[flamesfilmguy]

OK so for my first Topic start i'm going with a serious one. so take it easy on me!

Is LU growing too fast?

I fear that the school is heading towards a scary problem. Too many students, not enough buildings,dorms or proffesors. Since my
freshman year (05-06') the freshman class has roughly doubled each year. so have the amount of dorms and the class sizes. This
mentality of "Lets keep growing and hope the buildings can keep up" is going to get us in trouble. Now, i realize that money can often
come unexpected or last minute, and please don't take this as a lack of faith, but is there a point where the we are expecting God to
bless us and the money will just come? I'm not a Bible scholar(sports management major) but i know there is somthing in the bible
about being good stewards of all that God has blessed us with. Honestly I think capping enrollment right now at around 11K for a few
years and spending more money on facilities, stockpiling profs, finding better ways to deal with the traffic (that makes me want to rip
my hair out everyday) and building better quality (aka tearing down the circle and bulding more hill "like" )dorms. I'm just a man with
an opinion but I would rather have the smaller prof/student ratio, nicer campus, better on campus living than to go to a school with 50
k and dorms and a campus thats falling apart. Now I will say that improvements to things such as repaving roads and spiffing up
athletic facilities is great and its making the campus more enjoyable to live on. But if the groth takes priority over the quality of living
and education and founding principles of the school whats the point?

[Purple Haize]

yes

[4everfsu]

No

[El Scorcho]

This mentality of "Lets keep growing and hope the buildings can keep up" is going to get us in trouble.

Please elaborate on what you mean. I'm not sure I've observed the mentality you speak of. Campus North has been under constant renovation since we purchased it, we've built plenty of new housing and renovated both the old senior dorms and the dorms on the hill. I'm jut not sure I follow. Can you explain?

Now, i realize that money can often come unexpected or last minute, and please don't take this as a lack of faith, but is there a point where the we are expecting God to bless us and the money will just come?

Are you aware of a money problem that the rest of us don't know about? The school is operating in the black for the first time in it's history. We're building an endowment. Our financial picture has never looked better, so far as I know. I'm not sure I understand this either.

yes

Big surprise.

[TDDance234]

Housing is not a problem. If you take all of the empty beds we have right now on campus, we have enough to make 6 empty Campus East dorms.

[blwall1416]

Housing is not a problem. If you take all of the empty beds we have right now on campus, we have enough to make 6 empty Campus East dorms.

...and we are still pushing & waiting for 182 more confirms by July 31. Those beds should fill up quick. This should push us over the 3,000 mark in new students this fall.

[LUconn]

Isn't Campus North enormous and not filled at all? And don't we have 2 empty floors of Demoss? The space is there but I guess the question is, is the money to make that space useable? Many folks would tell you no, and they may be right, I'm not in the know. But I do know LU is about to make at least $20 million in November from the sale of that land. So I would say if we needed the space, it could be ready.

[Hold My Own]

Isn't Campus North enormous and not filled at all? And don't we have 2 empty floors of Demoss? The space is there but I guess the question is, is the money to make that space useable? Many folks would tell you no, and they may be right, I'm not in the know. But I do know LU is about to make at least $20 million in November from the sale of that land. So I would say if we needed the space, it could be ready.

Your correct about Demoss, but Campus North is being utilized I'd venture to say up to 90% if not more. There is empty space (law school expansion, new salon, etc) so space at CN is pretty much gone.


Demoss is more of a parking problem than anything else. I think the mentality right now is dont focus the hill (Demoss) when you have a mountain (CN) There will come a time though

[PAmedic]

problems are being solved- thats the key. with growth comes growing pains (see: on-campus bussing/transportation issues)

thanks to certain people , bussing issue has been resolved. I fully expect roads, parking, and other space issues to be handled as well in the next few years.

growth is not only good- its IMPERITIVE. If you're not moving forward, you're falling behind.

[JDUB]

CN may be full, but isn't a lot of it used for storage instead of classrooms?

[LUconn]

that big tower is just a warehouse for JFM. But we all know that's going to change The question is where do we put all of the storage/warehouse stuff if we need that space?

[blwall1416]

problems are being solved- thats the key. with growth comes growing pains (see: on-campus bussing/transportation issues)

thanks to certain people , bussing issue has been resolved. I fully expect roads, parking, and other space issues to be handled as well in the next few years.

growth is not only good- its IMPERITIVE. If you're not moving forward, you're falling behind.

There will be FOUR bus routes this year. Red, Blue, Orange, & Green.

The Green route is huge - from Campus East, to Candler's Station, to River Ridge, to Ward's Crossing, back to campus.

[Purple Haize]

Are we growing too fast????/
SCAR and SORO and HAIZE would be PROOF that is true!!
MEDIC...........not so much

[flamesfilmguy]

My dearest Scorchy-
1st The mentality i speak of is the one that made the the 1st floors of the new east campus dorms unlivable a couple of years back. They were built too fast. And yes North campus has been under constant renovation I understand that but what about the first two floors of demoss? and what about the circle dorms that are basiclly trailers?(trust me i live in one.)


2nd- No i'm not aware of a money problem and i wasn't saying there was one i'm just saying from a students perspective when you have to go searching for a doner or plan a building before having the funding to actually finance the construction is a little off to me. I realize planning ahead is a good thing but here i'll use the example of that new road that was supposed to be built to relieve traffic on campus. It was supposed to be done in december or january of 06'-07 and it isnt done. I've heard they ran into problems with alot of stuff not just financing it. but you get my drift. Liberty village anyone? didn't that fall through because of funding? And is it really being a good steward of the money when the projects don't get finished? or they are of poor quality?

I could be completely wrong but I still stand by my idea of capping off enrollment at 11k for a few years. rip me all you want. but i see money going places and to things it probably shouldn't aka imax,gravity park,monogram(ouch i said it didn't I) etc. Yes things are being improved like roads that already exist on campus(hallelujah) and the sports facilities have been enhanced greatly (double Hallelujah) but yea. just my humble opinion on stuff. feel free to rip away. not that you need permission for that.

[JDUB]

i think that some of the stuff that gets built like the monogram has money specifically donated to it, so they can't really use that money for something else.
but i agree that the dorms need to be built better. everyone on campus knows that the dorms on east are thrown up too quick in terrible quality and have all kinds of problems, and that the circle trailers are terrible and need dozed.
i'm not sure if capping the enrollment is a good idea, but i think some changes should be made. and they probably will be, i completely trust the school leadership

[flamesfilmguy]

you are right Jdub. it will get done. and i'm not saying i don't trust the school leadership. It just scares me sometimes especilly with that east campus thing. my buddy couldn't shut his front door because the door frame was sagging. the reason? the builders did not allow enough time for the foundation to settle before actually starting the building.

[LUconn]

you kids whine too much, just think of it as a fun house.

[SuperJon]

My problem isn't with the dorms simply because I live off campus. My problem is with the academic side of things. We just let go of quite a few history professors and, if I'm not mistaken, some math teachers. My math professor last semester told me that the Math 121 classes (college algebra) this fall are going to be 150 students. The GenEd history classes are getting that big as well. There are some classes that can be huge (theology, GNED, humanities, New Testament, Old Testament, etc) but some classes there needs to be interaction with the professor (and math is one of those).

I can actually somewhat agree with our flimguy to cap enrollment simply for two years, just to have more time to get things done in a good way. That'd give time to get rid of the circle dorms and put something better there. Take a year, get rid of the trailers, and put three-story dorms there and you've instantly got 3-times as much room for housing for the next year, not counting new dorms built on Easts.

We all know traffic on campus is bad. The bus system is helping a lot, but the one main road through campus is congested daily. If you don't get to class 15-20 minutes early, there's no way to make it through campus. I know we're working on it, but if we just took a year to get everything (new access road, whatever) in place, I think it would be greatly beneficial.

The paintball fields are a great idea, much better than a gravity park or IMAX. We'll have that, really good intramural fields, and a great student center/workout facility. No one on campus can complain about those. If they do, they're idiots. The one thing that I think we need, especially since we have "segregated" dorms, is more "clubhouse" type buildings around campus. With roughly 8000 kids on campus, LaHaye and the East clubhouse just aren't enough. If we were to put a "clubhouse" building on the Hill, the Circle, and the Quads it would give kids a place to hang out instead of standing at windows, etc. I'm all for the male-only/female-only dorms. I just think that with the amount of kids on campus, more of the "clubhouse" buildings could be very beneficial.

We're moving the right way. North Campus is becoming great even though it's the most confusing building in the world to find where you're going. LaHaye is great. The bus system is going great. There are just a few things that, given one year of the enrollment staying the same, if they were done, would make our campus exponentially better.

[blwall1416]

Just to clarify:

CAMPUS NORTH

CAMPUS EAST

[SuperJon]

Just to clarify:

NORTH CAMPUS

EAST CAMPUS

Fixed it.

[blwall1416]

Just to clarify:

NORTH CAMPUS

EAST CAMPUS

Fixed it.

I wish it were that way!!!! Believe me.

[El Scorcho]

My dearest Scorchy-
1st The mentality i speak of is the one that made the the 1st floors of the new east campus dorms unlivable a couple of years back. They were built too fast.

Yes, they were. And the company that built them did a terrible job and went bankrupt shortly after that. We're currently involved with legal proceedings against them, if I'm not mistaken. There's only so much you can do about poor construction. They had adequate time to get it done, they just didn't take advantage of it. I was here and I helped install equipment in those dorms. I'm well aware of the problems with them.

And yes North campus has been under constant renovation I understand that but what about the first two floors of demoss? and what about the circle dorms that are basiclly trailers?(trust me i live in one.)

What about the first two floors of Demoss? Last I heard things over there were working just fine. The circle dorms suck (trust me I lived in one that was sliding into the ravine for three years), but stopping growth is no way to get those replaced. Not sure I understand that one. They're just old.

2nd- No i'm not aware of a money problem and i wasn't saying there was one i'm just saying from a students perspective when you have to go searching for a doner or plan a building before having the funding to actually finance the construction is a little off to me. I realize planning ahead is a good thing but here i'll use the example of that new road that was supposed to be built to relieve traffic on campus. It was supposed to be done in december or january of 06'-07 and it isnt done. I've heard they ran into problems with alot of stuff not just financing it.

I'm not sure I get that, either. You use the new road as an example of financial planning, but then say that the problems weren't just financial? What were the other problems? And if we're building things too fast to do them well, why complain if a project got put on hold because of problems? We use donors to help offset the costs of new construction. Most schools (even public ones) do this. That's why their buildings are all named after someone. If the school is operating in the black and a donor builds a building for us, isn't that more financially responsible than borrowing to build? I'm not saying we don't borrow to build, but I don't see the problem there.

Liberty village anyone? didn't that fall through because of funding?

One more time: Liberty Village was not a project of Liberty University, Thomas Road Baptist Church or Jerry Falwell Ministries. It was a project that was related only to Liberty in that they signed on Dr. Falwell to endorse and promote the village. When the company that started the project bilked people out of their money, we sued them. So did a lot of other people. We got the land not too long ago, but that was NOT our project. That's a misconception that just won't die.

I could be completely wrong but I still stand by my idea of capping off enrollment at 11k for a few years. rip me all you want. but i see money going places and to things it probably shouldn't aka imax,gravity park,monogram(ouch i said it didn't I) etc. Yes things are being improved like roads that already exist on campus(hallelujah) and the sports facilities have been enhanced greatly (double Hallelujah) but yea. just my humble opinion on stuff. feel free to rip away. not that you need permission for that.

Hey man, I don't want to rip you. I just don't see things exactly the same way. I'm all for more attention to quality and detail being paid on projects at LU. I'll never argue against that, and I agree that it sometimes can be a problem at LU. However, I do not think that those issue have arisen because of Liberty's growth spurt. All of the same things that you're talking about existed when I got here (pre-growth). Attention to detail was lacking, facilities weren't kept up as well as they should be (Hello, Vines Center), projects that were supposed to happen would get canceled for various reasons. I think the problems with quality and facility upkeep are being worked out now. Projects, however, get changed as challenges arise. So many things can get in the way (engineering problems, city approvals, money, contractor issues, etc.), but we work them out as best we can and move forward.

My Point: I'm very pro-growth at LU, because I remember how things were when I got here, and I see how things are now. When I got here, the school was small, tremendously in debt, on the verge of losing accreditation and lacking any real direction. Five and ten year master plans were put in place outlining a growth strategy, and ten years later the debt is gone, we're completely accredited (and have added new accredited schools as well) and we have completely clear goals for what we want the school to be. We may have growing pains, but those are much easier to deal with than the problems of old.

[4everfsu]

Take it from someone whose entire time at LBC was spent with classrooms at the old TRBC campus growth at LU is good. I think one thing you have going with growth right now is people are willing to send money to LU as they can see their money being put to use. If you told me that you was putting a cap on student growth, buildings etc then why would I want to send my money to you. As an investor I would not, just my way of thinking. I would want to send it to someone who I think is doing something now for God instead of two or three years down the road.
I have to admit SJ has a good ideal about various clubhouses around campus for students to meet and gather.

PS if you want to go to a school where growth is capped and not a problem attend Samford
I just had to do that lol

[flamesfilmguy]

I see where you are coming from scorchy. maybe its just me getting tired of hearing people whine on campus (i'm guilty too sometimes) that these projects like the monogram or Imax or whatever could be held off and the funding used for more immediate needs like roads and parking etc. oh and i meant top two floors of demoss and not bottom. My bad. I respect you pro-growth guys and what you want to see happen with the school. I want to see this school grow just as much as you. I just don't want anything to be sacrificed because of it. Being accredited doesn't neccisarily mean we are getting the quality education we pay for. like SJ said, the Academic side is the one i am most worried about. From what i've heard about whats going on this summer. The facilities and roads are getting worked on. which is great. MY point- we can disagree all we want. most of us can't really do anything but talk about it because we have little say in what decisions are made. I pray for this school constantly and I pray it continues on growing just not at the sacrifice of academics,facilities or principles(like recruiting shady athletes).

[JDUB]

The one thing that I think we need, especially since we have "segregated" dorms, is more "clubhouse" type buildings around campus. With roughly 8000 kids on campus, LaHaye and the East clubhouse just aren't enough. If we were to put a "clubhouse" building on the Hill, the Circle, and the Quads it would give kids a place to hang out instead of standing at windows, etc. I'm all for the male-only/female-only dorms. I just think that with the amount of kids on campus, more of the "clubhouse" buildings could be very beneficial.

thankyou. i've been saying that for over a year. we (people on campus) desperately need somewhere on campus to hang out. East clubhouse is great, but it only holds about 50 people. i think SJ's idea is great. put a lot more of those up. CN is good, but a lot of girls arent interested in going there b/c there not into sports. like i said, i love East clubhouse, and i think it would be great if they put several more of them up, at least like SJ said at the circle, hill, etc

We're moving the right way. North Campus is becoming great even though it's the most confusing building in the world to find where you're going. LaHaye is great. The bus system is going great. There are just a few things that, given one year of the enrollment staying the same, if they were done, would make our campus exponentially better.

CN is very confusing. i have to go a half hour early at the beginning of the semester to find my class, b/c i always get lost. one day i was just walking around and i got lost and didn't think i'd ever find an exit.

i think the cap thing could be a good idea, but maybe just one year. idk, but it would be nice if they got rid of the trailors and upgraded other facilities.