[Green Monkey]

So a guy I follow tweeted this article from some blog I've never heard of before:
http://babyloniansquirrel.blogspot.com/ ... wreck.html

Basically, the blog article is saying that Ergun Caner's entire biography is made up to lend authority to his teachings on Islam. I'm pretty skeptical of the article, but I wanted to know what you guys think.

[SuperJon]

This is nowhere near the first thing like this to be said about Dr. Caner. These things pop up all the time and I've seen numerous websites over the past few years (fakeexmuslims.com was one but it's been frozen) that have said this type of stuff. This just happened to be the first one that was tweeted to 10,000 people on Twitter.

[thepostman]

I've heard rumors like this since I was started at liberty back in 2003 and have no idea where these rumors came from. I am at work now so can't check out the link, but its far from the first time I have heard something like this....

[LUconn]

It's not whether his entire bio is made up, it's at most embellished. From reading that article, it's almost as if he inferred he was born in Turkey but he didn't actually say that. Which is sort of on the onus of the reader to interpret. So it's tough to say in my opinion.

If true, it should be dealt with but a resignation seems pretty overboard. An apology would certainly suffice. It's not like being Turkish born is the basis on which all of his work/life has been built on.

[Sly Fox]

Yeah, there has been discussion around many circles for about a year or so that I have noticed. The Swedish/Turkish point seems to be the major point of the detractors although the time of his conversion seems to be pushed as well. They tend to try and play Ergun & Emir's bios against each other.

The whole thing seems a bit inconsequential in my view. Are these details pertinent to his position? Not really. Do they question his authority on Islam? Perhaps a bit. But even the critics will not dismiss his knowledge on the subject matter ... just his credentials.

The bio change last fall (which is when I believe it switched) was obviously done in order to placate the detractors. And keep in mind, he has set himself up as a target by being so vocal in the Arminian/Calvinism debate. If embellishments did exist, then he should come clean. But obviously his detractors don't really care where he was born or when he converted ... they just want to discredit him personally from future debate in other arenas where he has proven to be a very strong debater.

[phoenix]

HERE is something that, if true, we should all have a problem with: http://fbcjaxwatchdog.blogspot.com/2010 ... t-fbc.html

I don't usually agree with the blogger at FBCJaxWatchdog, but if this is true (and I haven't heard much to indicate it isn't), then there is a potential credibility problem that needs to be addressed. If it's not true, then a statement still needs to be made that addresses the FBC Jacksonville sermon specifically.

[LUconn]

His entire article is founded upon the fact that we assumed all of this was done in Europe. And maybe Caner did that on purpose. Maybe he just made the assumption himself. How can we say?

[JK37]

You beat me to the point, LuConn. Every time the blogger makes a point, it concerns Europe - as if to say that if that's wrong, nothing else said is correct. That is a classic argumentative falacy, a twist of presentation similar to the very one of which he is accusing Caner.

[Liberty4Life]

I would say this is a big deal, but frankly, Ergun Caner's not the only President who's lied about his Muslim background...

[iFlame]

Actually, if you check the legal documents and build a time line the biographies and claims made do not match. (Cf. http://blog.witnessesuntome.com/2010/03 ... raphy.html)

Other legal documents seem to indicate that he moved to the USA when he was about 2 or 3. (Cf. http://blog.witnessesuntome.com/2010/04 ... n-you.html)

If you read through the documentation it does not seem there was any time for him to have been raised in Turkey as he has claimed. It seems as if his mother had custody and fought the father (who remarried) about what faith he would be raised under. The father only had visitation and limited time with the boys according to court documents.

There are just too many claims that don't add up even from things as simple as learning about America by watching Dukes of Hazzard on Turkish TV prior to 1979 when the show actually first aired.

[LUconn]

Actually, if you check the legal documents and build a time line the biographies and claims made do not match. (Cf. http://blog.witnessesuntome.com/2010/03 ... raphy.html)

Other legal documents seem to indicate that he moved to the USA when he was about 2 or 3. (Cf. http://blog.witnessesuntome.com/2010/04 ... n-you.html)

If you read through the documentation it does not seem there was any time for him to have been raised in Turkey as he has claimed. It seems as if his mother had custody and fought the father (who remarried) about what faith he would be raised under. The father only had visitation and limited time with the boys according to court documents.

There are just too many claims that don't add up even from things as simple as learning about America by watching Dukes of Hazzard on Turkish TV prior to 1979 when the show actually first aired.

I'm actually not really familiar with his published biography. Does he claim to have ever lived in Turkey? I read the link at the top of the page which contained the original bio on his website: "Raised as the son of a Muslim leader in Turkey, Caner became a Christian shortly before entering college." Now if I read that I would assume that He was raised as the son of a Muslim leader, which took place in Turkey. But it could also mean his father was a Muslim leader while he was in Turkey, and that is who he was raised by. My personal opinion is that it was worded this way to appear as if he actually lived in Turkey, but then again the only person that knows if it was embellishment or poorly worded is Caner.

Like I said earlier if he is exaggerating his Muslim past, that is technically lying and he needs to come clean and apologize. However, I'm not a fan of these "gotcha" blogs that have popped up in the Christian community.

[LUconn]

I've heard Christianity Today is currently doing an article with Caner and Towns , so hopefully that should clear the air one way or the other. Or at least address it. Although from the blogs I've read I'm sure nobody will be satisfied short of his resignation and excommunication.

[iFlame]

LuConn,

The issue with Turkey, where Caner lived and when he came to America is not about his bio. It's about the many times he spoken of these things publicly. Some have even said that prior to 9/11 and his jump to being an expert on Islam that he used E. Michael Caner or Ergun Michael Caner as a pastor, free lancer and on at least one paper to ETS.

For audio, you can listen to the Focus on the Family audio via direct link even though they've removed him from the front page from the program that aired this week. He claims to have come to America through Brooklyn where he also claimed he learned English.
http://fotf.cdnetworks.net/fotf/mp3/fof ... 100426.mp3

This post (http://fbcjaxwatchdog.blogspot.com/2010 ... worst.html) points out some issues from the FotF broadcast as it was the same sermon from Prestonwood.

As to the Dukes of Hazzard issue I mentioned this post has audio from Caner on the Rick and Bubba show where he made the claim.
http://turretinfan.blogspot.com/2010/04 ... daisy.html

The sermon he preached at FBC Jacksonville in November 2001 might be of interest to you also. Caner adds all kinds of accents to his words. It's just...unusual.

Concerning Christianity Today, several bloggers have also been interviewed about the material that is out.

[ALUmnus]

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/201 ... -11.0.html

Not sure what Elmer is saying here, I hope he's not digging himself a hole.

Elmer Towns, co-founder of Liberty University and dean of the School of Religion, says there will be no official reprimand or demotion of Ergun Caner. Towns, who had a hand in hiring Caner, says the Liberty board has held an inquiry and directors are satisfied that Caner has done nothing theologically inappropriate.

"It's not an ethical issue, it's not a moral issue," Towns told Christianity Today on April 27. "We give faculty a certain amount of theological leverage. The arguments of the bloggers would not stand up in court."

Although bloggers say they aren't interested in forcing Caner out of his job, Clyatt notes that some bloggers are working on resolutions for the Southern Baptist Convention's annual meeting in June that would call on churches to sever ties with Liberty if no action is taken against Caner.

Uh, yeah, right.

It seems like a lot of these attacks are self-serving and have the primary purpose of trying to discredit Caner. James White, for example, debates with Caner in regards to Calvinism, yet brings out this stuff, why?

[SumItUp]

How is this not an ethical issue?

[LUconn]

yeah, that article was not helpful at all.

[ALUmnus]

Towns gives four statements in that little quote, and all four of them are setting up the seminary, and the university as a whole, to be a giant punching bag.

[kel varson]

The CT article came up in my facebook newsfeed and I just read it. Pretty damaging if you ask me.

[phoenix]

There wouldn't be an issue if Caner either clarified what he was saying or apologized for misleading people. The fact remains that the bio was changed, and things left out that are things that people have problems with. The whole things smells like a cover up in way too many ways.

I like Caner -- I have since I first heard him speak at the SBC Pastors Conference a few years ago. I tend to disagree with him on Calvinism (I know too many five pointers who are nothing like the way he describes Calvinism), but I like to hear him speak. While I think that many of the bloggers going after him have an ulterior motive (I really do not like Debbie Kaufman at all, and Wade Burleson's involvement in some of the postings bothers me a lot), I think that simply saying that the bloggers' statements wouldn't stand up in a court of law is just avoiding the issue.

[SumItUp]

Where is Darell Gilyard these days?

[Sly Fox]

Complete different beast, SumItUp. But that was embarrassing even though he had no formal ties to the school. He could flat out bring it from the pulpit even though he had trouble living it once he stepped out the door. Last I heard he was back leading a non-denom in Dallas.

[Rocketfan]

"We give faculty a certain amount of theological leverage.

This is like reading quotes from Bush saying the word "strategery."...i can't do it with a straight face.

[SumItUp]

Complete different beast

Is it really? I view them both as issues with truthfulness. When is it permissible not to speak the truth?

If there is something that is different, it is that Ergun Caner is in a prominent position with the university.

[LUconn]

Well, I guess it's not over yet

http://www.liberty.edu/index.cfm?PID=18495&MID=18642

News & Events
Committee formed to investigate Caner statements
May 10, 2010 : University Advancement staff

Liberty University’s Provost Dr. Ron Godwin is forming a committee to investigate a series of accusations against Ergun Caner, president of Liberty Baptist Theological Seminary.

The allegations have questioned public statements Caner has made regarding the details of his personal life story.

Godwin is forming a committee to conduct an official inquiry with a goal of issuing its conclusions by the end of June.

Following inquiries from several members of the mainstream media, Liberty decided to initiate its own investigation.

“In light of the fact that several newspapers have raised questions, we felt it necessary to initiate a formal inquiry,” Chancellor Jerry Falwell, Jr. said.

I guess we'll stick a pin in it until June.

[PAmedic]

I got an idea: bring the man in and ask him "whats up?"

save the money on that committee.

where's MALLET for a dose of common sense when I need him?