[Humble_Opinion]

Another similar story to ours.

http://m.wdbj7.com/news/local/private-s ... p/35184838

I know it's difficult for you YR. I disagree with the focus of the story here though. LCA and not LU is at fault here in my opinion. I understand that LU of course are the bigger target since it's their organization that controls the cash and made the decision to cancel the program. But it's LCA that appears to have failed in its fiduciary responsibility to disclose the true terms of the agreement with LU to their potential suitors.

Furthermore, in terms of the decision by LU itself, I fully am in support of it. The program was created to help stabilize enrollment at LU when it needed all the butts in seats that it could get many years ago. Nowadays, it's seemingly treated more like an entitlement by some of the folks at LCA resulting in students not trying as hard in high school because their acceptance to LU is a fait accompli. Obviously this doesn't apply across the board, but from a business perspective LU is responsible for ensuring that it gets the best value out of the dollars it allocates to scholarships and discounts and I believe that when they looked at the numbers they saw lackluster value in the amounts they were spending on this program. No one here likes to see anyone get the short end of the stick and come out a loser in any situation. On a personal/spiritual level I havever to believe that the God we all claim to place our trust in has the foresight, power and love to make plans for you and your family that effectively allow you to weather any of the macro changes that come about in your personal lives as a result of any decision made by any organization. As a husband/father myself I will be praying for guidance for you and your family.

[Yacht Rock]

In my opinion they both are at fault. I'm tired though and it's been a long day and don't desire to spend another evening spinning wheels on this. Leadership on both sides really dropped the ball.

[Humble_Opinion]

In my opinion they both are at fault. I'm tired though and it's been a long day and don't desire to spend another evening spinning wheels on this. Leadership on both sides really dropped the ball.

Understood. I apologize if my statement irked you. Probably not what you want to read... hope this all works out for you and your family.

[flamehunter]

The wonderful thing about following God is that when we think we have lost control of our own lives and situations, He shows that He was in the driver's seat all along and took us to a place we didn't see coming and on a road that we never knew existed. Our family has gone through an ordeal I never dreamed would happen and would have never wanted to have to live through. God has shown Himself faithful and we are all stronger in Him for it.

[Yacht Rock]

The wonderful thing about following God is that when we think we have lost control of our own lives and situations, He shows that He was in the driver's seat all along and took us to a place we didn't see coming and on a road that we never knew existed. Our family has gone through an ordeal I never dreamed would happen and would have never wanted to have to live through. God has shown Himself faithful and we are all stronger in Him for it.

You are 100% correct. The fact is, where man will fail us, God will never fail us. Amen.

My wife and I take solace in that and that actually makes this whole process easier.

I reminded my wife today of how many times we've had to take a step back, only to take two steps forward later.

[rhezick]

It would be interesting to get an objective baseline on all of this numbers wise, as what the VP for financial aid said does hold merit... don't get me wrong. Sucks across the board. But you can pretty much fall into numerous scholarships right? I get it, not the point. Just from what I've heard around town though it seems like people are viewing it as all/nothing, when correct me if I'm wrong, but you can pretty much sleepwalk into $8100 in scholarships the first year, $6100 per year after that with at least a 3.0 gpa and crappy SAT scores (950+).

($1500 academic achievement + $2000 early deposit + 1500 Virginia scholarship + $3100 VTAG)

If you graduated from LU, then that's another $1000. If you're fafsa is low enough, then Pell's got you with another $6,000, and if you're kids smarter than the average bear north of a 3.5gpa, that's another grand or two. That, on top of whatever cumulative 10% years of attendance you've got stacked up.

All that to say, I get annoyed when my family budget doesn't work out perfectly every month, so I'm sure I can't even comprehend the difficult situation you're facing YR. Praying for you for all those tough choices.

[SumItUp]

I'm disappointed in the response. I appreciate participation in the discussions from JLFJR. Thank you for sharing. Personally, we considered making a move to Lynchburg and were never informed that the scholarships could be abruptly ended. If Liberty were in the same financial position as the early 90's, it would be understandable. Anyone else remember waiting in line for multiple hous day after day to see if there were funds in the Liberty account so Mrs. Tomlin could sign and deliver a check? Fortunately, those times have passed. There is still time and money to reverse this decision and do the right thing.

[SuperJon]

Why does the decision have to be reversed for it to be the right thing? Why do LCA students (in the future) deserve to go to Liberty for free? I hate how this effects current students and I hate how LCA essentially lied to parents, but moving forward, why should Liberty give a hangout to students simply for attending a Christian school? Why are those students more deserving than the kids who go to public school?

[rogers3]

Why does the decision have to be reversed for it to be the right thing? Why do LCA students (in the future) deserve to go to Liberty for free? I hate how this effects current students and I hate how LCA essentially lied to parents, but moving forward, why should Liberty give a hangout to students simply for attending a Christian school? Why are those students more deserving than the kids who go to public school?

Also, what about the student who attends the local Christian school that LU has never extended its offer to? Straight As at what is considered one of the most rigorous schools in the region... that student might want to attend LU and the parents have been footing a larger tuition bill.

[SuperJon]

Why does the decision have to be reversed for it to be the right thing? Why do LCA students (in the future) deserve to go to Liberty for free? I hate how this effects current students and I hate how LCA essentially lied to parents, but moving forward, why should Liberty give a hangout to students simply for attending a Christian school? Why are those students more deserving than the kids who go to public school?

Also, what about the student who attends the local Christian school that LU has never extended its offer to? Straight As at what is considered one of the most rigorous schools in the region... that student might want to attend LU and the parents have been footing a larger tuition bill.

Exactly. Also, and I'm not trying to throw stones here, but isn't LCA considered the bottom rung education wise of all the Christian schools in Lynchburg?

[ATrain]

LCA may be considered the "bottom rung," but as a graduate, I wouldn't be where I am today without that scholarship and my parents having to find a way to get me from Farmville to Lynchburg 5 days a week (and then, later on, my GA position with the tennis teams). I am happily married, have a great job that makes a direct difference in the lives of hundreds of people a year, and we've been blessed to be able to help out less fortunate friends/family because of the fact we aren't hindered by student loan debt and I have also given back, financially, to the University as a result of where we are. It was a way for middle class families, like mine, who will not qualify for government aid, to give their kids a Christian education throughout life without having to take on a ton of student loan debt that is currently making things difficult for millions of other graduates. BTW SJ, isn't Liberty considered in the "bottom rung," of colleges and universities? So why are these "great students," at these "rigorous schools," considering Liberty in the first place? Why not somewhere more prestigious like Duke, Wake Forest or Baylor?

Was the LCA scholarship fair to families who sent kids to other schools in the area? No. Is life fair? No. However, everyone in the area knew the deal and ultimately decided where to send their kids to school. You can't please everyone and it is disappointing that people would rather see and/or take joy in the misfortune of others falling into their situation than a solution that would benefit others.

BTW YR...now may be a time to start seeing if LCA will look into doing a dual enrollment, with CVCC like many other area schools. That way, they'll only need two years instead of four at LU.

Finally, it was always my understanding that admittance to LU was not guaranteed for LCA grads, but if you got in the scholarship was.

[SuperJon]

I'm not trying to say LCA isn't a good school. There have obviously been great people to come out of LCA. What I'm saying is there is nothing at LCA that makes their students more deserving for scholarships than other schools in the area. If LCA was head and shoulders above the other schools in the area then you have a case for continuing the automatic scholarship. Since it's not, Liberty is rightly choosing to spread that money around to students who may be more deserving and/or have a greater need.

[Humble_Opinion]

LCA may be considered the "bottom rung," but as a graduate, I wouldn't be where I am today without that scholarship and my parents having to find a way to get me from Farmville to Lynchburg 5 days a week (and then, later on, my GA position with the tennis teams). I am happily married, have a great job that makes a direct difference in the lives of hundreds of people a year, and we've been blessed to be able to help out less fortunate friends/family because of the fact we aren't hindered by student loan debt and I have also given back, financially, to the University as a result of where we are. It was a way for middle class families, like mine, who will not qualify for government aid, to give their kids a Christian education throughout life without having to take on a ton of student loan debt that is currently making things difficult for millions of other graduates.

First of all - I'm happy for you and the fact that you are debt free. My wife and I after having graduated nearly 7 years ago still owe nearly $80k in student loans. I worked at LU FT after college as did she for a while, before we got pregnant. No offense to JFLJR, but LU doesn't pay very well. If you look at Glassdoor.com you see that clearly. Sure, I got a degree there for free, but almost every company that has more than 500 employees offers the same education benefits that LU does. Second, there are PLENTY of other college bound students out there that fall under the umbrella of what you just described (myself 10 years ago included). Middle class, no hope of PELL Grants, etc. Why should someone who went to LCA receive a FULL TUITION scholarship simply for graduating from there? I understand and have empathy for the people who are affected by this decision. I think the university could have handled it better by grandfathering everyone at LCA right now under a plan for the greater of what they have earned or 20%. But that doesn't change my opinion of this decision being the best for LU and where they are as a university right now.

BTW SJ, isn't Liberty considered in the "bottom rung," of colleges and universities? So why are these "great students," at these "rigorous schools," considering Liberty in the first place? Why not somewhere more prestigious like Duke, Wake Forest or Baylor?

I know several people at LCA who teach/attend so I will not say that they are 'bottom rung'. I think they are better than most public schools around Lynchburg so I can't fault any parent for wanting to send their children there. That being said, the answer to your question is no... LU is not bottom rung. If you want to go by US News rankings, that are flawed from the start then that's on you for being naive. When you actually do real comparisons of quality indicators and you look at the attributes of the programs from a construction and substance standpoint, you start to realize that LU truly is not bottom rung and in fact is on the rise. Is it Duke/Wake/Baylor? No... I don't know that it ever will be because I don't think that's the ultimate goal. But if you look around the higher education world and find another private school, investing in it's campus the same way and growing their enrollment while simultaneously improving their avg entering GPAs/SATs I don't think you'll find much.

Was the LCA scholarship fair to families who sent kids to other schools in the area? No. Is life fair? No. However, everyone in the area knew the deal and ultimately decided where to send their kids to school. You can't please everyone and it is disappointing that people would rather see and/or take joy in the misfortune of others falling into their situation than a solution that would benefit others.

First of all... your statement that life isn't fair could equally be applied to the minority of people who are affected here in comparison to the greater community. But that's not the point of my post. Second, no one here is taking joy, or wants to see the misfortune of others. I'll just leave it at that.

BTW YR...now may be a time to start seeing if LCA will look into doing a dual enrollment, with CVCC like many other area schools. That way, they'll only need two years instead of four at LU. Finally, it was always my understanding that admittance to LU was not guaranteed for LCA grads, but if you got in the scholarship was.

I attended private school all my life until high school when I went public. I attended community college as well... there were challenges, but they made me stronger and helped me to form better arguments for my opinions than what I would have had if I had been in private Christian school my whole life, so I agree with this. While at times I question where JFLJR's heart is in terms of his empathy for the larger community, I do believe that he cares about the legacy of LCA/TRBC/LU. And I believe him when he says that they are working on some things that will continue to help strengthen the ties between the three. Will that provide some sort of assistance for YR and others? I don't know... but I think we should wait to see what will happen before we judge the university for this decision.

[ALUmnus]

I think what's starting to get lost in this, and it stems directly from Junior's comments on the radio...is that LCA isn't just some random school.

And I don't think it can be said that the scholarships were just to fill seats at LU. I don't know this, but I imagine much of the scholarship offered, both at LCA and other area Christian schools, was done as support for those schools, and to encourage more families to send their kids to a Christian school. And in recent years and going forward, I think that's become even more important.

This isn't necessarily about who "deserves" it, but what's the aim. LU is obviously changed its direction here, and personally I don't agree with it.

And lastly, why would you make the announcement just a couple weeks into a new school year and say those new students who are already enrolled and taking classes that they're out of luck? That was kind of heartless.

[Purple Haize]

I think what's starting to get lost in this, and it stems directly from Junior's comments on the radio...is that LCA isn't just some random school.

And I don't think it can be said that the scholarships were just to fill seats at LU. I don't know this, but I imagine much of the scholarship offered, both at LCA and other area Christian schools, was done as support for those schools, and to encourage more families to send their kids to a Christian school. And in recent years and going forward, I think that's become even more important.

This isn't necessarily about who "deserves" it, but what's the aim. LU is obviously changed its direction here, and personally I don't agree with it.

And lastly, why would you make the announcement just a couple weeks into a new school year and say those new students who are already enrolled and taking classes that they're out of luck? That was kind of heartless.

Great points Didn't think of it that way

[ATrain]

LCA may be considered the "bottom rung," but as a graduate, I wouldn't be where I am today without that scholarship and my parents having to find a way to get me from Farmville to Lynchburg 5 days a week (and then, later on, my GA position with the tennis teams). I am happily married, have a great job that makes a direct difference in the lives of hundreds of people a year, and we've been blessed to be able to help out less fortunate friends/family because of the fact we aren't hindered by student loan debt and I have also given back, financially, to the University as a result of where we are. It was a way for middle class families, like mine, who will not qualify for government aid, to give their kids a Christian education throughout life without having to take on a ton of student loan debt that is currently making things difficult for millions of other graduates.

First of all - I'm happy for you and the fact that you are debt free. My wife and I after having graduated nearly 7 years ago still owe nearly $80k in student loans. I worked at LU FT after college as did she for a while, before we got pregnant. No offense to JFLJR, but LU doesn't pay very well. If you look at Glassdoor.com you see that clearly. Sure, I got a degree there for free, but almost every company that has more than 500 employees offers the same education benefits that LU does. Second, there are PLENTY of other college bound students out there that fall under the umbrella of what you just described (myself 10 years ago included). Middle class, no hope of PELL Grants, etc. Why should someone who went to LCA receive a FULL TUITION scholarship simply for graduating from there? I understand and have empathy for the people who are affected by this decision. I think the university could have handled it better by grandfathering everyone at LCA right now under a plan for the greater of what they have earned or 20%. But that doesn't change my opinion of this decision being the best for LU and where they are as a university right now.

BTW SJ, isn't Liberty considered in the "bottom rung," of colleges and universities? So why are these "great students," at these "rigorous schools," considering Liberty in the first place? Why not somewhere more prestigious like Duke, Wake Forest or Baylor?

I know several people at LCA who teach/attend so I will not say that they are 'bottom rung'. I think they are better than most public schools around Lynchburg so I can't fault any parent for wanting to send their children there. That being said, the answer to your question is no... LU is not bottom rung. If you want to go by US News rankings, that are flawed from the start then that's on you for being naive. When you actually do real comparisons of quality indicators and you look at the attributes of the programs from a construction and substance standpoint, you start to realize that LU truly is not bottom rung and in fact is on the rise. Is it Duke/Wake/Baylor? No... I don't know that it ever will be because I don't think that's the ultimate goal. But if you look around the higher education world and find another private school, investing in it's campus the same way and growing their enrollment while simultaneously improving their avg entering GPAs/SATs I don't think you'll find much.

Was the LCA scholarship fair to families who sent kids to other schools in the area? No. Is life fair? No. However, everyone in the area knew the deal and ultimately decided where to send their kids to school. You can't please everyone and it is disappointing that people would rather see and/or take joy in the misfortune of others falling into their situation than a solution that would benefit others.

First of all... your statement that life isn't fair could equally be applied to the minority of people who are affected here in comparison to the greater community. But that's not the point of my post. Second, no one here is taking joy, or wants to see the misfortune of others. I'll just leave it at that.

BTW YR...now may be a time to start seeing if LCA will look into doing a dual enrollment, with CVCC like many other area schools. That way, they'll only need two years instead of four at LU. Finally, it was always my understanding that admittance to LU was not guaranteed for LCA grads, but if you got in the scholarship was.

I attended private school all my life until high school when I went public. I attended community college as well... there were challenges, but they made me stronger and helped me to form better arguments for my opinions than what I would have had if I had been in private Christian school my whole life, so I agree with this. While at times I question where JFLJR's heart is in terms of his empathy for the larger community, I do believe that he cares about the legacy of LCA/TRBC/LU. And I believe him when he says that they are working on some things that will continue to help strengthen the ties between the three. Will that provide some sort of assistance for YR and others? I don't know... but I think we should wait to see what will happen before we judge the university for this decision.

I didn't say LU was bottom rung, I said it was considered SJ went that route with LCA, so that's why I directed the question to him. I received a quality education at LU and defend that educational experience and point out the flaws on the US News rankings on a regular basis amongst my more liberal friends.

Secondly, I get your scenario and I get the question of "Why are LCA grads more deserving than the kids from this school or that school?" However, Jerry Sr. did preach he had a dream of a child going from kindergarten through a doctorate degree getting a quality, Christian education. I remember that being mentioned a few times at TRBC and LCA chapel services. Its even quoted on Liberty's website of Falwell's vision for a Christian educational system:
https://www.liberty.edu/aboutliberty/?PID=6921

In 1967, Falwell implemented his vision to build a Christian educational system for evangelical youth. He began with the establishment of Lynchburg Christian Academy, an accredited Christian day school for grades K-12 . In 1971, he founded Liberty University, an accredited Christian university for evangelical believers. In 1985 Falwell announced his goal of 50,000 students.

I also get that Liberty needed students when this scholarship program was started. Liberty was also in dire financial straits at the time. Today, Liberty is in great financial shape and I get the financial advantage gained through LU Online will not last forever. I also get that we do not want to end up like Sweet Briar College where giving out so much aid (in addition to issues in the administration there) nearly led to its closure.

[R i]

Sounds like most of us agree, cutting the scholorships isnt the what most everyone has a problem with, YR even said that.The major issue is how LCA continued to use the Liberty scholly to increase their recruiting efforts.

So, are Timberlake parents equally wizzed off, or Faith Hurt, do they have parents complaining they never knew ? I would be interested to know if it was just LCA that did a poor job communicating this. If so, its really unfair for parents to expect LU to "do the right thing". LCA should "do the right thing" and provide the students like YR kids what they were promised. I just dont understand why people are throwing this on LU, like Purple said, maybe its because they have the money.

JFLJR didnt have to come on here and explain but he did. Where are LCA brass ? LU will get the black eye here, and thats not fair. So in summary, LCA should be held responsible for their inability to communicate the change. JFLJR is in a tight spot because the church and school arent owning up to a decision he felt was best for the school.

Was LCA just acting like the scholorship would always be there , because they didnt think LU would cut it ? I mean if you know something like this is coming down, it just blows my mind that YR had zero clue.

[olldflame]

I agree that it looks like LCA SHOULD be responsible to pay for any scholarships they promised which are not covered under the university´s change in policy. Based on what little I know of the church´s financial state, I don´t think there is a chance in the world they can do it.

[Yacht Rock]

It's not just us that had zero clue about it but hundreds of other parents.

The reality is that no one has stepped up to take responsibility for what appears to be a massive lack of communication, intentional or not.

At this point, I'd settle for an, "I'm sorry, we really messed up big on this and wrote a check we couldn't cash."

[ALUmnus]

That was a terrible summary by R i, like a revisionist history of the message board. And there are parents at the other schools who are upset as well.

And people are throwing it on LU because they are the ones who made the decision, which I, for one, don't agree with. Sure, LCA acted like amateurs, but they're a small private school who rely heavily on the church and the university. They definitely deserve a lot of the blame. But from my perspective, because I don't agree with LU's decision, I put it mostly on LU.

[R i]

That was a terrible summary by R i, like a revisionist history of the message board. And there are parents at the other schools who are upset as well.

And people are throwing it on LU because they are the ones who made the decision, which I, for one, don't agree with. Sure, LCA acted like amateurs, but they're a small private school who rely heavily on the church and the university. They definitely deserve a lot of the blame. But from my perspective, because I don't agree with LU's decision, I put it mostly on LU.

I asked, did Timberlake parents know ? Did Faith's parents know ?

Im sure they are upset, but did they know ?

[Yacht Rock]

Based on some of the comments from the 860+ people that have signed https://www.change.org/p/jerry-falwell- ... ip-program, there are at least a few of the other affiliate school parents that were broadsided by this.

[Purple Haize]

Sounds like most of us agree, cutting the scholorships isnt the what most everyone has a problem with, YR even said that.The major issue is how LCA continued to use the Liberty scholly to increase their recruiting efforts.

So, are Timberlake parents equally wizzed off, or Faith Hurt, do they have parents complaining they never knew ? I would be interested to know if it was just LCA that did a poor job communicating this. If so, its really unfair for parents to expect LU to "do the right thing". LCA should "do the right thing" and provide the students like YR kids what they were promised. I just dont understand why people are throwing this on LU, like Purple said, maybe its because they have the money.

JFLJR didnt have to come on here and explain but he did. Where are LCA brass ? LU will get the black eye here, and thats not fair. So in summary, LCA should be held responsible for their inability to communicate the change. JFLJR is in a tight spot because the church and school arent owning up to a decision he felt was best for the school.

Was LCA just acting like the scholorship would always be there , because they didnt think LU would cut it ? I mean if you know something like this is coming down, it just blows my mind that YR had zero clue.

When BJ sends you a PM you'd better jump! He had no choice

[SuperJon]

I'm going to get crucified on here for this, but sometimes we hold Doc's vision and dreams at a level just short of the Gospel. Doc had great dreams for our school and he taught all of us to dream big. With that said, those dreams and vision were developed sometimes 50 years ago in a totally different climate than what we're in now. I don't think Doc ever envisioned college tuition to be as expensive as it is today. He probably didn't envision thousands of his students being strapped by student loan debt. While his vision was for a student to be able to go from kindergarten to their doctorate in a Christian environment, the way we make that happen is different in 2015 than it was in 1975. It'll be different in 2025 than it is today.

Dr. Towns has a saying that he beat into our heads in seminary:

Methods are many.
Principles are few.
Methods may change.
But principles never do.

The method for how we allow students to go from kindergarten to their doctorate in a Christian environment is changing. That doesn't mean the principle of it being available is going away.

A question none of us can answer is whether or not Doc's methods for going after his dreams/vision would've changed if he were still leading the school today. What we can do though is trust in our leadership who he chose to follow him once he was gone. We can question what they do and why they do it (and I do that all the time) but to compare them to how Doc would've done things isn't a fair comparison.

[ballcoach15]

If Doc were still with us, this scholarship reduction would never have happened.