This is the definitive place to discuss everything that makes life on & off campus so unique in Central Virginia.

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By ALUmnus
Registration Days Posts
#528581
Purple Haize wrote:Are any of you guys in sales? Hyperbole. Purposeful exaggeration. Misdirection. All parts of sales techniques. Not sure you would call them lies.
Not buying that.
User avatar
By cruzan_flame13
Posts
#528582
8)
ALUmnus wrote:
cruzan_flame13 wrote:
adam42381 wrote:And that, folks, is what moving the goalposts looks like.
Were you helping to move it? Just wondering. The reason why I respect Trump is that he's down to earth. He is a new form of conservatism, discussing about the workers, jobs, immigration issues, innovation of technology. Of course a lot of folks in the republican party didn't like that. They dont actually care about these things and barely discusses them. We all can see that the democratic side doesn't want to do anything about immigration, technology, etc. (They actually want to prolong immigration, get rid of /limit technology and entrepreneurship). So if I'm offending anyone, I do not apologize because I'm just stating truths. We have been living in a society where bureaucrats have increased and and entrepreneurship has decrease. We have more federal workers than independent businessmen/businesswoman. Why is that? Because proposed working for social change to impact the world and that's when we have the peace corps and other organizations(started under Kennedy). So yes, generations have been dumbed down to think that this is great and entrepreneurs who gain success are the bad folks. We wouldn't have Apple, Microsoft and other big companies if it wasn't for those ideas the Reagan proposed in the 80's. Do you see a lot of politicians on both sides promoting this? Nope. So yes actions do speak louder than words. I can agree that Trump has said some things that are harsh(although a few weren't wrong to be honest). Should he calm down a bit and should be more honest? Yes. But don't make it seem that the other politicians are better becausevmany of them are actors and can play the part in public as well. Also, Trump is doing a lot of things that he implied on his platform, so I can support that. I will admit that there are things that I do not agree as well, both politically and personally. That's all I'll say on that matter.
Oy. The original point is that Trump is a habitual liar, but all you do is talk around that. Go ahead and say it to yourself a few times, Donald Trump lies to everyone, a lot. From the above, I can't really tell what you're for, other than Trump. And your "new form of conservatism" comment leads me to believe that you didn't really understand conservatism to begin with. But your last sentence gives me hope.
I literally stated about free enterprise (need of entrepreneurship, the boom of such action in the 80's, etc.), traditional values and ideas. I agree and support these ideas and some of Trump's platform is for that. I suppose that is an issue to you and others. As for a habitual lying, that is a bit of an exaggeration. That would mean everything he says is a lie which is not the case. Has he lied? Yes, but I made these statements because it's pretty funny to state that an individual hasn't done any of his promises when he is only been in office for two months(all though he's done some decent things in my opinion). Because I support him, doesn't mean I agree with everything. By the way, the new form of conservatism is broadening the traditional ideas as society changes. Things are changing and the ideas are not going to be identical to what it was a generation or two ago. That's why I stated the 'ol timers do not understand because they are still using those old political tactics. That's why Liberty is not identical to what it was two decades ago. That's also why people will like some actions done by Jerry Jr. and dislike others. Furthermore, my last sentence give you hope? That's funny, you must be blind because the Republican party is changing lol.
User avatar
By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#528583
ALUmnus wrote:
Purple Haize wrote:Are any of you guys in sales? Hyperbole. Purposeful exaggeration. Misdirection. All parts of sales techniques. Not sure you would call them lies.
Not buying that.
What? That those aren't sales techniques?
User avatar
By cruzan_flame13
Posts
#528585
adam42381 wrote:
Class of 20Something wrote:
ALUmnus wrote: But your last sentence gives me hope.
Seems like you just wanted to have the last word here without any fight. Pretty elementary tactic here too.

He either
A) Retorts and responds to your comment, thus breaking his "That's all I've got to say 'bout that"

B) He leaves it be and you got your last dig into him.

You are arguing to win, not discussing to understand.
There is no "winning" here. Cruzan asked for evidence, got it, then changed the conversation. There is no reason to engage him any further.
Evidence? I guess putting words between quotations are considered evidence. What was the first one? Something about Trump saying he'll release his taxes. Firstly he doesn't have to , there's no law that says he does. Secondly, did he say when he'll do it? Then awhile back we find out he paid $38 million back in '05. Even if I go through and have a feedback on the evidence provided, you or someone else will just reply back with some other notion like "well it wasn't his tax return from last year!"(just an example. So yes I'll just let it be and let you guys criticize the man. I don't support him entirely, but to me he is a better candidate than any of democrats and republican candidates who cower towards the media and other groups. Hopefully he'll get to understand more of his position and that the Lord will work on him as an individual and as a leader.
User avatar
By Just John
Registration Days Posts
#528586
Just John wrote:
cruzan_flame13 wrote:
adam42381 wrote:And that, folks, is what moving the goalposts looks like.
Were you helping to move it? Just wondering. The reason why I respect Trump is that he's down to earth. He is a new form of conservatism, discussing about the workers, jobs, immigration issues, innovation of technology. Of course a lot of folks in the republican party didn't like that. They dont actually care about these things and barely discusses them. We all can see that the democratic side doesn't want to do anything about immigration, technology, etc. (They actually want to prolong immigration, get rid of /limit technology and entrepreneurship). So if I'm offending anyone, I do not apologize because I'm just stating truths. We have been living in a society where bureaucrats have increased and and entrepreneurship has decrease. We have more federal workers than independent businessmen/businesswoman. Why is that? Because proposed working for social change to impact the world so that's when we have the peace corps and other organizations(started under Kennedy). So yes, generations have been dumbed down to think that this is great and entrepreneurs who gain success are the bad folks. We wouldn't have Apple, Microsoft and other big companies if it wasn't for those ideas the Reagan proposed in the 80's. Do you see a lot of politicians on both sides promoting this? Nope. So yes actions do speak louder than words. I can agree that Trump has said some things that are harsh(although a few weren't wrong to be honest). Should he calm down a bit and should be more honest? Yes. But don't make it seem that the other politicians are better becausevmany of them are actors and can play the part in public as well. Also, Trump is doing a lot of things that he implied on his platform, so I can support that. I will admit that there are things that I do not agree as well, both politically and personally. That's all I'll say on that matter.
cruzan_flame13 wrote:No I just like facts with actual evidence and not just sayings with no hardcore evidence.

.
There are 28 million small business, ergo at least 28 million business owners (last numbers reported by the SBA). There are approximately 11 million federal workers and that's if you are INCLUDING the military.

Entrepreneurship is increasing, not decreasing. The internet has led the way.
By ATrain
Registration Days Posts
#528589
Actually, including the military, there are less than 5 million federal employees and the height of federal employment was in 1968, when there were 6,639,000 including over 3 million in the military - likely due to the draft and the Vietnam war, as this was the height of US involvement there.
https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversig ... ince-1962/
User avatar
By Just John
Registration Days Posts
#528590
cruzan_flame13 wrote: 'Evidence? I guess putting words between quotations are considered evidence. What was the first one? Something about Trump saying he'll release his taxes. Firstly he doesn't have to , there's no law that says he does. Secondly, did he say when he'll do it? Then awhile back we find out he paid $38 million back in '05. Even if I go through and have a feedback on the evidence provided, you or someone else will just reply back with some other notion like "well it wasn't his tax return from last year!"(just an example. So yes I'll just let it be and let you guys criticize the man. I don't support him entirely, but to me he is a better candidate than any of democrats and republican candidates who cower towards the media and other groups. Hopefully he'll get to understand more of his position and that the Lord will work on him as an individual and as a leader.

“If I decide to run for office I’ll produce my tax returns. Absolutely.”

Meet The Press 1/24/16

“We’re working on that now. I have big returns, as you know, and I have everything all approved and very beautiful and we’ll be working that over in the next period of time, this is not, like, a normal tax return"

GOP Debate, Houston 2/25/16


“As far as my return, I want to file it, except for many years, I’ve been audited every year, twelve years or something like that. Every year, they audit me, audit me, audit me… I will absolutely give my return, but I’m being audited now for two or three [years’ worth] now so I can’t.”

Interview with AP 5/11/16


"In interview I told @AP that my taxes are under routine audit and I would release my tax returns when audit is complete, not after election!"

Twitter May 5/11/16


“Now, I hope [the audit] gets finished soon. And if it gets finished soon, I put it out immediately because there’s nothing there."

Good Morning America 5/13/16


“It’s (tax rate) none of your business, you’ll see it when I release. But I fight very hard to pay as little tax as possible."
“I don’t think [the people care], but I do say this: I will really gladly give them.


Good Morning America 5/13/16


Trump says he will release his taxes if Hillary releases the emails she deleted.

Presidential Debate 9/26/16


“The White House response is that he’s not going to release his tax returns,” Kellyanne Conway said.

“We litigated this all through the election. People didn’t care. They voted for him"


ABC This Week 1/22/17


It was not about whether he had to. He promised to.

If you want me to fact-check any of the other proof I gave, just let me know.
User avatar
By Just John
Registration Days Posts
#528591
ATrain wrote:Actually, including the military, there are less than 5 million federal employees and the height of federal employment was in 1968, when there were 6,639,000 including over 3 million in the military - likely due to the draft and the Vietnam war, as this was the height of US involvement there.
https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversig ... ince-1962/
Thank you for the correction. You are absolutely right. My source came from here but I copied it down wrong. :?

http://historyinpieces.com/research/fed ... mbers-1962
Last edited by Just John on March 24th, 2017, 6:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
By Just John
Registration Days Posts
#528592
cruzan_flame13 wrote:That's why I stated the 'ol timers do not understand because they are still using those old political tactics. That's why Liberty is not identical to what it was two decades ago. That's also why people will like some actions done by Jerry Jr. and dislike others.
I'll let all your other straw men blow in the wind but I for one am VERY glad LU has got away from the legalism of the early years. And even more glad much of that change started under Sr. I live in Lynchburg and enjoy going to some of the great concerts LU brings in. I have drawn the line at Paula White being in convocation though. :roll:
User avatar
By cruzan_flame13
Posts
#528601
Just John wrote:
cruzan_flame13 wrote:That's why I stated the 'ol timers do not understand because they are still using those old political tactics. That's why Liberty is not identical to what it was two decades ago. That's also why people will like some actions done by Jerry Jr. and dislike others.
I'll let all your other straw men blow in the wind but I for one am VERY glad LU has got away from the legalism of the early years. And even more glad much of that change started under Sr. I live in Lynchburg and enjoy going to some of the great concerts LU brings in. I have drawn the line at Paula White being in convocation though. :roll:
I'm causing a straw man fallacy because I states that old politics doesn't work anymore? How am I misrepresenting your argument? I suppose when he promise to show his tax return, he was suppose to do it on someone's terms? Since he didn't do so, therefore he's a liar. You don't know if he was told not to do so immediately by his lawyers or some other reason. So he's a liar for that. I'm going to worry now on important matters now and not on tax returns (which we wouldn't learn as much about [Trump's] income since he was self employed).
User avatar
By adam42381
Registration Days Posts
#528602
cruzan_flame13 wrote:
Just John wrote:
cruzan_flame13 wrote:That's why I stated the 'ol timers do not understand because they are still using those old political tactics. That's why Liberty is not identical to what it was two decades ago. That's also why people will like some actions done by Jerry Jr. and dislike others.
I'll let all your other straw men blow in the wind but I for one am VERY glad LU has got away from the legalism of the early years. And even more glad much of that change started under Sr. I live in Lynchburg and enjoy going to some of the great concerts LU brings in. I have drawn the line at Paula White being in convocation though. :roll:
I'm causing a straw man fallacy because I states that old politics doesn't work anymore? How am I misrepresenting your argument? I suppose when he promise to show his tax return, he was suppose to do it on someone's terms? Since he didn't do so, therefore he's a liar. You don't know if he was told not to do so immediately by his lawyers or some other reason. So he's a liar for that. I'm going to worry now on important matters now and not on tax returns (which we wouldn't learn as much about [Trump's] income since he was self employed).
Like the failure of his healthcare plan and the increasing likelihood that he was in bed with the Russians?
User avatar
By LUGrad2000
Registration Days Posts
#528604
The President of the U.S. Is speaking at graduation.
I have mixed feelings about him.
A third of the time, I think heirs crazy.
A third of the time, I give him the benefit of the doubt. All the while hoping he stays off Twitter.
The other third, he gives me hope he will do a good job.
I am a proud Liberty grad that loved Jerry Sr.
We have the POTUS speaking at my school.
BHAG
P.S. These kids there now will never know what it is like to skip breakfast on Saturday morning just because it was too much trouble to put on a tie.
By rogers3
Registration Days Posts
#528607
LUGrad2000 wrote: P.S. These kids there now will never know what it is like to skip breakfast on Saturday morning just because it was too much trouble to put on a tie.
I was supposed to be an LU grad in 1989 and I don't think anyone wore ties to breakfast on Saturdays. Did something change by 2000?
By ATrain
Registration Days Posts
#528608
rogers3 wrote:
LUGrad2000 wrote: P.S. These kids there now will never know what it is like to skip breakfast on Saturday morning just because it was too much trouble to put on a tie.
I was supposed to be an LU grad in 1989 and I don't think anyone wore ties to breakfast on Saturdays. Did something change by 2000?
In 2003 we weren't wearing ties anywhere...
User avatar
By Just John
Registration Days Posts
#528609
cruzan_flame13 wrote:
Just John wrote:
cruzan_flame13 wrote:That's why I stated the 'ol timers do not understand because they are still using those old political tactics. That's why Liberty is not identical to what it was two decades ago. That's also why people will like some actions done by Jerry Jr. and dislike others.
I'll let all your other straw men blow in the wind but I for one am VERY glad LU has got away from the legalism of the early years. And even more glad much of that change started under Sr. I live in Lynchburg and enjoy going to some of the great concerts LU brings in. I have drawn the line at Paula White being in convocation though. :roll:
I'm causing a straw man fallacy because I states that old politics doesn't work anymore? How am I misrepresenting your argument? I suppose when he promise to show his tax return, he was suppose to do it on someone's terms? Since he didn't do so, therefore he's a liar. You don't know if he was told not to do so immediately by his lawyers or some other reason. So he's a liar for that. I'm going to worry now on important matters now and not on tax returns (which we wouldn't learn as much about [Trump's] income since he was self employed).
You just double and triple down. :dontgetit
User avatar
By cruzan_flame13
Posts
#528612
When I attended LU, you didn't have to wear a tie. You did have to wear a collard shirt. I believed that has changed as well but I could be wrong. Also, I heard that LU asked Hillary to come speak at the school but she didn't. Only Sanders took the opportunity, so that is quite interesting.
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By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#528613
adam42381 wrote: Like the failure of his healthcare plan and the increasing likelihood that he was in bed with the Russians?
C'mon. You're not buying the Russian story are you? They've been beating that drum for how long? There isn't even an actual solid accusation as to what the Russians did on Trumps behalf to win the General or Primary election. It's the old 'It's the seriousness of the accusations' play that Democrats have used for decades
User avatar
By adam42381
Registration Days Posts
#528615
Purple Haize wrote:
adam42381 wrote: Like the failure of his healthcare plan and the increasing likelihood that he was in bed with the Russians?
C'mon. You're not buying the Russian story are you? They've been beating that drum for how long? There isn't even an actual solid accusation as to what the Russians did on Trumps behalf to win the General or Primary election. It's the old 'It's the seriousness of the accusations' play that Democrats have used for decades
Time will tell. There's definitely smoke...
User avatar
By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#528619
adam42381 wrote:
Purple Haize wrote:
adam42381 wrote: Like the failure of his healthcare plan and the increasing likelihood that he was in bed with the Russians?
C'mon. You're not buying the Russian story are you? They've been beating that drum for how long? There isn't even an actual solid accusation as to what the Russians did on Trumps behalf to win the General or Primary election. It's the old 'It's the seriousness of the accusations' play that Democrats have used for decades
Time will tell. There's definitely smoke...
There is no fire, plenty of smoke being blown though. There is just a brilliantly run anti Trump PR Campaign on it. If you are old enough to remember, you've seen this before with Tom Foley and his 'Even though we have no facts, it's the seriousness of the allegations...'. This is playing out again. There is no specific charge of how exactly Putin helped Trump win the election, just allegations that Putin influenced the election. But dig deeper, there is no specifics as to what that influence looked like. There is no explanation as to how Putin helped Trump win the Republican Primary. And it strains credulity to think Putin was putting all his money on a guy who, until about 8:45 on election night, everyone thought would lose
User avatar
By thepostman
Registration Days Posts
#528620
Russian interference allegations are full of half truths to write a narrative to make Trump look bad. The Obama spying allegations are full of half truths to write a narrative that takes the focus off of Trump.

Both are being used to push a certain political agenda. It is getting old hearing the media focus on these things that have little to no support.
User avatar
By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#528622
thepostman wrote:Russian interference allegations are full of half truths to write a narrative to make Trump look bad. The Obama spying allegations are full of half truths to write a narrative that takes the focus off of Trump.

Both are being used to push a certain political agenda. It is getting old hearing the media focus on these things that have little to no support.
What's funny about the Obama spying on Trump stuff is how roles switch. Conservatives loathe the NYT and WaPo, yet those are the sources the Trump Administration is using to validate their claims. So for Liberals to say Trump is lying they have to throw their Holy Scribes under the bus. For Conservatives to believe Trump they have to give credibility to their mortal enemies in the MSM. And the only one who can break the stalemate, James Comey, is hated and distrusted by both sides :D
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By alabama24
Registration Days Posts
#528648
Purple Haize wrote:Are any of you guys in sales? Hyperbole. Purposeful exaggeration. Misdirection. All parts of sales techniques. Not sure you would call them lies.
The first time I've heard someone not call used car salesmen liars. :lol:
Last edited by alabama24 on March 26th, 2017, 8:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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By alabama24
Registration Days Posts
#528649
One of the things I love about Liberty is that we can have speakers come in and be respectful to them even if we disagree with their views or politics. I hope and pray that remains to be the case in the future.
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