything...he just thought Greene should get some credit...whats wrong with that??? crazy drama

vastrightwinger wrote:Ok, I concede. Staver does in fact deserve credit. It was never my intention to pull all the credit away from him. He has done a great job continuing on with the program. All I was ever trying to say is that this first Bar class really owes a big piece of its success to Greene's devotion to the program. I want to see Liberty Law grow into a premier law school one day and I truley beleive that it is on its way to that. Staver is doing a great job of leading it down that path. I am sorry that I led you to beleive that I don't think Staver deserves any congrats or credit.

I'm fine with that. I was really just trying to post a "Wow! Awesome news for the law school!" and it put me out that someone immediately wanted to turn this into a Greene vs. Staver thing, which I think everyone has already had enough of.

Sorry if I was too harsh, but this board is finding a way to bring it out of me.

well i didnt even see what VA put as his first line...I understand now...Greene did a great job while here...but theres a new Caption so he deserves most of the credit

El Scorcho wrote:Sorry if I was too harsh, but this board is finding a way to bring it out of me.

Yeah you were much happier when your post count was only a few thousand

El Scorcho wrote:

Fumblerooskies wrote:No one can say FFdotcom is not fair and balanced...

...I enjoy the fact that dissenting opinions are welcome.

I don't mind dissenting opinions, but I'm getting the feeling that this place is descending into the realms of every other LU message board that has come before it. In other words, I don't think it's quite so fair and balanced these days.

I think it is. You pretty much know who is of what opinion around here before they even say it. I get tired having to stick up for the school all the time on it's own board. So negative things that may get posted sometimes go unchallenged by myself. I think that happens with a lot of people. But then there are sometimes situations like this, where I have no idea what the "contraversy" is about, but I can tell there is some sort of underlying situation.