[ballah09]

I heard this from a grad student within the science dept btw. I don't think so per se. It's a slippery slope kind of thing. They're still going to teach evolution as a theory rather then fact. Just not going to require students to take the history of life class to counter it. I also know they want to be more of a research university and eventually build a research facility strictly for research. So I don't know if they're doing this to get future grants. I mean students outside of religion majors/minors can take the classes if they choose to and like I said its not gone completely just moved into a different dept. If they are still teaching creationism i tend to think they still believe in it i just don't know if their views on the 6,000 year old world shifted or not. I really don't know what else to say lol. Liberty has been changing so.

[Purple Haize]

I heard this from a grad student within the science dept btw. I don't think so per se. It's a slippery slope kind of thing. They're still going to teach evolution as a theory rather then fact. Just not going to require students to take the history of life class to counter it. I also know they want to be more of a research university and eventually build a research facility strictly for research. So I don't know if they're doing this to get future grants. I mean students outside of religion majors/minors can take the classes if they choose to and like I said its not gone completely just moved into a different dept. If they are still teaching creationism i tend to think they still believe in it i just don't know if their views on the 6,000 year old world shifted or not. I really don't know what else to say lol. Liberty has been changing so.

Being an Non 6 Day Creationist used to make one a Heretic at LU. I am shocked not shocked they are doing something like this. I would hope they would still require the class maybe with different Creation Theories.
But you are correct. It is a slippery slope. I mean if I'm a Business Major am I really going to take this course as an elective. Thus IMO, reducing the the uniqueness of the LU experience

[Sly Fox]

If these rumors are true, I don't think spells the end of the Liberty experience as we know it. But I certainly has a great deal to do with efforts to try and take away the primary ammunition of our school's detractors in academia. Creation science was the most common shot at Liberty on the various boards I have crossed since our announcement. This should silence some critics. But I agree that I hope it doesn't signal backpedaling on the foundations on which are school was founded.

[BJWilliams]

I agree...i don't need to be saving money for an acetylene torch and giant gas can

[ballah09]

I don't think its the end of the world if this comes to fruition. A creation class doesn't make or break a Liberty experience. students are still going to experience, Convo, Worshipping plus the religion classes they have to take.

Lastly, I really don't know why some people would get so bent out of shape over something like this and go off the deep end. I'm not referring anyone on here but to the people who would if this happens. Liberty always taught evolution. They are just making it optional for students to take a creation class. It being under theology such a dramatic thing? other wise everything is still there

[Purple Haize]

If these rumors are true, I don't think spells the end of the Liberty experience as we know it. But I certainly has a great deal to do with efforts to try and take away the primary ammunition of our school's detractors in academia. Creation science was the most common shot at Liberty on the various boards I have crossed since our announcement. This should silence some critics. But I agree that I hope it doesn't signal backpedaling on the foundations on which are school was founded.

So LU is trying to adjust what it does and teaches to be better accepted for........Football. Wow.
Sit back and think of the Mission of the school and what you just posted. While some would argue that taking it out of Science and housing it in Theology is an issue I'm not one of those. By your own admission, however, 'they' are taking shots at LU because they even teach Creationism. So instead of bolstering its students to defend their position, they go the opposite direction. Now students will only be offered the option of learning about something that is one of the Fundamentals of the Faith. Now they will go out into the world less than fully trained 'Champions For Christ'. All to 'silence critics' so LU can be more accepted to play football
Let's hope this is an unfounded rumor

[ATrain]

Would you be happy if it were required with just the label as a theology course?

[Purple Haize]

Would you be happy if it were required with just the label as a theology course?

Yes, but there are others in the LU community who would not be. If this turns out to be true and they actually announced it in one of the publications from the University it would cause a ruckus. Teaching and helping students understand and defend their Christian beliefs would seem like a no brainer to LU's core mission. By making it an elective it puts it in the category of Underwater Basketweaving.
Basically to me taking away the 'required' part is what is disturbing.

[ballah09]

I did talk to an old buddy of mine who has a son that is a ministry major. He says this does has legs so. It would be starting next year. and again it will be required for all religion/ministry majors. So if you look at it technically students going out in the world preaching will be learning creationism to defend christianity. Compared to a sports management or a business majors who has no need for the class. I really don't see the big deal again. Its required for those who do need it going out spreading the word.

lastly you know liberty, they keep everything under wraps.

[Sly Fox]

If these rumors are true, I don't think spells the end of the Liberty experience as we know it. But I certainly has a great deal to do with efforts to try and take away the primary ammunition of our school's detractors in academia. Creation science was the most common shot at Liberty on the various boards I have crossed since our announcement. This should silence some critics. But I agree that I hope it doesn't signal backpedaling on the foundations on which are school was founded.

So LU is trying to adjust what it does and teaches to be better accepted for........Football. Wow.
Sit back and think of the Mission of the school and what you just posted. While some would argue that taking it out of Science and housing it in Theology is an issue I'm not one of those. By your own admission, however, 'they' are taking shots at LU because they even teach Creationism. So instead of bolstering its students to defend their position, they go the opposite direction. Now students will only be offered the option of learning about something that is one of the Fundamentals of the Faith. Now they will go out into the world less than fully trained 'Champions For Christ'. All to 'silence critics' so LU can be more accepted to play football
Let's hope this is an unfounded rumor

Ay caramba! You completely misinterpreted my post. I was referring to academic standing and not athletics. The FBS move brought the wolves out with their fangs showing in regard to our academics. But that is not to state that we are placating anyone by moving a class between departments. We are talking primarily about semantics in regard to the labeling IMHO. I don't believe we are changing our principles and stance. If we were, that would change things significantly.

[PAmedic]

This will tick off the last remaining 5% or so of kids that come from a fundamentalist background otherwise I seriously doubt the other 95,000 people that enroll at LU will give two craps.

Right or wrong IDK

[Purple Haize]

I did talk to an old buddy of mine who has a son that is a ministry major. He says this does has legs so. It would be starting next year. and again it will be required for all religion/ministry majors. So if you look at it technically students going out in the world preaching will be learning creationism to defend christianity. Compared to a sports management or a business majors who has no need for the class. I really don't see the big deal again. Its required for those who do need it going out spreading the word.

lastly you know liberty, they keep everything under wraps.

Not to do a Jesus Juke but wouldn't we all be called to Spread The Word? By this logic why require any Bible/Religion/Theology classes at all?

[Purple Haize]

If these rumors are true, I don't think spells the end of the Liberty experience as we know it. But I certainly has a great deal to do with efforts to try and take away the primary ammunition of our school's detractors in academia. Creation science was the most common shot at Liberty on the various boards I have crossed since our announcement. This should silence some critics. But I agree that I hope it doesn't signal backpedaling on the foundations on which are school was founded.

So LU is trying to adjust what it does and teaches to be better accepted for........Football. Wow.
Sit back and think of the Mission of the school and what you just posted. While some would argue that taking it out of Science and housing it in Theology is an issue I'm not one of those. By your own admission, however, 'they' are taking shots at LU because they even teach Creationism. So instead of bolstering its students to defend their position, they go the opposite direction. Now students will only be offered the option of learning about something that is one of the Fundamentals of the Faith. Now they will go out into the world less than fully trained 'Champions For Christ'. All to 'silence critics' so LU can be more accepted to play football
Let's hope this is an unfounded rumor

Ay caramba! You completely misinterpreted my post. I was referring to academic standing and not athletics. The FBS move brought the wolves out with their fangs showing in regard to our academics. But that is not to state that we are placating anyone by moving a class between departments. We are talking primarily about semantics in regard to the labeling IMHO. I don't believe we are changing our principles and stance. If we were, that would change things significantly.

I could not care less whether it is labeled Theo or Sci. As I said to ATrain, it's a matter of it being a required or an elective.
The timing of the move certainly is suspicious

[Sly Fox]

Nothing has been called at this point. And the discussion has been going on long before we thought we'd gain this waiver.

[ballah09]

I did talk to an old buddy of mine who has a son that is a ministry major. He says this does has legs so. It would be starting next year. and again it will be required for all religion/ministry majors. So if you look at it technically students going out in the world preaching will be learning creationism to defend christianity. Compared to a sports management or a business majors who has no need for the class. I really don't see the big deal again. Its required for those who do need it going out spreading the word.

lastly you know liberty, they keep everything under wraps.

Not to do a Jesus Juke but wouldn't we all be called to Spread The Word? By this logic why require any Bible/Religion/Theology classes at all?

I hate Jesus jukes. Not everyone wants to spread the word. thats why we have those classes specifically for those who want to. How many business majors are looking to spread the gospel? not many.

and this has been in the works for a while so its not a football thing. I wouldn't be surprised if they make a little statement like Baylor regarding evolution. notice they don't state it as fact. just abiding to the AAAS statement just for research funding. I really think they're going this route. hence moving creationism to theology and keeping their 6 day stance and doing scientific research.

http://www.baylor.edu/biology/index.php?id=77368

[Sly Fox]

Baylor has long held a position that creation is allegory. Last I heard they had run the last creationist out of the school a decade or so ago.

[TH Spangler]

Why not study creation, evolution and adaptation together? Science is full of unanswered questions?

It is difficult enough to imagine a time, roughly 13.7 billion years ago, when the entire universe existed as a singularity. According to the big bang theory, one of the main contenders vying to explain how the universe came to be, all the matter in the cosmos -- all of space itself -- existed in a form smaller than a subatomic particle.

Once you think about that, an even more difficult question arises: What existed just before the big bang occurred?

[ballah09]

You can't test creation. You can't use creation anywhere besides theology and if you ever took a creation class at liberty they'll tell you it's 97% theology.

And sly yes they did but unlike Baylor Liberty is keeping classes just moving them. I believe they will make a statement like theirs. It's a blanket statement. Not saying anything besides acknowledgment and teaching evolution. Liberty already does that. Side note Baylor has Francis Collins and Stephen miller works all over their biology page.

[ATrain]

I did talk to an old buddy of mine who has a son that is a ministry major. He says this does has legs so. It would be starting next year. and again it will be required for all religion/ministry majors. So if you look at it technically students going out in the world preaching will be learning creationism to defend christianity. Compared to a sports management or a business majors who has no need for the class. I really don't see the big deal again. Its required for those who do need it going out spreading the word.

lastly you know liberty, they keep everything under wraps.

Not to do a Jesus Juke but wouldn't we all be called to Spread The Word? By this logic why require any Bible/Religion/Theology classes at all?

I hate Jesus jukes. Not everyone wants to spread the word. thats why we have those classes specifically for those who want to. How many business majors are looking to spread the gospel? not many.

and this has been in the works for a while so its not a football thing. I wouldn't be surprised if they make a little statement like Baylor regarding evolution. notice they don't state it as fact. just abiding to the AAAS statement just for research funding. I really think they're going this route. hence moving creationism to theology and keeping their 6 day stance and doing scientific research.

http://www.baylor.edu/biology/index.php?id=77368

Not everyone goes and necessarily preaches from a pulpit, but the great commission is to go and make disciples. People may not necessarily be looking to get hired at a Fortune 500 company to be a chaplain, but they should live their lives producing the fruit of the Spirit and be ready to answer questions.

That said, it is not a requirement that one be a Young Earth Creationist to be covered by the blood of Christ.

[Purple Haize]

I did talk to an old buddy of mine who has a son that is a ministry major. He says this does has legs so. It would be starting next year. and again it will be required for all religion/ministry majors. So if you look at it technically students going out in the world preaching will be learning creationism to defend christianity. Compared to a sports management or a business majors who has no need for the class. I really don't see the big deal again. Its required for those who do need it going out spreading the word.

lastly you know liberty, they keep everything under wraps.

Not to do a Jesus Juke but wouldn't we all be called to Spread The Word? By this logic why require any Bible/Religion/Theology classes at all?

I hate Jesus jukes. Not everyone wants to spread the word. thats why we have those classes specifically for those who want to. How many business majors are looking to spread the gospel? not many.

and this has been in the works for a while so its not a football thing. I wouldn't be surprised if they make a little statement like Baylor regarding evolution. notice they don't state it as fact. just abiding to the AAAS statement just for research funding. I really think they're going this route. hence moving creationism to theology and keeping their 6 day stance and doing scientific research.

http://www.baylor.edu/biology/index.php?id=77368

Wow. Your first paragraph (other than the first Sentence) is truly a sad statement. I hope this is not what is being taught at LU. That is so unBiblical I wouldn't even know where to start.

[Purple Haize]

Not everyone goes and necessarily preaches from a pulpit, but the great commission is to go and make disciples. People may not necessarily be looking to get hired at a Fortune 500 company to be a chaplain, but they should live their lives producing the fruit of the Spirit and be ready to answer questions.

That said, it is not a requirement that one be a Young Earth Creationist to be covered by the blood of Christ.

Let me be clear. For starters you are spot on. We all spread the Gospel in our lives Or at least should be
Secondly, I'm personally not a Young Earth person, but I am a Creationist. There is more than one school of thought on that topic. And it should be required to learn about them all. It's one of the unique things that sets Christianity apart.
Thirdly, yes this has been 'in the works' but why? Remember when LU (fortunately IMO) got shut out of the Sun Belt? Do you not think the thought process was 'Gee, what would make us more palatable to Conference Presidents?' And thus, pardon the pun, was the Genesis of the idea.
Again, I hope this is something that does not happen. It does nothing to further the Faith of students at LU. There is no 'upside' to doing this.

[ALUmnus]

So LU is trying to adjust what it does and teaches to be better accepted for........Football. Wow.
Sit back and think of the Mission of the school and what you just posted. While some would argue that taking it out of Science and housing it in Theology is an issue I'm not one of those. By your own admission, however, 'they' are taking shots at LU because they even teach Creationism. So instead of bolstering its students to defend their position, they go the opposite direction. Now students will only be offered the option of learning about something that is one of the Fundamentals of the Faith. Now they will go out into the world less than fully trained 'Champions For Christ'. All to 'silence critics' so LU can be more accepted to play football
Let's hope this is an unfounded rumor

Unfortunately, I feel this has been the trajectory of the school for a while now. Unless it's about guns or gays, LU doesn't seem to have a firm position on anything. If Junior doesn't care about it, then it's open to discussion.

Also, I've never heard of this class. Is this the old Apologetics 101/102? If so, that's a shame to make optional. Dr. Spohn was one of my favorite teachers, and the course is an eye-opener for most students who come to LU from a public school. I don't understand how Ballah09 thinks that preachers and theology students should now be our only defenders of science. Just an odd position. This isn't a Gospel issue but a truth issue.

[ATrain]

So LU is trying to adjust what it does and teaches to be better accepted for........Football. Wow.
Sit back and think of the Mission of the school and what you just posted. While some would argue that taking it out of Science and housing it in Theology is an issue I'm not one of those. By your own admission, however, 'they' are taking shots at LU because they even teach Creationism. So instead of bolstering its students to defend their position, they go the opposite direction. Now students will only be offered the option of learning about something that is one of the Fundamentals of the Faith. Now they will go out into the world less than fully trained 'Champions For Christ'. All to 'silence critics' so LU can be more accepted to play football
Let's hope this is an unfounded rumor

Unfortunately, I feel this has been the trajectory of the school for a while now. Unless it's about guns or gays, LU doesn't seem to have a firm position on anything. If Junior doesn't care about it, then it's open to discussion.

Also, I've never heard of this class. Is this the old Apologetics 101/102? If so, that's a shame to make optional. Dr. Spohn was one of my favorite teachers, and the course is an eye-opener for most students who come to LU from a public school. I don't understand how Ballah09 thinks that preachers and theology students should now be our only defenders of science. Just an odd position. This isn't a Gospel issue but a truth issue.

No, its CRST - taught by Dr. Dewitt.

[Purple Haize]

So LU is trying to adjust what it does and teaches to be better accepted for........Football. Wow.
Sit back and think of the Mission of the school and what you just posted. While some would argue that taking it out of Science and housing it in Theology is an issue I'm not one of those. By your own admission, however, 'they' are taking shots at LU because they even teach Creationism. So instead of bolstering its students to defend their position, they go the opposite direction. Now students will only be offered the option of learning about something that is one of the Fundamentals of the Faith. Now they will go out into the world less than fully trained 'Champions For Christ'. All to 'silence critics' so LU can be more accepted to play football
Let's hope this is an unfounded rumor

Unfortunately, I feel this has been the trajectory of the school for a while now. Unless it's about guns or gays, LU doesn't seem to have a firm position on anything. If Junior doesn't care about it, then it's open to discussion.

Also, I've never heard of this class. Is this the old Apologetics 101/102? If so, that's a shame to make optional. Dr. Spohn was one of my favorite teachers, and the course is an eye-opener for most students who come to LU from a public school. I don't understand how Ballah09 thinks that preachers and theology students should now be our only defenders of science. Just an odd position. This isn't a Gospel issue but a truth issue.

Where is the mic drop emoji?

[JK37]

I hate Jesus jukes. Not everyone wants to spread the word. thats why we have those classes specifically for those who want to. How many business majors are looking to spread the gospel?

This is shameful thinking. Is the Great Commission only for Theology majors? We are ALL called to know God, and to make Him known to others. That's not a Jesus Juke; that's Scripture.