This is the definitive place to discuss everything that makes life on & off campus so unique in Central Virginia.

Moderators: jcmanson, Sly Fox, BuryYourDuke

User avatar
By Jonathan Carone
Posts
#624666
stokesjokes wrote: April 9th, 2021, 10:12 am Yeah, let us young folks handle this one :wink:

There’s two things I think zoomers crave from a speaker:

1. Authenticity
2. Depth

Jonathan’s style is borne out of an older generation. It’s smooth and rehearsed. You can even hear it in his cadence when he’s preaching. For the younger folks, this can come across as inauthentic (please hear me, I’m not saying it is inauthentic).

On the 2nd point, it’s hard to say. I know there’s a sense in which when you’re preaching to a room of a few thousand, you have to go lowest common denominator to make sure no one’s left out, so grain of salt on this, but I’ve never been particularly challenged by Jonathan’s sermons nor have I found them to be particularly theologically rich. That’s something a room full of zoomers , especially college students at a Christian college, are going to crave.
I added a couple words there.

I honestly have no opinion on Jonathan as a speaker. I haven't listened to him in probably a decade. I know as a pastor, I've heard nothing but good things about him.

The pendulum in church is always swinging. In the early/mid 2000s we started the swing to a "cool church" model (ie stage designs, flashy lights, 'relevant' teaching, etc). That peaked around 2012/2013 and you've seen a move back towards a more stripped down, "honest" approach. Things can still be done well, but if it's too produced or too slick, the younger generations are checking out. They've seen too many flashy church leaders revealed as frauds that they don't trust that style.

All that said - I think one of the absolute worst things we could do is implement a church requirement. Our students already have convo, prayer groups, and mandatory theology classes. To add yet another spiritual requirement would result in more negative than positive.

Our students need a safe place to explore their faith. Liberty should be the place they're encouraged to ask every question they have about Christianity to truly work out their faith. That can't happen when you're requiring kids to go to church on Sunday, especially in light of all the other things they already have to do.
stokesjokes liked this
User avatar
By LU 57
Posts
#624667
thepostman wrote: April 9th, 2021, 9:49 am With all due respect ballcoach, you aren't exactly my go to source on how to minister to young people.

It would be interesting to hear what current students think about this development.
My daughter is disappointed that Nasser is leaving. That said, I think most students are out of the loop on what is going on in the background.

Frankly, I only know what you guys post and what I see in the media.
thepostman liked this
User avatar
By LU 57
Posts
#624668
Jonathan Carone wrote: April 9th, 2021, 10:33 am
stokesjokes wrote: April 9th, 2021, 10:12 am Yeah, let us young folks handle this one :wink:

There’s two things I think zoomers crave from a speaker:

1. Authenticity
2. Depth

Jonathan’s style is borne out of an older generation. It’s smooth and rehearsed. You can even hear it in his cadence when he’s preaching. For the younger folks, this can come across as inauthentic (please hear me, I’m not saying it is inauthentic).

On the 2nd point, it’s hard to say. I know there’s a sense in which when you’re preaching to a room of a few thousand, you have to go lowest common denominator to make sure no one’s left out, so grain of salt on this, but I’ve never been particularly challenged by Jonathan’s sermons nor have I found them to be particularly theologically rich. That’s something a room full of zoomers , especially college students at a Christian college, are going to crave.
I added a couple words there.

I honestly have no opinion on Jonathan as a speaker. I haven't listened to him in probably a decade. I know as a pastor, I've heard nothing but good things about him.

The pendulum in church is always swinging. In the early/mid 2000s we started the swing to a "cool church" model (ie stage designs, flashy lights, 'relevant' teaching, etc). That peaked around 2012/2013 and you've seen a move back towards a more stripped down, "honest" approach. Things can still be done well, but if it's too produced or too slick, the younger generations are checking out. They've seen too many flashy church leaders revealed as frauds that they don't trust that style.

All that said - I think one of the absolute worst things we could do is implement a church requirement. Our students already have convo, prayer groups, and mandatory theology classes. To add yet another spiritual requirement would result in more negative than positive.

Our students need a safe place to explore their faith. Liberty should be the place they're encouraged to ask every question they have about Christianity to truly work out their faith. That can't happen when you're requiring kids to go to church on Sunday, especially in light of all the other things they already have to do.
I do not see the church requirement ever coming back due to VTAG. That battle goes back to my days in the early 90s.
Jonathan Carone liked this
By ballcoach15
Posts
#624669
As for preaching styles, too many preachers simply give a 20-30 minute Sunday School message/class, rather than actually preach.
Tell the lost sinners in the congregation than unless the repent and accept Jesus as their saviour, they are going to hell.
And have a good invitation hymn, don't just sing one or two verses of some so called praise and worship song.
By stokesjokes
Posts
#624670
I’m not gonna touch the rest of your post, but just remember, Ballcoach, those things you think of as “invitation hymns” were once the modern praise and worship songs of their day.
phoenix liked this
User avatar
By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#624671
ballcoach15 wrote: April 9th, 2021, 10:41 am As for preaching styles, too many preachers simply give a 20-30 minute Sunday School message/class, rather than actually preach.
Tell the lost sinners in the congregation than unless the repent and accept Jesus as their saviour, they are going to hell.
And have a good invitation hymn, don't just sing one or two verses of some so called praise and worship song.
You got this from your Seminary training where?
rtb72 liked this
User avatar
By Jonathan Carone
Posts
#624672
I hate when you guys quote ballcoach, cause then I actually have to read his nonsense.

My only response would be a quote from Elmer Towns:

Methods are many.
Principles are few.
Methods may change.
Principles never do.

It's 2021. The methods from 1947 aren't going to work anymore.
PAmedic, rogers3, thepostman and 2 others liked this
User avatar
By TH Spangler
Registration Days Posts
#624675
stokesjokes wrote: April 9th, 2021, 10:18 am
ballcoach15 wrote: April 9th, 2021, 10:04 am Members of this message board pay more attention to what's "going on", than the students, in my opinion. The students I talk with, never mention it.
Do you ask them their thoughts? The ones I know are paying attention.
The ones I know share very few of your views. In fact most don't care for this forum.
By stokesjokes
Posts
#624677
TH Spangler wrote: April 9th, 2021, 11:17 am
stokesjokes wrote: April 9th, 2021, 10:18 am
ballcoach15 wrote: April 9th, 2021, 10:04 am Members of this message board pay more attention to what's "going on", than the students, in my opinion. The students I talk with, never mention it.
Do you ask them their thoughts? The ones I know are paying attention.
The ones I know share very few of your views. In fact most don't care for this forum.
I can imagine we swim in different circles
User avatar
By TH Spangler
Registration Days Posts
#624681
stokesjokes wrote: April 9th, 2021, 11:37 am
TH Spangler wrote: April 9th, 2021, 11:17 am
stokesjokes wrote: April 9th, 2021, 10:18 am

Do you ask them their thoughts? The ones I know are paying attention.
The ones I know share very few of your views. In fact most don't care for this forum.
I can imagine we swim in different circles
I know dozens of alumni from 1984 to 2012. I know two freshman and several families with children there now. Their views on issues and scripture are very similar. They all attended conservative leaning church's, men pastors and deacons, no same sex marriages etc. The ones I know are glad it looks like Liberty will be moving back to the Liberty Doc envisioned. They love Johnathan.

Most them think we, on here (me included), are bunch of blowhards with to much time on our hands. :lol: They see this forum as a place for those more liberal or with an axe to grind to go public. The excellent, hard work Jon does on the main site goes up in flames here :cry: .
User avatar
By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#624686
Jonathan Carone wrote: April 9th, 2021, 11:06 am I hate when you guys quote ballcoach, cause then I actually have to read his nonsense.

My only response would be a quote from Elmer Towns:

Methods are many.
Principles are few.
Methods may change.
Principles never do.

It's 2021. The methods from 1947 aren't going to work anymore.
For now on imma quote him just to irritate you. :D :D :D
By stokesjokes
Posts
#624692
It just speaks to how insulated we can get. My impression has always been that this forum is pretty conservative vs my own Liberty community. I’m sure part of it is age cohorts too. I’m sure some of you old geezers who had to wear ties to class have a different view of what’s conservative than I do.
User avatar
By thepostman
Registration Days Posts
#624693
TH Spangler wrote: April 9th, 2021, 2:45 pm
thepostman wrote: April 9th, 2021, 2:18 pm Your post certainty helps explain a lot of your other posts if you are of the belief that this is some kind of liberal hotbed.
Woke hotbed :lol:
If you truly believe that, then you're either not paying attention, reading into what people say based on pre-concieved notions, or just trolling. Or maybe all 3.
By rogers3
Registration Days Posts
#624701
TH Spangler wrote: April 9th, 2021, 2:45 pm
thepostman wrote: April 9th, 2021, 2:18 pm Your post certainty helps explain a lot of your other posts if you are of the belief that this is some kind of liberal hotbed.
Woke hotbed :lol:
Sorry to inform you of this, TH, but I'm sure that the kids you mention are like so many others at Liberty... They only know how to spout off about what they have heard at home for years. I feel that fundamentalists certainly have a long way to go when it comes to thinking for themselves. They are a little like the historic Catholics, who actually only knew what was said to them... It just comes from boneheads like Hannity or Limbaugh (RIP) instead of a Latin speaking priest.
Just John liked this
User avatar
By Just John
Registration Days Posts
#624708
TH Spangler wrote: April 9th, 2021, 1:30 pm I know dozens of alumni from 1984 to 2012. I know two freshman and several families with children there now. Their views on issues and scripture are very similar. They all attended conservative leaning church's, men pastors and deacons, no same sex marriages etc. The ones I know are glad it looks like Liberty will be moving back to the Liberty Doc envisioned. They love Johnathan.

Most them think we, on here (me included), are bunch of blowhards with to much time on our hands. :lol: They see this forum as a place for those more liberal or with an axe to grind to go public. The excellent, hard work Jon does on the main site goes up in flames here :cry: .
How many LU students do you think come from a church with a female senior pastor? (Not counting "husband and wife pastors" that are often the case at conservative charismatic and black churches). How many LU students do you think come from churches that perform same-sex marriages? I promise you it's less than 1%. I'm much more concerned about some of the people who spoke in convo due to Jerry and certain connections like Paula White.
ballcoach15 liked this
By JK37
Registration Days Posts
#624714
I’m with you on the position of a woman as pastor/bishop, BC. But biblically you can’t say there are no believers in such a church.
User avatar
By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#624717
ballcoach15 wrote: April 10th, 2021, 6:18 am A so called church with a woman pastor isn't really a church. It's just a building where non believers gather.

1 Corinthians 14:34-35
Guess you had no Children’s Church leader who was female? Sunday School Teacher? Choir Director?
Easy with your proclamations there Judgy McJudge Pants
User avatar
By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#624722
@ballcoach15 I feel sorry for your Sunday School class. Because judging by the Scriptures YOU cited any woman not silent in church is...well...not good

34 zthe women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but ashould be in submission, as bthe Law also says. 35 If there is anything they desire to learn, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church.

Sunday school is at Church
Choir is at Church
Children’s Church is at Church
VBS is at church.
The COVID-19 Megathread

Just go ahead and wear an official surgical mask o[…]

ASUN Tournament

You must have had a decent English prof. at LU. […]

Maricopa County audit

Things are heating up in AZ and it's not even summ[…]

I don't know all that much about the place, but […]