[ballah09]

We’re basically GCU disguised as a nonprofit and what is sad, it’s probably going to take for us to lose our nonprofit status to get new leadership.

[NeoFlame]

So far GC has been pretty solid and fair IMO. This last episode was full of slant though. You can't make Liberty sound like a for-profit diploma factory when not bringing up default/graduation rates. If you want to paint LU with that broad brush, have at it -- but at least bring some statistics to the argument.


...and don't get me started on that student and the debt she accumulated. $100k in student loans from only online? Come on...

[Whatisthetruth]

[Jonathan Carone]

The pregnancy story at the beginning of Episode 5 puts a voice to the way we all knew pregnant girls are treated at Liberty. You’d think we would be able to show people grace in their hardest times.

[Whatisthetruth]

The pregnancy story at the beginning of Episode 5 puts a voice to the way we all knew pregnant girls are treated at Liberty. You’d think we would be able to show people grace in their hardest times.

I am not sure what part of the episode is more disturbing Jonathan. The story about the pregnant student, how LUPD was run as Jr's personal Gestapo-style agency, censorship, pulling student scholarships for writing things Jr didn't like, or what the provost (Ron Hawkins) was saying to other employees about Emily Heady. The way I heard it told back in the day was she was basically 'blackmailed' by Hawkins and Randy Smith (COO). Unless she quit and signed an NDA they would spread that story.

[Jonathan Carone]

I hadn’t gotten that far when I posted that. The dictatorial way Jerry ran the place was not only wrong, it was stupid.

[Just John]

The pregnancy story at the beginning of Episode 5 puts a voice to the way we all knew pregnant girls are treated at Liberty. You’d think we would be able to show people grace in their hardest times.

I think this is an indictment on many in the our conservative Evangelical world. I would think the shame and fear of punishment cause many to consider or follow through on abortion. A Care Net survey in 2015 showed 43% of women who had an abortion attended church monthly or more at the time of the abortion, yet only 7% discussed their decision with anyone at church. It's one of those sins you can't hide so it's easier to judge.

I remember the book Sr. co-authored with a young lady who had an unwed pregnancy. They wrote alternating chapters. It wasn't judgemental however and provided hope and practical ways of support both for the women and the child. I cannot find it online however.

[Sly Fox]

Just caught episode 5. Not much revelatory in this edition. But that doesn't mean there aren't heartbreaking stories included. Having Emily's story involved is particuarly disheartening. She should be LU provost today and sadly remains persona non grata on campus in spite of the near universal respect she has from most of the faculty.

For the record, the censorship deal is much ado about nothing IMHO. I spent two decades in the professional journalism game and censorship both overt and covert is a part of the business model. These kids running to tell their stories of censorship to reporters who are censored themselves every day is ironic on many levels.

[ballah09]

I absolutely agree on Emily. Sickening how they treated her considering she got us the LUCOM grant. Without her, there’s no LUCOM. Such a shame she loves the school and would’ve been a great president but instead we got Prevo adding his buddies to leadership positions.

[thepostman]

For the record, the censorship deal is much ado about nothing IMHO. I spent two decades in the professional journalism game and censorship both overt and covert is a part of the business model. These kids running to tell their stories of censorship to reporters who are censored themselves every day is ironic on many levels.

I know your right here but it still doesn't make it right.

[Jonathan Carone]

Let’s be okay with censoring our students because it happens everywhere!

[stokesjokes]

For me, it’s one of those that wouldn’t be a big deal if it was on its own. As part of the larger narrative of a culture of fear, silence, and pursuit of political power, it’s troubling.

I had the same thought for the report that the city examiner had made safety recommendations that included call boxes that we ignored- when our guy says “well, we didn’t agree because everyone has cell phones, etc…” I can see where he’s coming from and I’m sure other universities take the same approach, but in the bigger picture of how we’ve handled sexual assaults on campus, it’s a problem.

[thepostman]

Let’s be okay with censoring our students because it happens everywhere!

Apparently so.

[Purple Haize]

Let’s be okay with censoring our students because it happens everywhere!

Apparently so.

Supervision isn’t the same as Censorship. Unless you think they should publish whatever they want. Which no one any where is allowed to do

[paradox]

It wouldn't make sense to have a university publication undermine itself in a counterproductive way by publishing things that would not be in the best interest of the organization. No organization, that I know of, does that.

A far weightier issue would be the political stuff. There shouldn't be any suppression there. it's only politics. It's opinion. It's not your faith. Nor does it define your faith. Your core spiritual beliefs and how you live your life is what should matter. And if "the Faith" matters most, then we should be able to disagree and tolerate one another politically.

The thing with restraining political clubs is ridiculous. There's no excuse for this. Libertarian, Republican, Democrat, Fabian, Socialist...these are political positions..none of them are Christian. And a Christian can hold to any of these as long as he/she doesn't compromise "the Faith."

[Jonathan Carone]

There’s a giant gulf between “we don’t publish things harmful to the university” and “Jerry has to approve everything to make sure he’s okay with it.” We should all be smart enough to know that.

[paradox]

It goes without saying. Junior was very unprofessional in several key areas.

[Purple Haize]

There’s a giant gulf between “we don’t publish things harmful to the university” and “Jerry has to approve everything to make sure he’s okay with it.” We should all be smart enough to know that.

But your statement doesn’t remotely convey that

[Jonathan Carone]

Given the conversations we’ve had around here over more than a decade of talking about this, I assumed it was a given.

Also - this episode specifically talked about Jerry censoring things that had nothing to do with the school, firing kids who questioned Trump, and even allowing administrators to edit and approve content any time they were mentioned. That type of censorship is well above the typical protect the brand that is accepted as normal.

[Jonathan Carone]

I think this is an indictment on many in the our conservative Evangelical world. I would think the shame and fear of punishment cause many to consider or follow through on abortion.

This is my biggest issue with that story. If we’re going to be pro-life, we can’t shame and shun women when they get pregnant. Yes it was out of wedlock and sex outside of marriage is outside of God’s design for sex, but if we truly want to show people the love and grace of Jesus, we should be the group willing to help the most when unwed pregnancies happen.

This story could’ve had such a different ending. Imagine if this now 23-year-old mom could look back at her time at Liberty and acknowledge she made a mistake but boast that Liberty cared for her through the entire pregnancy, shepherding her and her future husband through it all in a way that reflected Jesus. That’s a powerful testimony of our faith her and her husband would never forget and one her child would grow up hearing. From day one that kid would know he/she was cared for and loved by Jesus because of the care and love his/her parents received.

But no. We shamed her, broke her trust, and forced her into a shotgun marriage under the threat of expulsion.

[NeoFlame]

I think the slant continued with the girls story. There really wasn't any mention of an option to live off campus which I'm sure happened. Heck Nasser got some heat for his willingness to try to reform & rehabilitate. The GP home was just an option which I'm sure LU/TRBC paid for like the do for the others -- but no mention of that. I'm old enough to remember a MBB era a decade before her (when LU was more strict) when the front row was full of baby mama's! I knew of a few others who had to move off campus for this reason (and didn't have the power of a coach to help with it). One-off stories like this are kind of hard to generalize on but I see that isn't stopping some of you! I know some people who got kicked out for weed while others only got reps for it. I'm now realizing I probably should have chose better friends in college.

The Mark DeMos story failed to mention he was literally getting paid by the biggest anti-Trumper there is in politics.

The LUPD/HR criticism is well deserved and I'm not aware of anything additional that could refute any of it. This is and was asking for trouble and the outcome we now know.

The Liberty Champion stuff -- I would be willing to bet any one who would like that you would find similar control at other private universities that are along the same age as LU. Didn't Baylor buy a local newspaper just so they couldn't write negative articles any more? Good luck for their own paper putting something out negative.

**DISCLAIMER** I'm not trying to be Ball Coach here -- I like him but he can't really call a spade a spade at times -- He is who he is and we all know that about him -- I respect that. I just like fair journalism though -- present all aspects and let the well-informed minds come to a conclusion. It would make the aspects of how LU's structure is a mess, nepotism, and all factual wrong-doing stick a lot more. Now GC is getting to the point where leaders at LU can present additional facts to parts of their narrative to dispute everything as a whole as fake news blah blah blah.

[paradox]

The Mark DeMos story failed to mention he was literally getting paid by the biggest anti-Trumper there is in politics.

It really shouldn't matter. Petty distinctions within the GOP shouldn't be causing this kind of division within the LU hierarchy.

[Jonathan Carone]

She mentioned the Godparent Home but said she wouldn’t be able to communicate or see the baby’s father/her boyfriend. That made it not really an option.

[TH Spangler]

The Mark DeMos story failed to mention he was literally getting paid by the biggest anti-Trumper there is in politics.

It really shouldn't matter. Petty distinctions within the GOP shouldn't be causing this kind of division within the LU hierarchy.

Haven't listen to the podcast, just reading your back and forth here.

Less a "petty GOP distinction" and more a doctrinal one. The Moral Majority votes well together but doesn't worship together. One group has extra books in their canon. Not a big deal in the voting booth but one at the alter.

[NeoFlame]

The Mark DeMos story failed to mention he was literally getting paid by the biggest anti-Trumper there is in politics.

It really shouldn't matter. Petty distinctions within the GOP shouldn't be causing this kind of division within the LU hierarchy.

It matters from a journalistic standpoint. GC started on the path of being the best option for hearing all of the facts regarding all of the nonsense.

Regarding politics -- you are 100% right. Politics may very well be the reason Liberty is the household name it is today, but it also ruined what we all love. I'm tired of it all and hope that is in our past too.

Last night you mentioned something about DeMoss & Williams family and you are 100% correct we wouldn't be in this position without them -- Make no mistake what was done to Mark was completely wrong and petty. Liberty owed Mark and his family far far far better than that. At the very least handle it privately if the two couldn't find a way to come to an agreement. This was one of the stories that hurt my soul when I heard it. Similar to when the Dr. Godwin drama became public -- these people have done too much for Liberty to be treated that way.

She mentioned the Godparent Home but said she wouldn’t be able to communicate or see the baby’s father/her boyfriend. That made it not really an option.

Well, this was the choice she made from the options she was given. The GPH isnt and was never intended to be for girls in her particular situation. In fact, knowing that I was shocked the GPH was even offered. That immediately came across to me as LU actually trying to do this girl a favor because she likely couldn't afford off campus housing and they wanted to try to do something for her rather than doing nothing. It was a mistake for several reasons for the GPH to be offered in this situation. They can't break the rules for one girl while making all of the others all living in a small home follow them but it sounded like someone at LU wanted to help.

One time I stayed at a hostel in Miami -- it was all I could afford and there were certain things we couldn't do "NO POLITICS OR RELIGION." I followed them because I didn't want to pay for a night at the Fountain Blue. Looking back I should have just hung around the pool until I found someone to pay for it -- or offer me a business deal of a lifetime.