This is the definitive place to discuss everything that makes life on & off campus so unique in Central Virginia.

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By rogers3
Registration Days Posts
#453176
Just another embarrassment. Matt Barber, Liberty Counsel, Ron Godwin, the College Republicans' Meals Tax "battle," and now we have a crooked politician teaching.
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By BCXtreme
Posts
#453177
rogers3 wrote:Just another embarrassment. Matt Barber, Liberty Counsel, Ron Godwin, the College Republicans' Meals Tax "battle," and now we have a crooked politician teaching.
"Crooked politician" is far from established fact at this point. There are conservatives, including Liberty (it seems) and myself, who are quite confident McDonnell is innocent and will be exonerated. Surely you don't think Liberty would do this if that was not the case. Though I will admit, the timing of this could've been thought out better ... okay, way better.

How is the CRLU's meals tax push an embarrassment to the school? CRLU is an unofficial student-run club, Liberty neither controls nor funds them, nor is the school in any way responsible for what CRLU does. And as someone who lived in Lynchburg for years prior to enrolling at Liberty, I have always felt that our meals tax is ridiculously high for our size and wealth level.
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By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#453179
rogers3 wrote:Just another embarrassment. Matt Barber, Liberty Counsel, Ron Godwin, the College Republicans' Meals Tax "battle," and now we have a crooked politician teaching.
Totally disagree. I think this is a great hire. He will cause us no where near the embarrassment certain others high up on the food chain have. The allegations are sketchy at best and were most likely a hit piece. And it worked. IMO, it's a step in the right direction to give LU more credibility.
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By BCXtreme
Posts
#453180
Purple Haize wrote:
rogers3 wrote:Just another embarrassment. Matt Barber, Liberty Counsel, Ron Godwin, the College Republicans' Meals Tax "battle," and now we have a crooked politician teaching.
Totally disagree. I think this is a great hire. He will cause us no where near the embarrassment certain others high up on the food chain have. The allegations are sketchy at best and were most likely a hit piece. And it worked. IMO, it's a step in the right direction to give LU more credibility.
:shock: ... Okay, who are you and what have you done with Purple?

If Purple's comments are actually in earnest and he has not, in fact, suffered a recent blow to the head ... then he is exactly right. McDonnell is a man who made an honest mistake, and upon realizing it, apologized for it and corrected it, just as a good leader should. The insistence on pressing criminal charges against him just screams "witch hunt," and is likely just a political maneuver to keep him from ever running for national office. If we turned out to be wrong about this, I'm sure LU would summarily dismiss him. But when we are proven right and McDonnell is exonerated, it will certainly give LU more credibility.
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By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#453181
BCXtreme wrote:
Purple Haize wrote:
rogers3 wrote:Just another embarrassment. Matt Barber, Liberty Counsel, Ron Godwin, the College Republicans' Meals Tax "battle," and now we have a crooked politician teaching.
Totally disagree. I think this is a great hire. He will cause us no where near the embarrassment certain others high up on the food chain have. The allegations are sketchy at best and were most likely a hit piece. And it worked. IMO, it's a step in the right direction to give LU more credibility.
:shock: ... Okay, who are you and what have you done with Purple?

If Purple's comments are actually in earnest and he has not, in fact, suffered a recent blow to the head ... then he is exactly right. McDonnell is a man who made an honest mistake, and upon realizing it, apologized for it and corrected it, just as a good leader should. The insistence on pressing criminal charges against him just screams "witch hunt," and is likely just a political maneuver to keep him from ever running for national office. If we turned out to be wrong about this, I'm sure LU would summarily dismiss him. But when we are proven right and McDonnell is exonerated, it will certainly give LU more credibility.
Being the Potentate of the :flamingdevil does not mean you disagree with every LU decision. It's why certain people have been barred entry
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By BCXtreme
Posts
#453183
Purple Haize wrote:Being the Potentate of the :flamingdevil does not mean you disagree with every LU decision. It's why certain people have been barred entry
Fair enough. Bonus respect points earned.
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By BJWilliams
Registration Days Posts
#453185
I dont say this often but I agree with PH. McDonnell is a great addition. I know youre jaded from the Godwin and Matt Barber nonsense Rogers but you cant instantly call every decision an embarrassment
By rogers3
Registration Days Posts
#453189
BJWilliams wrote:I dont say this often but I agree with PH. McDonnell is a great addition. I know youre jaded from the Godwin and Matt Barber nonsense Rogers but you cant instantly call every decision an embarrassment
Well, most people who have followed this closely, far longer than the indictment has been news, know the the Gov. Was well aware that what he was doing was technically legal, but not something he really wanted public. His defense early in the discussion was that he wanted to ban such actions, but they were not illegal at that time. McDonnell has also lost some friends in typically friendly quarters by forcing announcements of job creations that were not properly represented. A couple of these were made in Lynchburg... One was a deal that his office helped along with taxpayer dollars, which led to the"hiring" of employees that were actually transferred from one company to their longtime outsourcing vendor. Economic Devt officials were peeved because a) no one was ever really hired... No new jobs, and 2) wages and benefits were decreased in the deal, even though the state gave the vendor substantial grants that might have actually been used to create some real jobs.

BJ... While knee-jerk reactions might be par for the course for many comments, I have put more thought into this than you might think.
By rogers3
Registration Days Posts
#453190
BCXtreme wrote:
rogers3 wrote:Just another embarrassment. Matt Barber, Liberty Counsel, Ron Godwin, the College Republicans' Meals Tax "battle," and now we have a crooked politician teaching.
"Crooked politician" is far from established fact at this point. There are conservatives, including Liberty (it seems) and myself, who are quite confident McDonnell is innocent and will be exonerated. Surely you don't think Liberty would do this if that was not the case. Though I will admit, the timing of this could've been thought out better ... okay, way better.

How is the CRLU's meals tax push an embarrassment to the school? CRLU is an unofficial student-run club, Liberty neither controls nor funds them, nor is the school in any way responsible for what CRLU does. And as someone who lived in Lynchburg for years prior to enrolling at Liberty, I have always felt that our meals tax is ridiculously high for our size and wealth level.
I responded to BJ regarding McDonnell. This story has been going on for a while, and McDonnells early comments on the matter do taint his character in my opinion as well as plenty of others. I'd say this is very questionable behavior

Secondly, the whole LU Republican club thing is pretty dumb... I would just as soon see that tax stick around so that the city can recoup a bit of money from the students who utilize city parks, roads, emergency services, etc. If LU was generating jobs that paid even close to what typical schools pay, maybe I'd think differently, but remember, we pride ourselves on not letting the insane run the asylum. The labor force from LU doesn't add substantially to the tax base by adding higher wage earners to the population within the city, unless we are talking about guys like Johnny Moore. I certainly don't take the position that LU is a non-factor in our economy, but the student body contributes a relatively small amount to the city, and I certainly don't want the future of Lynchburg determined by idealistic youngsters who, for the most part, are here for 4 years or less. If you don't like the meals and lodging tax, you can always go out to the counties. A use tax is often bandied about by conservative people, but if it can change city council, the LU Republicans are against it. It won't matter because the candidates that they are endorsing are pretty well doomed.
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By BCXtreme
Posts
#453191
rogers3 wrote:I responded to BJ regarding McDonnell. This story has been going on for a while, and McDonnells early comments on the matter do taint his character in my opinion as well as plenty of others. I'd say this is very questionable behavior
I also followed the story from the beginning. As for that particular article? IMHO, nothing in there is sufficient to prevent him from teaching a few government classes as a visiting professor, nor to label him a "crooked politician." Every politician occasionally has "questionable behavior," that doesn't make them "crooked"; nobody's perfect. When the matter was finally sorted out, and it was determined that the sequence of events and way in which money was exchanged was not acceptable, he publicly apologized for the mistake and set things straight financially. He was an outgoing governor, likely facing federal investigation either way: he had no obligation to react that way, but he chose to. Plenty of people would call that "the right thing to do." You're entitled to your opinion, and yes, many people do share it. But many people share mine too.
rogers3 wrote:Secondly, the whole LU Republican club thing is pretty dumb... I would just as soon see that tax stick around so that the city can recoup a bit of money from the students who utilize city parks, roads, emergency services, etc. If LU was generating jobs that paid even close to what typical schools pay, maybe I'd think differently, but remember, we pride ourselves on not letting the insane run the asylum. The labor force from LU doesn't add substantially to the tax base by adding higher wage earners to the population within the city, unless we are talking about guys like Johnny Moore. I certainly don't take the position that LU is a non-factor in our economy, but the student body contributes a relatively small amount to the city, and I certainly don't want the future of Lynchburg determined by idealistic youngsters who, for the most part, are here for 4 years or less. If you don't like the meals and lodging tax, you can always go out to the counties. A use tax is often bandied about by conservative people, but if it can change city council, the LU Republicans are against it. It won't matter because the candidates that they are endorsing are pretty well doomed.
First of all, nothing in that whole paragraph explains how the CRLU position is an embarrassment to the school. Why would any rational person blame a university for the legally-expressed political positions of an unofficial student club? We have free speech in this country, and nothing they've said is an abuse of that.

Based on the numbers I've seen, LU contributes massively to the local economy in many different ways. Besides direct tax revenue, consider the number of taxpaying businesses established and subsequent jobs created that likely would never have come to Lynchburg if not for the increased traffic and consumer base that LU generates here. Consider the increase in tourism. LU faculty/staff who pay property taxes are not the only significant source of revenue here. Nobody is saying the meals tax should be eliminated. I moved to Lynchburg years before becoming an LU student, and to Central Virginia years before that. I did not move here to attend LU; I am a permanent resident. It has long been my opinion, and that of my middle-class family, that the meals tax is insanely high for this city's size and culture. The CRLU position is completely reasonable: lower the tax to something more sensible, and it might actually raise revenue because students will be more willing to eat off campus within the city limits. They are hardly alone in that position.

---

I have only one more thought to contribute to this conversation, and then I'm done. Reading your posts makes one thing abundantly clear: your arguments on these topics are based almost entirely on your own personal political views. There's nothing wrong with that, but realize that your arguments cannot be considered objective under those circumstances. If you are embarrassed by these two things, that is your prerogative. But Liberty University currently has no reason to be embarrassed by either of these things.

Live Long and Prosper
By ATrain
Registration Days Posts
#453195
It may have been more prudent to wait until after he was exonerated, but this is definitely a good move by the university. Now if we can Condoleeza Rice to teach a few courses...
By rogers3
Registration Days Posts
#453234
BCXtreme wrote:
I have only one more thought to contribute to this conversation, and then I'm done. Reading your posts makes one thing abundantly clear: your arguments on these topics are based almost entirely on your own personal political views. There's nothing wrong with that, but realize that your arguments cannot be considered objective under those circumstances. If you are embarrassed by these two things, that is your prerogative. But Liberty University currently has no reason to be embarrassed by either of these things.
Last comment on McDonnell- he is either naive, a crook, or an idiot. Whichever one chooses, he seems to fit in nicely with a fair number of bonehead hires that we have seen over the years. I'm sure that there are people who love Staver and Barber and have no qualms about those guys, either.

I think that I have communicated my feelings rather poorly in regards to the CRLU. These students should and do have every right to vote or involve themselves in local politics. What really rankles me and gets most locals a bit frustrated, as well, is that students seem to often take the position that the City is out to get them and they respond without putting much thought into the issues. The impression that I'm left with is that often, the issues are broached by people at the school who are not students, and obviously the CRLU will gladly pick up the torch if prompted. It takes many, many students to equal the tax burden I pay within the city; when students start shouldering the tax burdens that typical residents do (maybe registering their car in the city?), I might join them in their fight to lower tax. Educated voters seek the lowering of taxes like the BPOL tax, which does more to promote business than any lowering of the meals tax would. Now, before you brush this off as me just having an anti-LU student rant, check around- you'll find plenty of folks who don't think that people who get government welfare in one form or another should vote. That is a conservative idea, not one rooted in liberal thought. Don't forget, there was a time when only landowners could vote and I know plenty of right-wing wackos who like that idea.
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By prototype
Registration Days Posts
#453249
I think judging people, no matter what you think you know, is wrong - no matter how you slice it...

Barber - Don't even know who he is, but I'm guessing he went to Liberty. So everyone that leaves Liberty has to be perfect?

Liberty Counsel is a bad thing?

Ron Godwin? Are you serious? You might not agree with him or believe he's an academic, but he's one of the smartest people I know and I would have no problem having him teach my kids everything he knows. He lead one of the most powerful newspapers in the world and I have NEVER had a problem with him and I'm sure that I have worked with him, professionally, more than 99% of you.

Meals Tax Battle - really?

Man - I hope you never get accused of anything or heaven forbid make any mistakes. The guy was our Governor!! He now teaches at our school... That can't be a bad thing. Unless he's Obama and then...
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By alabama24
Registration Days Posts
#453258
prototype wrote: Meals Tax Battle - really?

Are you pro meals tax or anti? I think a meals tax is more "fair" and "reasonable" than increased property taxes.
prototype wrote:I think judging people, no matter what you think you know, is wrong - no matter how you slice it...
prototype wrote:Unless he's Obama and then...

So it is wrong to judge Republicans, but not democrats. Check. :lol:
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By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#453259
prototype wrote: Ron Godwin? Are you serious? You might not agree with him or believe he's an academic, but he's one of the smartest people I know and I would have no problem having him teach my kids everything he knows. He lead one of the most powerful newspapers in the world and I have NEVER had a problem with him and I'm sure that I have worked with him, professionally, more than 99% of you.
..
You need to meet more people.


Of course he could officiate your kids wedding
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Or get someone to pray for you when sick
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By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#453263
BuryYourDuke wrote:
prototype wrote:Ron Godwin? I would have no problem having him teach my kids everything he knows. He lead one of the most powerful newspapers in the world and I have NEVER had a problem with him and I'm sure that I have worked with him, professionally, more than 99% of you.
So you would let him teach your kids about the good Reverend and his plans to reclaim American Christianity?
Pure gold

https://mobile.twitter.com/fakeRonGodwin
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By adam42381
Registration Days Posts
#453269
prototype wrote:Ron Godwin? I would have no problem having him teach my kids everything he knows. He lead one of the most powerful newspapers in the world and I have NEVER had a problem with him and I'm sure that I have worked with him, professionally, more than 99% of you.
The Washington Times? :dontgetit
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By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#453270
adam42381 wrote:
prototype wrote:Ron Godwin? I would have no problem having him teach my kids everything he knows. He lead one of the most powerful newspapers in the world and I have NEVER had a problem with him and I'm sure that I have worked with him, professionally, more than 99% of you.
The Washington Times? :dontgetit
G Gordon Liddy used to just read articles out of it for his radio show. He's pretty powerful looking.
By rogers3
Registration Days Posts
#453271
Purple Haize wrote:
adam42381 wrote:
prototype wrote:Ron Godwin? I would have no problem having him teach my kids everything he knows. He lead one of the most powerful newspapers in the world and I have NEVER had a problem with him and I'm sure that I have worked with him, professionally, more than 99% of you.
The Washington Times? :dontgetit
G Gordon Liddy used to just read articles out of it for his radio show. He's pretty powerful looking.
:lol:
User avatar
By prototype
Registration Days Posts
#453304
alabama24 wrote:
prototype wrote: Meals Tax Battle - really?

Are you pro meals tax or anti? I think a meals tax is more "fair" and "reasonable" than increased property taxes.
prototype wrote:I think judging people, no matter what you think you know, is wrong - no matter how you slice it...
prototype wrote:Unless he's Obama and then...

So it is wrong to judge Republicans, but not democrats. Check. :I chortle audibly.:
Hey Alabama. Obama thing was a joke, but I feel like I know more about Obama and I'm really not going to judge him personally, just his politics - which affect me.

I am pro meals tax, but extremely against EXCESSIVE Meals Tax and that's what we have here. I'm fine with a meal's tax, but what we have here is ridiculous. I admire the Liberty group for taking a stand against it, as it needs to be addressed. Some localities don't have an additional meal's tax, but are happy with what they make from taxes and not to mention the jobs that are created by the restaurants. Our rate is higher then any location that I have found and what you have to understand is how low of margins restaurants have to run on these days to make it work. Most restaurants, if successful, only have margins between 6-8% - the City making 6.5% off the top is absurd. That's 11.8% of every dollar going to the state and the city. Now - people will argue that it is paid by our customers, BUT that's not true - we have to adjust our prices to account for it or we will price ourselves out of the market. I'm not saying they should bump up real estate taxes, I'm saying that Lynchburg should become a business friendlier city and encourage more business' to come in. Between license fees, meals tax, sign ordinance, etc... it's hard for locally owned restaurants to make it.

Roanoke - 5.3%
Charlottesville - 4%
Fairfax - 4%
New York - 0% (Before you say their state taxes are higher - total tax in NYC - 8.875%, Lynchburg, VA - 11.8%
LA - 0%
Indianapolis - 0%
Detroit - 0%
Boston - .75%
Baltimore - 0%
Virginia Beach - 5.5%
Raleigh - 1%

Fact is Lynchburg charges more in taxes then the top 100 markets in the US. The top US market for Meal's tax was Minneapolis in 2012 at a total tax rate of 10.775 - Lynchburg is 11.8%. Are you seeing it now????? What is this extra tax money going towards? 12 million a year in meal's tax alone going to our city... Do you know about the Lodging tax? Where's that going now that City basically shutdown the Tourism Program? Seeing a pattern here?

Source - http://taxfoundation.org/article/meals- ... s-cities-0


I can honestly say that I haven't researched Dr. Godwin like everyone on this board has, but I will make my conclusions on his character based on what I know and have seen personally from him, not what I have heard, read or any associations that he has had in the past. Companies all over the world are owned by controversial figures, but most who work for them don't share the same ideas and look at it as merely a job... I would stand beside Dr. Godwin any day of the week, until he gives me a reason to doubt his intentions, character or motives.
User avatar
By prototype
Registration Days Posts
#453305
Purple Haize wrote:
adam42381 wrote:
prototype wrote:Ron Godwin? I would have no problem having him teach my kids everything he knows. He lead one of the most powerful newspapers in the world and I have NEVER had a problem with him and I'm sure that I have worked with him, professionally, more than 99% of you.
The Washington Times? :dontgetit
G Gordon Liddy used to just read articles out of it for his radio show. He's pretty powerful looking.
It's one of two papers published in our Nation's Capital - it's not the NEW York Post, but it's not N&A either.
By ATrain
Registration Days Posts
#453310
prototype wrote:
alabama24 wrote:
prototype wrote: Meals Tax Battle - really?

Are you pro meals tax or anti? I think a meals tax is more "fair" and "reasonable" than increased property taxes.
prototype wrote:I think judging people, no matter what you think you know, is wrong - no matter how you slice it...
prototype wrote:Unless he's Obama and then...

So it is wrong to judge Republicans, but not democrats. Check. :I chortle audibly.:
Hey Alabama. Obama thing was a joke, but I feel like I know more about Obama and I'm really not going to judge him personally, just his politics - which affect me.

I am pro meals tax, but extremely against EXCESSIVE Meals Tax and that's what we have here. I'm fine with a meal's tax, but what we have here is ridiculous. I admire the Liberty group for taking a stand against it, as it needs to be addressed. Some localities don't have an additional meal's tax, but are happy with what they make from taxes and not to mention the jobs that are created by the restaurants. Our rate is higher then any location that I have found and what you have to understand is how low of margins restaurants have to run on these days to make it work. Most restaurants, if successful, only have margins between 6-8% - the City making 6.5% off the top is absurd. That's 11.8% of every dollar going to the state and the city. Now - people will argue that it is paid by our customers, BUT that's not true - we have to adjust our prices to account for it or we will price ourselves out of the market. I'm not saying they should bump up real estate taxes, I'm saying that Lynchburg should become a business friendlier city and encourage more business' to come in. Between license fees, meals tax, sign ordinance, etc... it's hard for locally owned restaurants to make it.

Roanoke - 5.3%
Charlottesville - 4%
Fairfax - 4%
New York - 0% (Before you say their state taxes are higher - total tax in NYC - 8.875%, Lynchburg, VA - 11.8%
LA - 0%
Indianapolis - 0%
Detroit - 0%
Boston - .75%
Baltimore - 0%
Virginia Beach - 5.5%
Raleigh - 1%

Fact is Lynchburg charges more in taxes then the top 100 markets in the US. The top US market for Meal's tax was Minneapolis in 2012 at a total tax rate of 10.775 - Lynchburg is 11.8%. Are you seeing it now????? What is this extra tax money going towards? 12 million a year in meal's tax alone going to our city... Do you know about the Lodging tax? Where's that going now that City basically shutdown the Tourism Program? Seeing a pattern here?

Source - http://taxfoundation.org/article/meals- ... s-cities-0


I can honestly say that I haven't researched Dr. Godwin like everyone on this board has, but I will make my conclusions on his character based on what I know and have seen personally from him, not what I have heard, read or any associations that he has had in the past. Companies all over the world are owned by controversial figures, but most who work for them don't share the same ideas and look at it as merely a job... I would stand beside Dr. Godwin any day of the week, until he gives me a reason to doubt his intentions, character or motives.
The math in your comparisons is flawed. Lynchburg's meals tax rate is 6.5%, which when coupled with the state's sales tax rate of 5.3% gives you the 11.8%. You cited VA Beach as being only 5.5%, but considering the sales tax rate in hampton roads is 6%, that gives you an effective tax rate of 11.5%. There is absolutely no way Roanoke, Fairfax, or Charlottesville can be that low if you're going to factor state sales tax + city meals tax.
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