[Yacht Rock]

I'm not trolling, but this is an honest question. SJ, would you be in favor of it only being legal to sell cars that are only capable of driving 65-75 mph top speed?

Those are the maximum top speeds in most areas of the US (I understand there are outliers), so be design, many cars are designed to go at speeds which wouldn't comply with the law for most casual drivers.

Why does the average driver need a car that is capable of going 100 miles per hour?

[Cider Jim]

The local paper said the shooter fired 17 rounds. I'm no gun expert, but a 9mm Glock wouldn't hold that many rounds in a single clip, would it?

http://www.newsadvance.com/news/local/p ... 9d97b.html

[SuperJon]

I'm not trolling, but this is an honest question. SJ, would you be in favor of it only being legal to sell cars that are only capable of driving 65-75 mph top speed?

Those are the maximum top speeds in most areas of the US (I understand there are outliers), so be design, many cars are designed to go at speeds which wouldn't comply with the law for most casual drivers.

Why does the average driver need a car that is capable of going 100 miles per hour?

My first response was a jerk so I'm going to edit it to ask this: how is that even a valid comparison?

Cars are meant to get you from point a to point b.

Guns are meant to inflict harm in some way.

[Yacht Rock]

My first response was a jerk so I'm going to edit it to ask this: how is that even a valid comparison?

Cars are meant to get you from point a to point b.

Guns are meant to inflict harm in some way.

I apologize, I thought you were okay with the comparison since earlier you said this.

Here's the thing: in the past 3-4 decades, we have done a ton of things to make cars safer. We've required more training to operate them, put restrictions on people just learning to use them, required seat belts, required airbags, and a load of other things. We've done whatever we could to make driving a car safer while knowing nothing would ever make it completely safe.

Why can't we do the same thing with guns? Why do people who are fearful of losing their guns automatically jump to the furthest conclusion that if we can't eliminate violence completely, we shouldn't do anything? That logic doesn't work anywhere else in life.

The reality is that they both can result in severe injury and loss of life when used irresponsibly.

But you didn't answer the question.

[SuperJon]

I've said all along I don't know the specific regulations to put in place. However, auto vehicle deaths have been on a consistent decline while firearm deaths have been on the rise. One has regulations and the other doesn't.

To be fair and answer your question: no I don't think cars should top out at 75MPH. In order to have sustainability, you can't consistently run any type of machinery at 100% of what it's capable of. The speedometer on my car tops out at 160. 75 is roughly 50% of its max capacity. That percentage is pretty standard across the board for many type of machinery.

With that said, there are regulations in place that if someone is found to be breaking the regulation, even if they don't get in a wreck, they can be fined or have their driving rights revoked. You also have to routinely have your car inspected and/or prove you know how to operate the car.

No amount of regulation will get rid of every shooting, but with the right things in place, we can make progress and make things safer.

My question to you and the other gun rights people: why are you so set in stone that nothing could possibly work? Why aren't you open to some form of regulation that still allows you to have guns?

[flameshaw]

The local paper said the shooter fired 17 rounds. I'm no gun expert, but a 9mm Glock wouldn't hold that many rounds in a single clip, would it?

http://www.newsadvance.com/news/local/p ... 9d97b.html

I believe some glocks will hold 16 with 1 in the chamber. You can also buy extended magazines that will carry 30 rounds, but doubt he had one.

[Yacht Rock]

I've said all along I don't know the specific regulations to put in place. However, auto vehicle deaths have been on a consistent decline while firearm deaths have been on the rise. One has regulations and the other doesn't.

So there aren't firearm regulations?

I understand where you're coming from and that you want to be part of the conversation, but I honestly think you need to study the subject a little more based on statements like that.

Until then, I'm going to see myself out of this conversation.

[SuperJon]

Educate me then. I'm listening. I want to learn. I've admitted where I was wrong. Tell me what I need to know.

[thepostman]

Google is your friend jon. Just sayin.

With that said I do agree there is some kind of common sense middle ground here that should be discussed. It's not all or nothing which i believe most Americans believe that but extremes on both sides of the argument once again get in the way of real progress.

[SuperJon]

I've been researching things when I get the chance but there are obviously things I still don't know.

[alabama24]

Know one thinks I'm logical!

Or a good speller.

[Purple Haize]

Know one thinks I'm logical!

Or a good speller.

Glad someone caught that

[flameshaw]

Don't know how I missed this thread, but it will give me something to do until the Montana, NDSU game starts.
There is not an answer to the question of violence committed with guns. Zero, zip, nada

HO and Medic are absolutely correct in their posts and obviously well educated on the subject.

This violence is a people problem, not a gun problem. You will never get rid of all the guns, unless the guvmint confiscates them all via house to house search. If that happens, we are already gone as a country and have many more problems than gun violence.

You cannot outlaw guns. How did that work with liquor during the prohibition? How do the laws against drugs work today? They only work for the honest people.

You can't keep guns from crazy people. You can come up with any test you want to screen for mental problems before selling a person a gun. What is going to keep them from going postal at a later date? Mental problems can arise at any moment for any person.

Make it harder for people to get guns? Yes, we could do that, but do you really think that is going to keep bad people from getting guns?

What happens when the guvmint takes all the guns away from a people? You might want to ask the American Indian, The Chinese, Germans, Russians, etc.

How many lives are saved every day by good people who carry guns and stop violence that would have happened otherwise?

Why have we never had a mass shooting at a NRA meeting or a gun show?

Cain killed Able with a freaking rock, Timothy McVeigh used fertilizer, you do not need a gun to kill someone. The countries that have tried to outlaw guns have seen violent crime increase exponentially.

I carry a weapon almost every where I go. I do so for the safety of me, my family and innocent people that may cross my path who need help. Just my personal opinion, but I believe every stable person here, should own a self-defense weapon. ONLY after you have researched, learned and practiced on how to use one. (There is so much inaccurate information in this thread it is astounding). I believe you do a disservice to yourself and your family to do otherwise. If you don't protect yourself, chances are no one else will do it for you. (LEO's will, but sometimes they can't always get there in time to help).

[flamehunter]

The local paper said the shooter fired 17 rounds. I'm no gun expert, but a 9mm Glock wouldn't hold that many rounds in a single clip, would it?

http://www.newsadvance.com/news/local/p ... 9d97b.html

I believe some glocks will hold 16 with 1 in the chamber. You can also buy extended magazines that will carry 30 rounds, but doubt he had one.

From the Glock website: Standard magazine capacity is 15 rounds. Optional magazines are 10, 17, and 33.
https://us.glock.com/products/model/g19

[Humble_Opinion]

http://www.businessinsider.com/ap-traff ... ear-2015-8

SJ I'm really not trying to bust your balls here in this thread... traffic deaths are up though in a significant way this year.

I think we all feel saddened by recent events. Prior to deciding whether or not to purchase a firearm I felt a duty to do the research and make a wise decision. I wouldn't say I'm as near as knowledgeable as PA, but I had some of these same questions myself. Guns are a tool. They can be used for both good and for bad. The difference between the two is the person in control of the two. It's as simple as that. I pray I never have to use my weapon to defend myself or my family. I know the repercussions and aftermath would be difficult to deal with, but I ultimately would rather have to deal with the experience than risk the safety of my family. I still maintain that there is a war on traditional American values and principles. Responsible gun ownership is one of those, and it's the one I think we ought to fear the most.

PA - keep the Henry quotes coming sir!

[SuperJon]

You're not busting my balls at all. You know how the internet works. You can likely find an article to back up anything you want. The article I read had a chart of traffic deaths going down but the last year they had data for was like 2012. They likely conveniently left out the data in your article.

Again, I'm not trying to get rid of guns, but I'm enough of an idealist that I'm not comfortable not trying to make them safer. We may not be able to make them 100% safe because people are people, but I'd think 10% safer is a start in the right direction.

[adam42381]

I was searching for LU pics for my fantasy football avatar and stumbled upon this amazing image. Seemed appropriate for this thread.

[jbock13]

I was searching for LU pics for my fantasy football avatar and stumbled upon this amazing image. Seemed appropriate for this thread. :I chortle audibly.:

You forgot the American flag.

[ATrain]

On a somewhat related note, we had another line of duty murder last night here in Houston. Tough time to be wearing blue these days. Your service is appreciated.

+1. Thank you Medic for the work you do, and going off topic for a second: Thank you also to all who are serving or have served in the armed forces.

[PAmedic]

On a somewhat related note, we had another line of duty murder last night here in Houston. Tough time to be wearing blue these days. Your service is appreciated.

yeah saw that. disgusting.

and thx- head on a swivel these days for sure

[ALUmnus]

I know you meant that specifically toward gun purchase rights- but that's because its not something that's important to YOU.

we are in huge trouble in this country if we start restricting individuals' liberty when it isn't something WE care about. The 2nd amendment applies to EVERYONE, just like the 4th amendment, 5th ammendment and 15th amendment

This right here is really important. The trend today is to micromanage society through legislation and court decisions. Bye bye liberty.

Gun safety has dramatically developed over the years, from the guns themselves to safety devices to storage to training and education. But you can't move in the direction where they become so safe that they're useless. And you'll never be able to discard the millions of guns already in circulation that would be deemed "unsafe".

We can't out-regulate bad people in an increasingly immoral society.

[Humble_Opinion]

We can't out-regulate bad people in an increasingly immoral society.

Especially when the very same government refuses to regulate the stream of illegals, drug smugglers, human traffickers and potentially terrorists coming across the borders on a daily basis. Methinks most of those people are probably carrying weapons that already are, or would be considered "illegal".

[PAmedic]

posted this in the FB thread, but worth mentioning again here
***
classy move: well done LU

https://twitter.com/LibertyFootball

Liberty Football ‏@LibertyFootball · 13h13 hours ago
We are grateful for the opportunity to honor and remember Alison Parker and Adam Ward this Saturday. @WDBJ7

[flameshaw]

posted this in the FB thread, but worth mentioning again here
***
classy move: well done LU

https://twitter.com/LibertyFootball

Liberty Football ‏@LibertyFootball · 13h13 hours ago
We are grateful for the opportunity to honor and remember Alison Parker and Adam Ward this Saturday. @WDBJ7