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Sexual Assaults at LU - Title IX Class Action Lawsuit

Posted: July 21st, 2021, 9:05 am
by badger74
Shows an unacceptable pattern of victim blaming. https://newsadvance.com/news/local/crim ... -top-story

Re: New lawsuit very troubling

Posted: July 21st, 2021, 9:34 am
by TH Spangler
Here's aonther one. Need to include it in your new thread.

https://wset.com/news/local/liberty-uni ... q-students

Re: New lawsuit very troubling

Posted: July 21st, 2021, 10:05 am
by badger74
I think those are very different things unless you claim that LU's version of religion is OK with rape.

Sexual Assaults at LU - Title IX Class Action Lawsuit

Posted: October 8th, 2021, 11:38 pm
by JK37
No.

And, no, thank you. You’re not my type.

Sexual Assaults at LU - Title IX Class Action Lawsuit

Posted: October 11th, 2021, 8:43 am
by Whatisthetruth

Re: The ongoing Jerry Falwell Jr thread

Posted: October 11th, 2021, 9:11 am
by paradox
I'm sure that there are sexual deviants in every institution in America. That would have to include the Seminary where Prior works. Do they not teach that all are sinners there?

Junior got lost. The situation is both sad and embarrassing. And he had to be removed. But I get the sense that some people are never going to get over this and will pursue it from every angle. Seems that the healthy thing would be to move on and concentrate on something more useful.

Re: The ongoing Jerry Falwell Jr thread

Posted: October 11th, 2021, 10:02 am
by BlueBlood
Question for those who have been around here longer than me - Does the twitter poster referenced above only post negatively about LU, or is this someone who is balanced and also posts positively about LU. I'm all for loving criticism and correction when needed. But I'm never a fan of constant negativity and piling on. Just trying to figure out which this is.

Re: The ongoing Jerry Falwell Jr thread

Posted: October 11th, 2021, 10:17 am
by Sly Fox
Once upon a time she used to post occassionally in this forum. She was a longtime and frankly well loved LU prof who was not afraid to call out the school leadership when needed. We have had few internal voices willing to show such courage over the years. I have not always agreed with her. In fact, more often than not we have seen issues from very different perspectives. But I have appreciated her voice on issues over the past few years ... including her very public exit to SEBTS. And I believe she knows well and good that sexual predators have long existed in seminaries like hers. I believe she genuinely still loves this university and wants to see it restored.

I typically agree with most of your thoughts, paradox. But in this case I am going to have to differ. We are at a seminal moment in our school's history where true change had the potential to occur in a positive sense. This is not a time to let old dogs lie. This is a time to get rabid dogs out of the house. There has been a tendency around LU circles to as Roger Goodell famously described: "Defend the shield". I do not believe that is Scriptural. God does not want us to cover up sin and crimes against our own to protect a brand. I believe God hates us covering up sin. When we have issues in our house we should be vigilant and valiant in exposing and displacing sin.

Re: The ongoing Jerry Falwell Jr thread

Posted: October 11th, 2021, 11:51 am
by BlueBlood
Thanks for the background Sly. I completely agree with your "This is a time to get rabid dogs out of the house" statement. Honestly, who can argue with that?

I am sometimes dismissive of some posters if every single post about LU is criticism. Despite obvious and public shortcomings, LU is still a special place and I'm instantly skeptical if someone can't say anything nice at all. LU has been such a blessing to my family and I'm not okay when someone appears to be hurling criticism after criticism and otherwise just piling on. That said, I'm also not okay with the rosey-glasses approach either - all has not been well and I'm really not sure what else lies beneath. I'm sure there is still work to do and I pray that corruption is property dealt with.

Re: The ongoing Jerry Falwell Jr thread

Posted: October 11th, 2021, 11:59 am
by stokesjokes
I always felt comforted by KSP’s presence at the university. She was someone I could point to and say “see, LU doesn’t silence all dissent.” And you knew to take her seriously because she was one of the most well-respected profs on campus and one of the few that had real cachet outside of the bubble.

She also seemed to always have a genuine love for the university in her writings, even when she was criticizing the administration.

KSP’s departure was a canary in the coal mine moment at LU.

Re: The ongoing Jerry Falwell Jr thread

Posted: October 11th, 2021, 12:14 pm
by Yacht Rock
She was often the professor people would point to when anyone would question LU's academic bonefides.

While I haven't personally interacted with her, we have many mutual friends and I've seen several LU supportive posts from her over the years.

I think she recognizes that now is a time to use the influence she has among many in the LU family to push for change.

The change we were promised months ago.

Re: The ongoing Jerry Falwell Jr thread

Posted: October 11th, 2021, 1:03 pm
by paradox
Sly Fox wrote: October 11th, 2021, 10:17 am Once upon a time she used to post occassionally in this forum. She was a longtime and frankly well loved LU prof who was not afraid to call out the school leadership when needed. We have had few internal voices willing to show such courage over the years. I have not always agreed with her. In fact, more often than not we have seen issues from very different perspectives. But I have appreciated her voice on issues over the past few years ... including her very public exit to SEBTS. And I believe she knows well and good that sexual predators have long existed in seminaries like hers. I believe she genuinely still loves this university and wants to see it restored.

I typically agree with most of your thoughts, paradox. But in this case I am going to have to differ. We are at a seminal moment in our school's history where true change had the potential to occur in a positive sense. This is not a time to let old dogs lie. This is a time to get rabid dogs out of the house. There has been a tendency around LU circles to as Roger Goodell famously described: "Defend the shield". I do not believe that is Scriptural. God does not want us to cover up sin and crimes against our own to protect a brand. I believe God hates us covering up sin. When we have issues in our house we should be vigilant and valiant in exposing and displacing sin.
Most are on the same page with regard to keeping only what is good and discarding the bad. The specific reference and context to KSP involve her veiled allegations along with other ambiguities. Let's just say that some people are gonna view her remarks as excessive and irresponsible.

Re: The ongoing Jerry Falwell Jr thread

Posted: October 11th, 2021, 1:43 pm
by LUconn
Only the "I didn't listen to the podcast, but..." crowd will read any of that as remotely excessive or irresponsible.

Re: The ongoing Jerry Falwell Jr thread

Posted: October 11th, 2021, 1:50 pm
by paradox
Why? There's only one way to view it if you listened the the podcast?

Re: The ongoing Jerry Falwell Jr thread

Posted: October 11th, 2021, 1:55 pm
by paradox
Would it be a crime to expect the musings of a literature prof to be a lot less shallow and a little more insightful on the subjects of human nature and tragedy? If literature teaches us anything, it teaches us that things are never as they should be.

Re: The ongoing Jerry Falwell Jr thread

Posted: October 11th, 2021, 1:56 pm
by LUconn
paradox wrote:Why? There's only one way to view it if you listened the the podcast?
Amongst the "home crowd" I would sadly say no. But a dozen Jane Does probably doesn't jolt them into reality either.

Re: The ongoing Jerry Falwell Jr thread

Posted: October 11th, 2021, 2:03 pm
by paradox
LUconn wrote: October 11th, 2021, 1:56 pm
paradox wrote:Why? There's only one way to view it if you listened the the podcast?
Amongst the "home crowd" I would sadly say no. But a dozen Jane Does probably doesn't jolt them into reality either.
Dodging the original subject? What about the excessive and irresponsible nature of her comments today? Not remotely possible? How so? Again, you would think a lit prof would have a little more insight into human nature. Predator would be a very shallow observation based on the information available.

Re: The ongoing Jerry Falwell Jr thread

Posted: October 11th, 2021, 2:07 pm
by stokesjokes
paradox wrote: October 11th, 2021, 1:55 pm Would it be a crime to expect the musings of a literature prof to be a lot less shallow and a little more insightful on the subjects of human nature and tragedy? If literature teaches us anything, it teaches us that things are never as they should be.
Yikes. Stumbling upon a single tweet in a years long conversation that KSP has had regarding the LU situation and dismissing her take as “shallow”?

And as Christians, aren’t we the ones who both hope and work for the redemption of all things?

Re: The ongoing Jerry Falwell Jr thread

Posted: October 11th, 2021, 2:07 pm
by rogers3
BlueBlood wrote: October 11th, 2021, 11:51 am Thanks for the background Sly. I completely agree with your "This is a time to get rabid dogs out of the house" statement. Honestly, who can argue with that?

I am sometimes dismissive of some posters if every single post about LU is criticism. Despite obvious and public shortcomings, LU is still a special place and I'm instantly skeptical if someone can't say anything nice at all. LU has been such a blessing to my family and I'm not okay when someone appears to be hurling criticism after criticism and otherwise just piling on. That said, I'm also not okay with the rosey-glasses approach either - all has not been well and I'm really not sure what else lies beneath. I'm sure there is still work to do and I pray that corruption is property dealt with.
The lack of tolerance for corruption has been an ongoing discussion for years. Like KSP, the people who do post on this regularly most likely have a very large place in their heart for the school, and particularly for the mission and the faculty. I think of this as one many opportunities to encourage accountability; for many, this is our only forum, but I hope that a few might have the opportunity to do more.

Re: The ongoing Jerry Falwell Jr thread

Posted: October 11th, 2021, 2:38 pm
by paradox
stokesjokes wrote: October 11th, 2021, 2:07 pm
paradox wrote: October 11th, 2021, 1:55 pm Would it be a crime to expect the musings of a literature prof to be a lot less shallow and a little more insightful on the subjects of human nature and tragedy? If literature teaches us anything, it teaches us that things are never as they should be.
Yikes. Stumbling upon a single tweet in a years long conversation that KSP has had regarding the LU situation and dismissing her take as “shallow”?

And as Christians, aren’t we the ones who both hope and work for the redemption of all things?
I'm fairly confident that people, in general, understand what I'm referring to, even if a few seem to miss it. The tweet is excessive and certainly not the most "redemptive" thing to do. I'm not gonna defend Junior/Becki.....but I'm not gonna defend Prior either.

Re: The ongoing Jerry Falwell Jr thread

Posted: October 11th, 2021, 7:51 pm
by Whatisthetruth
This is the kind of thing Jr would do when he wanted to squash dissent.


Re: The ongoing Jerry Falwell Jr thread

Posted: October 11th, 2021, 8:54 pm
by paradox
....ohhhhh....yes, of course.

I think that great lyricist from yesteryear, Andy Kaufmann, said it, most eloquently:

....I trusted you, I trusted you, I trusted you, I trusted you, I trusted you, I trusted you, I trusted you, I trusted you...Whoaaah, I trusted you, I trusted you, I trusted you...I trusted you, I trusted you

Re: The ongoing Jerry Falwell Jr thread

Posted: October 12th, 2021, 12:02 am
by Just John
Sly Fox wrote: October 11th, 2021, 10:17 am Once upon a time she used to post occassionally in this forum. She was a longtime and frankly well loved LU prof who was not afraid to call out the school leadership when needed. We have had few internal voices willing to show such courage over the years. I have not always agreed with her. In fact, more often than not we have seen issues from very different perspectives. But I have appreciated her voice on issues over the past few years ... including her very public exit to SEBTS. And I believe she knows well and good that sexual predators have long existed in seminaries like hers. I believe she genuinely still loves this university and wants to see it restored.

I typically agree with most of your thoughts, paradox. But in this case I am going to have to differ. We are at a seminal moment in our school's history where true change had the potential to occur in a positive sense. This is not a time to let old dogs lie. This is a time to get rabid dogs out of the house. There has been a tendency around LU circles to as Roger Goodell famously described: "Defend the shield". I do not believe that is Scriptural. God does not want us to cover up sin and crimes against our own to protect a brand. I believe God hates us covering up sin. When we have issues in our house we should be vigilant and valiant in exposing and displacing sin.
I ran into an old colleague today that has been working at LU now for several years and is currently in a position with absolute direct knowledge of some of these specific issues. This individual and knows of my love for the school. As we talked the following statements were made:

  • "The administration is not living up to the mission we claim, "Training Champions for Christ"
  • "The administration won't take ownership or accountability for things that have taken place"
  • "It's a political minefield"
  • "Prevo is irrelevant"
  • "Lamb isn't the only one that will go"
  • "I'm hearing very good things about Jonathan"
  • I asked if there were any bright lights. The response was, "Yes, by people I see everyday from janitorial services to some in the administration. I walked past an English class this morning and the door was open and the professor was praying with the class. It brought tears to my eyes. It reminded me of the school I graduated from and made me feel everything would be okay"
I don't think there are really any surprises here. We are stuck with what we have until we have a new board. The point was made that leaders are everywhere, appointed or otherwise.

On a very positive note, I went to the alumni concert at TRBC Friday night. It was very well done. It wasn't just an entertaining three hours, although it was that, but it was also a very worshipful and inspirational time. A real honor to Jerry Sr. Nice tributes to Doug Oldham and David Randlett if you are old enough to have been around when they were. It should be available on the LU youtube channel.

Re: The ongoing Jerry Falwell Jr thread

Posted: October 12th, 2021, 8:57 am
by Whatisthetruth
Just John wrote: October 12th, 2021, 12:02 am
Sly Fox wrote: October 11th, 2021, 10:17 am Once upon a time she used to post occassionally in this forum. She was a longtime and frankly well loved LU prof who was not afraid to call out the school leadership when needed. We have had few internal voices willing to show such courage over the years. I have not always agreed with her. In fact, more often than not we have seen issues from very different perspectives. But I have appreciated her voice on issues over the past few years ... including her very public exit to SEBTS. And I believe she knows well and good that sexual predators have long existed in seminaries like hers. I believe she genuinely still loves this university and wants to see it restored.

I typically agree with most of your thoughts, paradox. But in this case I am going to have to differ. We are at a seminal moment in our school's history where true change had the potential to occur in a positive sense. This is not a time to let old dogs lie. This is a time to get rabid dogs out of the house. There has been a tendency around LU circles to as Roger Goodell famously described: "Defend the shield". I do not believe that is Scriptural. God does not want us to cover up sin and crimes against our own to protect a brand. I believe God hates us covering up sin. When we have issues in our house we should be vigilant and valiant in exposing and displacing sin.
I ran into an old colleague today that has been working at LU now for several years and is currently in a position with absolute direct knowledge of some of these specific issues. This individual and knows of my love for the school. As we talked the following statements were made:

  • "The administration is not living up to the mission we claim, "Training Champions for Christ"
  • "The administration won't take ownership or accountability for things that have taken place"
  • "It's a political minefield"
  • "Prevo is irrelevant"
  • "Lamb isn't the only one that will go"
  • "I'm hearing very good things about Jonathan"
  • I asked if there were any bright lights. The response was, "Yes, by people I see everyday from janitorial services to some in the administration. I walked past an English class this morning and the door was open and the professor was praying with the class. It brought tears to my eyes. It reminded me of the school I graduated from and made me feel everything would be okay"
I don't think there are really any surprises here. We are stuck with what we have until we have a new board. The point was made that leaders are everywhere, appointed or otherwise.

On a very positive note, I went to the alumni concert at TRBC Friday night. It was very well done. It wasn't just an entertaining three hours, although it was that, but it was also a very worshipful and inspirational time. A real honor to Jerry Sr. Nice tributes to Doug Oldham and David Randlett if you are old enough to have been around when they were. It should be available on the LU youtube channel.
Jonathan will need to explain at some point why he didn't do anything about the Jane Doe emails and why he has been silent. He also had knowledge of Jr's dealings but kept silent. These are not pleasant facts but it is what it is.

The BOT and administration know this isn't going away and more bombshells are coming, hold on to your hat.

Re: The ongoing Jerry Falwell Jr thread

Posted: October 12th, 2021, 9:04 am
by ballcoach15
Whatisthetruth wrote: October 11th, 2021, 7:51 pm This is the kind of thing Jr would do when he wanted to squash dissent.

What is a Temporary Student Group, and what is their purpose/mission ?