This is the definitive place to discuss everything that makes life on & off campus so unique in Central Virginia.

Moderators: jcmanson, Sly Fox, BuryYourDuke

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By Just John
Registration Days Posts
#624151
ballah09 wrote: March 27th, 2021, 12:02 pm Prevo was an enabler who allowed Jr to do his thing. Now we're seeing him bring his guys in while keeping the old leadership around. You may disagree with SAVE71's politics or motives but they've been on point keeping up on the leaderships moves and investigations.

Heck, Prevo just put his good friend Vines on the executive board and he's no saint either.

Liberty is continuing on a downward path.
Jerry Vines knew about Jr's drinking problem for years.
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By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#624155
thepostman wrote: March 27th, 2021, 9:46 pm That is what I kind of thought too, so why bring him back? It just is bizarre.
Because if there is a wrong decision to be made the LU Board will make it. Unfortunately that has been proven unequivocally and beyond all doubt
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By flameshaw
Registration Days Posts
#624158
That is the burr under my saddle. There are several on the bored, who knew Jr. had some major problems and did not try to help him, or remained silent. All of those people should be gone immediately.
It appears that unless there is a major purge, LU is going the way of the IFB movement and covering up major problems "for the well being of the ministry" or so it "won't hurt the cause of Christ". In the first instance if they are will to cover up for the ministry, there really is no ministry to cover up for. In the latter sense nothing can hurt the cause of Christ, because God is sovereign and man has no power over or saying in what God does.
I thought Jerry Sr. the BBC boys and Hyles Anderson cult, fought that war a long time ago. Jerry won that battle very clearly. I would hate to see us return to the old days where missionaries were chosen by how much they talked up the preachers to their own churches and The Hyles Circus just worshiped man and left God out all together. 100% Hyles, managawd, BS.
By Dustin Wahl
#624186
Sly Fox wrote: March 27th, 2021, 4:13 pm First off, I want to welcome Dustin to the board. This site has been the primary location for people who are passionate about this school to openly discuss issues for the past 15+ years. Even when JLFJR was posting regularly on the board, we went out of our way to be cordial but also open about concerns. The members of this board span the entire life of the school and in many cases are exceptionally well connected to not only the past but the inner workings of today. I think it is fair to say that even the strongest critics on here are so vocal primarily because they love the university so much.

Save71 has some detractors on here not because of its pursuit of reform but for a perception that it was Trump-fixated. I think more discussion on this forum will be enlightening to everyone who share the same ultimate goals.

As far as the split of responsibilities between chancellor and president, there is plenty of historical precedent in the school. It can be done effectively as long as Chancellor and Board have ultimate say.
Thank you for the kind welcome! I certainly share the passion for Liberty that everyone here has and look forward to learning from you all. And perfectly understandable re: perceptions of Save71.
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By TH Spangler
Registration Days Posts
#624375
Just John wrote: April 2nd, 2021, 9:15 am I posted this on the Nasser thread but it should be here:

Article in today's Politico about whether Jr is trying to make a comeback. Yet another damaging hit on the Board. Perhaps this will actually be helpful?

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/04/0 ... ack-478883
Haven't read the peice yet. I always look to see who wrote it first. "Maggie Severns is a Politico reporter covering money in politics." Sounds like she's a little out of her lane here? She seems hung up on Jr, looking at her past work. I wonder if she has any investigative articles on the Clinton or Biden pay to play rumors? :lol:
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By Sly Fox
Registration Days Posts
#624383
Read the article and wish I could dismiss the concerns. Sadly I cannot do so. There is nothing revelatory in the story. But it is a fair overview of the concerns in this thread.
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By thepostman
Registration Days Posts
#624384
I am fairly skeptical of most news media as it is and poltico clearly has an agenda here but almost everything in the article is old news and most of it has been confirmed to be true.

I'm just tired of hearing about him. If Prevo and the board had done a better job handling this situation it wouldn't continue to be brought up but here we are...
By ballah09
Registration Days Posts
#624393
There goes TH and his obsession with Jr.

Funny thing is I wouldn’t put it past Jr for reaching out showing off how much influence he still has on the board. I hope more articles like this comes out and shows how much of a joke our board is.
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By Just John
Registration Days Posts
#624396
ballah09 wrote: April 2nd, 2021, 11:28 am There goes TH and his obsession with Jr.

Funny thing is I wouldn’t put it past Jr for reaching out showing off how much influence he still has on the board. I hope more articles like this comes out and shows how much of a joke our board is.
This. It paints the Board in a bad light as it should and hopefully riles some people (parents perhaps) up and they feel they have to act. Not holding my breath but I don't think there is much chance of too many people being happy about the things in this article. And who really believes many people are "thanking" Jr.?
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By flameshaw
Registration Days Posts
#624401
Just John wrote: April 2nd, 2021, 1:51 pm
ballah09 wrote: April 2nd, 2021, 11:28 am There goes TH and his obsession with Jr.

Funny thing is I wouldn’t put it past Jr for reaching out showing off how much influence he still has on the board. I hope more articles like this comes out and shows how much of a joke our board is.
This. It paints the Board in a bad light as it should and hopefully riles some people (parents perhaps) up and they feel they have to act. Not holding my breath but I don't think there is much chance of too many people being happy about the things in this article. And who really believes many people are "thanking" Jr.?
Pretty obvious, Jr. and the truth are not on a first name basis.
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By rogers3
Registration Days Posts
#624411
I think these types of articles and this negative press is the only thing that will move the needle in the way of integrity for the leadership of Liberty. Prevo should be embarrassed at the moves he's made, but I think he's been making these kind of moves since he was back in Alaska. The corruption at Liberty would make most secular schools blush.
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By flameshaw
Registration Days Posts
#624412
rogers3 wrote: April 3rd, 2021, 8:33 am I think these types of articles and this negative press is the only thing that will move the needle in the way of integrity for the leadership of Liberty. Prevo should be embarrassed at the moves he's made, but I think he's been making these kind of moves since he was back in Alaska. The corruption at Liberty would make most secular schools blush.
I am not so sure it is wanton corruption. It is definitely the result of an unfettered leadership model where friends are rewarded and anyone who opposes the leader, is immediately excommunicated. No better example than the average Baptist Church (of which I attend), or a fundy kollege. I believe there is room at LU, for a university that can hold to the ideals of it's founding, without the dictator-style leadership Jr. practiced. However, it is going to take new leadership and getting rid of the current bored. Not sure that is in the cards. Kinda like getting Congress to vote to term-limit themselves. It is best for the country, but not for the ruling class.
#624417
rogers3 wrote: April 3rd, 2021, 8:33 am I think these types of articles and this negative press is the only thing that will move the needle in the way of integrity for the leadership of Liberty. Prevo should be embarrassed at the moves he's made, but I think he's been making these kind of moves since he was back in Alaska. The corruption at Liberty would make most secular schools blush.
When it comes to Prevo and his posse this is their theme song...

By Racenut
Registration Days Posts
#624427
As I sit here on Easter morning, I am seriously addressing those on this thread who think Liberty needs a "culture change". With the glaring exception of Jr's moral downfall and his personal proclivity to state political views in a less than diplomatic way, what exactly do you want changed about the "Culture" at Liberty?
From the outside, I see a thriving, growing institution that is delivering more than even Jerry Sr could have imagined when he felt God encouraging him to engage in this vision. The programs and fields of endeavor have grown exponentially in the last 50 years, enabling Christians to enter any profession or career field as fully qualified, properly trained ambassadors for Christ. I see missionaries abroad, I see graduates in media, I see Churches planted and I see athletics performed with excellence and coaches speaking boldly on national TV about the emphasis and impact of Christ in the lives of young men and women.
One reason that I am sitting here on Easter morning, is that I have seen the dangers of infighting on God's people. I have seen leaders stumble, and I have seen over zealous boards of Elders and Deacons wax poetic for hours on end with their solutions to problems in the Church, only to see nothing accomplished, but the self aggrandizing of those who have only been given positions because no one else agreed to serve. Parishioners are many times no better as they put their pet "one issue" concerns over the health of the fellowship. I confess to adding to that chaos at times in my life, and at the age of 62, I pledge that I will strive to do better.
These are problems that have surfaced throughout the history of God's Church and yet He continues to accomplish great things in spite of us. One great miracle that He has performed in front of our very eyes is Liberty University. My hope is that we would pray for the leadership at LU and for every movement to be orchestrated by His perfect will. I pray that every success would be magnified in His light and that we would soften our hearts to His mission over ours.
So, what are the specific "Culture" changes, if any that need to take place, and how will they positively impact the University and His mission. I hope the discussion is tempered in grace and humility.
I hope that the inclination of many Christians to throw the baby out with the bath water is avoided in these troubled times, as I for one see Liberty and all the good things that are going on there as a true light in the darkness.
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#624436
Racenut wrote: April 4th, 2021, 11:57 am As I sit here on Easter morning, I am seriously addressing those on this thread who think Liberty needs a "culture change". With the glaring exception of Jr's moral downfall and his personal proclivity to state political views in a less than diplomatic way, what exactly do you want changed about the "Culture" at Liberty?
From the outside, I see a thriving, growing institution that is delivering more than even Jerry Sr could have imagined when he felt God encouraging him to engage in this vision. The programs and fields of endeavor have grown exponentially in the last 50 years, enabling Christians to enter any profession or career field as fully qualified, properly trained ambassadors for Christ. I see missionaries abroad, I see graduates in media, I see Churches planted and I see athletics performed with excellence and coaches speaking boldly on national TV about the emphasis and impact of Christ in the lives of young men and women.
One reason that I am sitting here on Easter morning, is that I have seen the dangers of infighting on God's people. I have seen leaders stumble, and I have seen over zealous boards of Elders and Deacons wax poetic for hours on end with their solutions to problems in the Church, only to see nothing accomplished, but the self aggrandizing of those who have only been given positions because no one else agreed to serve. Parishioners are many times no better as they put their pet "one issue" concerns over the health of the fellowship. I confess to adding to that chaos at times in my life, and at the age of 62, I pledge that I will strive to do better.
These are problems that have surfaced throughout the history of God's Church and yet He continues to accomplish great things in spite of us. One great miracle that He has performed in front of our very eyes is Liberty University. My hope is that we would pray for the leadership at LU and for every movement to be orchestrated by His perfect will. I pray that every success would be magnified in His light and that we would soften our hearts to His mission over ours.
So, what are the specific "Culture" changes, if any that need to take place, and how will they positively impact the University and His mission. I hope the discussion is tempered in grace and humility.
I hope that the inclination of many Christians to throw the baby out with the bath water is avoided in these troubled times, as I for one see Liberty and all the good things that are going on there as a true light in the darkness.
I appreciate this earnest post, and I think I can provide some clarity about why many of your fellow Christ-followers are praying and working for a change of culture at Liberty. The successes you speak of, which are real, do not tell the full story about Liberty. Too often, Liberty's leaders use Liberty's virtues to conceal its sins and its wealth to conceal its weaknesses. The sins and weaknesses are very real, and it is wrong to ignore them.

There are outstanding allegations that Becki Falwell sexually preyed on a Liberty student and that both Falwells regularly objectified and sexualized students for fun. The board has never addressed this. One board member is a pastor who covered up sexual abuse in his church and then lied about it in his memoir. The board has not addressed this, either. For several years, Falwell leveraged his power for selfish and pernicious ends, hurting countless employees. Professors, those most responsible for the academic and spiritual formation of students, often live in fear of having their contracts suddenly ended in the spring, when there is no time to find a new teaching job (a task made harder by the reputation Falwell inflicted on Liberty.)

Those students who read the news about Liberty (a sizable minority) often become deeply disillusioned in their latter years as students and their first years as alumni. Why has Liberty's leadership never acknowledged its sins and sought forgiveness -- something Christians are taught to do as children? Why were Liberty's rules enforced on some but not others? Why are some students fined and stripped of scholarships for having wine at a wedding, while Falwell is a known heavy drinker? Why was the swing dancing club banned from campus, while some of the students who hang out with Nasser and Falwell go to clubs and house parties on the weekend? Why are girls made to dress conservatively at the campus pool, while other girls participate in a school-sanctioned swimsuit contest onstage in the Center for Music and Worship? Why are students warned about infighting and told not to criticize their leaders, while their leaders fight bitterly amongst themselves and vengefully punish people who respectfully disagree? Why do Liberty's proponents constantly praise the material wealth and status and power of the school, while our faith tells us that these things mean nothing, and that in fact they can be quite dangerous to our souls?

These are just a few of the questions that lead many former Liberty students and employees to disillusionment. I know countless graduates who are struggling with their faith because of this. I know many more who struggle with severe depression. Here are the words of just one Liberty student who reached out to my organization last year:

"I wish I could transfer, but I'm so close to finishing that I worry it will only cost more money. As a Christian woman who has suffered from sexual assault, I am horrified at Falwell's behavior and commentary about sexual assault. . . I don't know what to do. My debt makes me stay but my morality is begging me to leave."

Here is another (and I hear this a lot):

"I can't listen to worship music anymore."

So with all this said, here are two of the specific culture changes that my group, Save71, is calling for. First, Liberty's board, executive leadership, and senior leadership should apologize for and acknowledge their sins. Secondly, there should be a genuine attempt to make amends for them and root them out. I think those are pretty reasonable changes, but neither has happened!

Liberty has many wonderful qualities, but also struggles with terrible spiritual abuse. We need to acknowledge both, and it's vital to deal with the abuse first.

Luke 11:39-40: "Then the Lord said to him, 'Now then, you Pharisees clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside you are full of greed and wickedness. You foolish people! Did not the one who made the outside make the inside also?'"
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By Racenut
Registration Days Posts
#624456
My heart broke when hearing the news last year as it has several times over my lifetime when beloved Church leaders that I respected suffered terrible falls. My biggest fear was initially the irreparable damage it would do to the Kingdom and to Liberty as the media reveled in the fall. My second fear was the damage that would be done within. This event seemed to bring into focus other issues that were previously only known to those on faculty and staff. My purpose in the original post was to separate the true issues from the noise created by those who just had personality and procedural axes to grind. In ministry those major and minor conflicts become even more intense when a passionate faith is involved. I believe there are far too many good things happening on the Mountain to have us tearing it apart from within and I hope that this embarrassing situation will lead all involved to be humble and put personal preferences aside and seek solutions that heal and enable the work that God has already done to flourish in the future.
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