A Sea Of Red

Our expert poster in this arena has been suspiciously quiet on this subject. Hopefully that means he is involved in the process.

If the plan is simply to rework existing facilities at River Ridge it will be a difficult see to bring in higher end options. However is the plan is to completely rework the site into a more relevant outdoor/indoor concept making it a destination location then just about anything comes into play. Otherwise your higher end businesses are going to focus on where the grownups and their disposable income are located in downtown and upper income suburbs. At least that is what I am witnessing in the high growth markets where I spend most of my time these days: Houston & Seattle.

Sly Fox wrote:Our expert poster in this arena has been suspiciously quiet on this subject. Hopefully that means he is involved in the process.

If the plan is simply to rework existing facilities at River Ridge it will be a difficult see to bring in higher end options. However is the plan is to completely rework the site into a more relevant outdoor/indoor concept making it a destination location then just about anything comes into play. Otherwise your higher end businesses are going to focus on where the grownups and their disposable income are located in downtown and upper income suburbs. At least that is what I am witnessing in the high growth markets where I spend most of my time these days: Houston & Seattle.

Yep, the location isn't really the issue. It's easy to get to from the major roads. It just needs to bring enough value to be worth the travel outside of Sundays. Now, even when going to the movies, we don't bother with the rest of the mall.

If the mall adds value, people and their money will show up.

As it is now, the existing facility doesn't match with some of the higher end names being tossed around.

Jonathan Carone wrote:I sometimes wonder if the university side of Lynchburg can support a restaurant that averages more than $15/plate.

The Kirkley and Hilton Garden Inn both have higher-end restaurants (higher-end for Lynchburg). Overall, the restaurant options in Lynchburg are WAY better than they used to be, but most of it is away from the Wards area.

ALUmnus wrote:

Jonathan Carone wrote:I sometimes wonder if the university side of Lynchburg can support a restaurant that averages more than $15/plate.

The Kirkley and Hilton Garden Inn both have higher-end restaurants (higher-end for Lynchburg). Overall, the restaurant options in Lynchburg are WAY better than they used to be, but most of it is away from the Wards area.

That's why I specifically said the university side of things. Other areas can definitely support the higher end restaurants.

alabama24 wrote:There is more! https://wset.com/news/local/hobby-lobby ... ridge-mall

I was at the mall Monday evening. Place was was more dead than a cemetary.

ballcoach15 wrote:Based on what I read somewhere this morning, I think a cafeteria is on the way.


I wish Value City would return.

Value City was solid. I got my suit coat there like 13 years ago. Still fits. Doesn't fit very well, but still fits on the rare occasion I need to wear it.

rogers3 wrote:Steinmart, DSW, Home Goods
Red Robin, Bonefish Grill

Could also poach Dick's or add a Field and Stream instead.

Just thinking about what is seen in other markets. I've been a big critic of LU's retail "investment" strategy, but am hopeful that we will finally see some positive changes. Nothing makes college students more excited than a bunch of empty storefronts!

Why on Earth would Dick's move away from a prime location it currently has to a practically dead mall?

I wish some store would come to Lynchburg to give Dick's an opponent in the sporting goods business in the city. Their prices are so high, I feel as if I get robbed every time I go in there, even if I not buy anything.


Danville mall has a Dunham Sports, which is much better than Dick's.

ballcoach15 wrote:I wish some store would come to Lynchburg to give Dick's an opponent in the sporting goods business in the city. Their prices are so high, I feel as if I get robbed every time I go in there, even if I not buy anything.


Danville mall has a Dunham Sports, which is much better than Dick's.

I could see Academy or Field and Stream coming. F&S is actually part of the same ownership as Dicks and most Dicks are supposed to stop offering firearms in the future.

we're still talking about Lynchburg, right? there are no competing options because we can hardly support one big box in each category. unless it's discount clothing.

ALUmnus wrote:we're still talking about Lynchburg, right? there are no competing options because we can hardly support one big box in each category. unless it's discount clothing.

We can support guns though. That we have a handle on.

lynchburgwildcats wrote: Why on Earth would Dick's move away from a prime location it currently has to a practically dead mall?

The mall is only as dead as its owner lets it be. Revamped malls with mixed uses are becoming pretty popular. Just imagine how the economy would hum if LU was paying salaries competitive with the University of Lynchburg.
Dicks has expressed interest in other sites to make way for a Field and Stream. If I told you how I know, I'd have to kill you.

ALUmnus wrote:we're still talking about Lynchburg, right? there are no competing options because we can hardly support one big box in each category. unless it's discount clothing.

You have no idea, do you? The Lynchburg market is pretty strong, but is short on prepared sites, most of which are held locally and are priced higher than the market rate. Local developers in Lynchburg are a bunch of yahoos, and that includes our own efforts.

rogers3 wrote:

lynchburgwildcats wrote: Why on Earth would Dick's move away from a prime location it currently has to a practically dead mall?

The mall is only as dead as its owner lets it be. Revamped malls with mixed uses are becoming pretty popular. Just imagine how the economy would hum if LU was paying salaries competitive with the University of Lynchburg.
Dicks has expressed interest in other sites to make way for a Field and Stream. If I told you how I know, I'd have to kill you.

ALUmnus wrote:we're still talking about Lynchburg, right? there are no competing options because we can hardly support one big box in each category. unless it's discount clothing.

You have no idea, do you? The Lynchburg market is pretty strong, but is short on prepared sites, most of which are held locally and are priced higher than the market rate. Local developers in Lynchburg are a bunch of yahoos, and that includes our own efforts.

This is spot on and has been my observation of the real estate development in the area as well. It seems to be the result of a lot of short term thinking, which is a bummer because there is a lot of potential.

rogers3 wrote:

ALUmnus wrote:we're still talking about Lynchburg, right? there are no competing options because we can hardly support one big box in each category. unless it's discount clothing.

You have no idea, do you? The Lynchburg market is pretty strong, but is short on prepared sites, most of which are held locally and are priced higher than the market rate. Local developers in Lynchburg are a bunch of yahoos, and that includes our own efforts.

Kind of a moody response there, rogers. You obviously know more than I do, but after about 20 years here, I've yet to see that strong market materialize in the retail space.

ALUmnus wrote:

rogers3 wrote:

ALUmnus wrote:we're still talking about Lynchburg, right? there are no competing options because we can hardly support one big box in each category. unless it's discount clothing.

You have no idea, do you? The Lynchburg market is pretty strong, but is short on prepared sites, most of which are held locally and are priced higher than the market rate. Local developers in Lynchburg are a bunch of yahoos, and that includes our own efforts.

Kind of a moody response there, rogers. You obviously know more than I do, but after about 20 years here, I've yet to see that strong market materialize in the retail space.

Not really moody, and not really directed at you. i think many people have very little knowledge of the market/community outside of Liberty. I have the same response when people talk about the "endowment" or how LU can throw money around....nothing personal.

So I wonder how this affects things moving forward. Assuming this is a big step up and maybe will attract even more to the mall?

https://wset.com/news/local/new-company ... nt-leasing

rhezick wrote:So I wonder how this affects things moving forward. Assuming this is a big step up and maybe will attract even more to the mall?

https://wset.com/news/local/new-company ... nt-leasing

I saw this yesterday. I'm not sure what the end result will be. A look at JLL's portfolio reflects some thriving properties, and some not so much. A lot will still come down to the commitment to longterm investments in the property from a development standpoint. Improvements and remodeling, adjusting the use of space. JLL is in a much better position to guide Liberty through making sure that money on the mall is spent in the right place though than anyone internally.

I've been pretty skeptical of CBREs potential based on the lack of success in their other properties. Badger would be the best to tell the difference, but don't see him took much anymore.

rogers3 wrote:I've been pretty skeptical of CBREs potential...

Which was the old company... what do you think of the new one (or do you not know)?

CBRE- The commercialized Coldwell Banker- is the largest commercial agent in the world, with JLL the second largest. Locally, CBRE hasn't seemed to draw tenants well based on what has transpired over the last few years. I think Jerry was in pretty tight with Chris Doyle, the local CBRE guy. He also happens to be involved with the La Quinta. Interesting that they can't get a tenant into that old restaurant alongside the La Quinta. CBRE has also represented Candler's Station and the Plaza.
JLL might have a different approach and might be more successful at attracting the right mix at the mall. The right leadership can make an older shopping center a great destination; there has not much vision for any of the LU properties, but things might be changing.

I was hurt when CBRE--my old firm for many years--lost the local LU portfolio to JLL. JLL was even more of an institutional firm with the old Lasalle Partners and Jones Lang Wooten competing with some of the major Wall Street firms for deals. Well respected but a little hoity-toity. They hired lots of Ivy grads.
The big rumor I am hearing concerns a new higher end open air mall around where Billy Craft Honda is. Several local higher end stores (Talbots etc)will relocate there from Boonsboro plus a Cheesecake Factory and other restaurants. That would be ideal for the 24503/Forest crowd and make things tougher for River Ridge.

badger74 wrote:I was hurt when CBRE--my old firm for many years--lost the local LU portfolio to JLL. JLL was even more of an institutional firm with the old Lasalle Partners and Jones Lang Wooten competing with some of the major Wall Street firms for deals. Well respected but a little hoity-toity. They hired lots of Ivy grads.
The big rumor I am hearing concerns a new higher end open air mall around where Billy Craft Honda is. Several local higher end stores (Talbots etc)will relocate there from Boonsboro plus a Cheesecake Factory and other restaurants. That would be ideal for the 24503/Forest crowd and make things tougher for River Ridge.

I don't mind CBRE- I really wonder how well Chris Doyle represented the properties and if that wasn't a bigger issue. Glad you weighed in- you know this stuff better than anyone on here. I think Liberty has really misjudged the retail market by acting slowly, but it is pretty obvious that demographics favor the 221/Old Forest area. I do think LU could poach off of other Wards Rd centers if they get create something attractive.

badger74 wrote:I was hurt when CBRE--my old firm for many years--lost the local LU portfolio to JLL. JLL was even more of an institutional firm with the old Lasalle Partners and Jones Lang Wooten competing with some of the major Wall Street firms for deals. Well respected but a little hoity-toity. They hired lots of Ivy grads.
The big rumor I am hearing concerns a new higher end open air mall around where Billy Craft Honda is. Several local higher end stores (Talbots etc)will relocate there from Boonsboro plus a Cheesecake Factory and other restaurants. That would be ideal for the 24503/Forest crowd and make things tougher for River Ridge.

I feel like that area will need a lot of work to become a high end destination. There’s certainly a lot of potential, but I still don’t feel we’ve reached peak Cheesecake yet.

Street redo is part of the deal. While L struggles some with higher end retail the number of cool highend cars is exploding. The stuff that comes to my Starbucks regularly amazes me. Saturday there was not one but two brand new Porsche GT3s. They go over $200K each. Plus a Jag 500 HP F type and a Lexus LC. None of these sell locally and are hard to get--even with the $$$$.

badger74 wrote:The big rumor I am hearing concerns a new higher end open air mall around where Billy Craft Honda is. Several local higher end stores (Talbots etc)will relocate there from Boonsboro plus a Cheesecake Factory and other restaurants. That would be ideal for the 24503/Forest crowd and make things tougher for River Ridge.

That's my neighborhood! The new wings place nearby on the same side of the road is sure doing great business.