[Brokeback Flamer]

HMO I have dropped more then names in my life!! Not sure what your point about "taking God out of schools" has to do with anything. I mean really, who knew the board of education had THAT much power? I have never stated which side of the argument I am on, only that the LAWSUIT is ridiculous and unwarranted and unwinable.. As for driving 3 hours to play a game, that is primarily LCA football, which is the catalyst for this law suit. Also, there are some public schools who do the same thing in ALL sports, as you already know. The bottom line IMO is that LCA is not happy where they are at in football and can't find anyway out.

[Hold My Own]

I never played football

[Brokeback Flamer]

Don't think I said you did, but my bad if i did. My point was that this is being driven b/c of LCA's football schedule more then anything else. I think boys basketball may be getting shut out some too, but for the most part it is all trickle down from fb.

[givemethemic]

This is not just a football thing I have had several disscussions with Coach Rocco about this and I can asure you that football is not the only reason...I have stayed out of this and will continue to stay out of it but football is not the main thing in this suit, it's part of it but not the driving force

[A.G.]

GMTM--if you have some good stuff to add, don't be selfish--SHARE it with the rest of us. I am actually somewhat opening to change my opinion in this case.

[Brokeback Flamer]

To be contrarian, what who me , this IS mostly about football. For starters of COURSE coach roc isn't going to say it IS about football, that would look even worse. BUT , the reason LCA is having difficulty scheduling for other sports is b/c of the football issue. Several schools won't play LCA in any sport b/c of the recruiting etc that LCA football has done, even before Rocco. After all, other private schools have not had as much problems scheduling games, but that is starting to change. Do you honestly think they would be suing if other schools were "boycotting" them in girls soccer? Boys Golf?

[ALUmnus]

This is about football, but it's not just about recruiting. They have trouble scheduling games to begin with because of the point system. Who wants to play a game that doesn't count and doesn't help you get into the playoffs? While a few of the coaches have taken it personally that some of their players have been recruited to LCA, and they don't like playing against 19 year olds, the fact is it does them absolutely no good playing schools like LCA. I think the school went the wrong way about this, and the Liberty Counsel shouldn't have even considered any type of lawsuit or threat of lawsuit. With as many connections as LCA has with other programs around the area, this could have been done in a much better and more civil manner.

[Libertine]

On the topic of the lawsuit, I agree that LCA went completely the wrong way. They shouldn't be suing the schools that are boycotting them. They should be suing the VHSL to change the public/private rule that bars them from membership. I could be wrong (and I probably am) but I believe that the rule in question was enacted in the 1950's, a period of time when several VA localities disbanded their public school systems entirely and sent all the white kids to private schools to get around federally enforced integration of the publics.

I'm not saying racism and the rule are necessarily connected, I'm just sayin'.
Or, at least, that's what the Liberty Counsel should be sayin'.

[Sly Fox]

Forgive my ignorance, but what is this point system? Don't all district/league champs get in playoffs? If so, who cares who you play non-district.

[SuperJon]

Different states are different. South Carolina uses a point system as well. It's supposed to work so that schools can't pad their nonconference schedule. You get x amount of points for playing the different classifications. The district winner gets in but after that, the other spots are filled with the point system.


It's pretty screwed up. Not quite as screwed up as North Carolina's playoff system for football, but screwed up nonetheless.

[Libertine]

What's worse than the college BCS? The high school BCS!!

[Chris Lang]

Forgive my ignorance, but what is this point system? Don't all district/league champs get in playoffs? If so, who cares who you play non-district.

If you win your district, yes, you're in the postseason. But if you don't, the points system is there to distinguish the at-large bids. In some cases, you have Division 1 and Division 2 schools in the same district. William Campbell (Div. 1) needed to have enough power points to get a state bid because it finished third in the Dogwood behind Gretna and Chatham, both Div. 2 schools.

Basically, you get extra points for playing up, but you get next to nothing for playing down. Playing private schools and out-of-state schools don't get you much in the way of credit for the VHSL playoff system. That hurts schools like the Danville and Martinsville schools, which play a game in North Carolina to cut down on travel costs.

The AAs hesitate to play As because you don't get much credit for it ... in fact, when I went to cover Gretna's opener at Greensville County last year, the Greensville A.D. said he didn't realize Gretna had dropped from AA to A, and had he known that, he would have never scheduled the game. E.C. Glass is a bit different, because there's no AAA non-district school within two hours of Lynchburg, Glass will play Amherst and Heritage just to cut down on travel costs. In fact, Glass plays Franklin County and Patrick Henry in "non-district" games early in the season, then again in true district games later on just so they don't have to go to Fredericksburg/Stafford or Richmond all the time.

You at least get some smidgen of credit if you play down against a fellow VHSL school. Playing a non-VHSL school is like playing a scrimmage. Nothing. The game doesn't exist. That's why none of the public schools want to play LCA. It's a worthless game.

[Sly Fox]

That's a pretty lousy system. Virginia operates with three classifications, correct?

Considering how few schools there in the Commonwealth, they should be able to get three schools from each district in the postseason with the champion getting a first round bye. That way you take all of the subjective garbage out of the equation. You schedule your non-district games for the joy of the sport and to prepare you for the playoffs. Oh well.

[SuperJon]

Wanna talk about bad playoff systems?

North Carolina has four classifications: 1A, 2A, 3A, 4A

In football, only for the playoffs, those four classifications split into 8: 1A, 1AA, 2A, 2AA, 3A, 3AA, 4A, 4AA.

There are then 8 state champions. There are 64 teams in each set of playoffs. That means 4-7 gets you into the playoffs in the state of North Carolina. If you're a 1A school (smallest), 1 win gets you a 3-5 hour busride to get the crap kicked out of you in the first round.


Gotta love those idiots in Chapel Hill and the NCHSAA.

[Chris Lang]

Virginia has three classifications (AAA, AA, A) and then subdivides it even further. E.C. Glass is a AAA, Div. 5 school, which means it's smaller than the big behemoths in NoVa, Richmond and the Beach. But it's bigger than say Heritage or Brookville (but not by a whole lot).

So in Glass' district, you have Glass, Halifax and Franklin County as Division 5 schools and Patrick Henry and GW-Danville as Division 6. You've got teams competing in the same district that don't compete for the same state title. It's really a dumb system. Same thing in the Seminole (about half Division 4, the other half Division 3). It was even worse two years ago when the Dogwood was half AA teams, half A teams.

Ugh. Thinking about this makes my head hurt.

[Brokeback Flamer]

Virginia has three classifications (AAA, AA, A) and then subdivides it even further. E.C. Glass is a AAA, Div. 5 school, which means it's smaller than the big behemoths in NoVa, Richmond and the Beach. But it's bigger than say Heritage or Brookville (but not by a whole lot).

So in Glass' district, you have Glass, Halifax and Franklin County as Division 5 schools and Patrick Henry and GW-Danville as Division 6. You've got teams competing in the same district that don't compete for the same state title. It's really a dumb system. Same thing in the Seminole (about half Division 4, the other half Division 3). It was even worse two years ago when the Dogwood was half AA teams, half A teams.

Ugh. Thinking about this makes my head hurt.

The simple solution the the Glass situation is reclassification to AA status. After all, JF and Heritage has larger enrollments. But that is another thread for another time

[Chris Lang]

No doubt, Brokeback. I think it's an ego thing with Glass. They've always been AAA and they want to stay AAA. Cave Spring, Pulaski and William Fleming all used to be AAA too, but they dropped down.

[SuperJon]

In NC you don't have a choice. Every 4 years there's a realignment. We just realigned this year and the next one will be 2009. My school was the 6th largest 2A in the state and I'm about 98% sure we'll be up to 3A in 2009. I actually think we're over the mark right now.

[bigsmooth]

there is realignment in virginia too, i believe every two years, though im not sure. fleming is moving back to AAA next year.

[A.G.]

Glass, for years, has petitioned to move DOWN to AA. Their enrollment is LARGER than any of the Seminole schools, but is boosted by their special needs students, none of who are athletic calibre, but there numbers are included. Otherwise, Glass would be around the Amherst-JF size.

[Brokeback Flamer]

No doubt, Brokeback. I think it's an ego thing with Glass. They've always been AAA and they want to stay AAA. Cave Spring, Pulaski and William Fleming all used to be AAA too, but they dropped down.

You speak truth oh wise scribe. It is all about the ego of being AAA!! The numbers dont justify it. BUT in a few years the word on the street is there will be 4 classes which would be a good thing for sports in our area. Except for LCA, b/c they will still be "boycotted"!

[A.G.]

Interesting read this AM. By the way, I love Staver's last line:

“These school districts responding puts pressure on the other school districts to respond,” Staver said. “It weakens the alliance.”

Alliance? What's next, quotes about an evil empire? Is he leading a rebellion of some sort. I just wish the publics would schedule LCA and tear them a new one--then they would see why they need to stay put.

http://www.newsadvance.com/servlet/Sate ... 4241&path=

Attorney: There is no boycott

By Ron Brown
rbrown@newsadvance.com
May 27, 2006

A lawyer for school districts in Appomattox, Campbell and Bedford counties on Friday rejected Liberty Christian Academy’s claim that the public schools were illegally refusing to schedule games against LCA athletic teams.

Liberty Counsel President Mat Staver made the charge of an illegal boycott in a May 16 letter written to eight public school districts.

In that letter, Staver threatened to sue if the boycott continued.

“Upon receiving your letter of May 16, 2006, our firm investigated your claim that these school systems had engaged in an illegal boycott,” wrote attorney Frank A. Wright Jr. in a letter faxed to Staver on Friday. “None of the school systems we represent have participated in any illegal boycott, nor have they violated any state or federal laws in scheduling athletic competition.”

Wright is a partner in the Rustburg firm of Overbey, Hawkins, Selz and Wright.

Staver’s letter also claimed school districts in Nelson, Prince Edward, Pittsylvania and Amherst counties and Lynchburg were participating in the boycott.

Pittsylvania County school officials previously denied boycotting LCA.

School districts in Amherst, Nelson and Prince Edward counties and Lynchburg have not responded to Staver’s letter.

“Appomattox, Bedford and Campbell Public Schools will continue to consider all options when scheduling athletic opportunities, including the option of scheduling competitions with Lynchburg Christian Academy,” Wright’s letter said. “Please understand that Lynchburg Christian Academy will not be given more or less priority in scheduling over other schools because you have threatened to sue.”

Last year, the name of LCA was formally changed to Liberty Christian Academy.

Wright provided a synopsis of how schools determine potential opponents for their athletic teams.

First, the school looks to teams within their district before looking at non-district opponents, he said.

Non-district opponents are selected based on mutually available dates and whether the competition would be fair. A game’s effect on strength of schedule is also taken into consideration.

“Because of these factors, a team may play completely different non-district teams each year,” Wright wrote.

“Our local schools, public and private, have enjoyed a positive relationship over the years. I regret that your client believed it necessary to retain an attorney and send a letter threatening legal action without first contacting our school system’s administrators informally to discuss their concerns.”

E.C. Glass athletic director Chip Berry said earlier this month that Glass has excluded LCA in its athletic scheduling, as have some Seminole District schools, due to conflicting rules of operation used by the public schools and private schools.

“I know the Seminole schools have said they don’t want to play them, (though) I don’t know that the whole district as a district has come together and said they won’t play LCA,” Berry said. “The key thing is the different set of rules that the schools play by.”

In early February, LCA applied to become a member of the Virginia High School League (VHSL), stating it was required by law to open its membership to non-public schools. That request was denied, but the school plans to continue to pursue that case in the future.

Staver said that LCA officials would begin contacting schools next week to see if games can be scheduled.

“These school districts responding puts pressure on the other school districts to respond,” Staver said. “It weakens the alliance.”

[Brokeback Flamer]

I had a different reaction to the article. The EC Glass AD states flat out they don't schedule them, but you didn't hear much from MR Attorney about that. Sounds to me an admission of "boycott". As for the "Alliance" (Cue John Williams Music) I would think that having some schools STAND UP to the law suit would enable other schools to do the same. Had they capitulated, then I would think the 'alliance' would be falling apart. What a marooon!! I did notice that the School district letter stated the phrase "illegal boycott" but nothing about "boycott". Seems there is agreement that there IS a boycott

[Sly Fox]

LCA replies to city superintendent on boycott

By Ted Allen
Lynchburg News & Advance
August 18, 2006

Liberty Counsel sent a new letter to Lynchburg City Schools Superintendent Paul McKendrick on Thursday expressing concern over city schools' continued resistance to participate in activities involving Liberty Christian Academy.

The letter was drafted by David Corry of Liberty Counsel, a Florida-based legal group with offices in Liberty University's law school. He said it was written in response to McKendrick's letter sent May 30 asserting he could find no evidence of Lynchburg schools participating in a boycott of LCA's athletic program.

Corry said this latest letter was intended "to give (McKendrick) an opportunity to clarify if the schools under his authority are going to continue to act the way they have for several years (scheduling in- and out-of-season activities with LCA) or whether he's going to endorse their more recent behavior," referring to a boycott alleged in a letter sent to eight of the area's school superintendents on May 16.

Thursday's letter charges that Seminole District chairman and Amherst County High School principal Ernest Guill headed a meeting of several Seminole District principals and athletic directors last spring and discussed a group decision to no longer schedule local private schools for in-season athletic competition or offseason practices and camps. At that meeting, a letter was circulated to each of the district's eight representatives to sign, agreeing to the proposal. At least one of the district school's representatives declined to sign.

LCA athletic director Frank Rocco says he's "very satisfied" after recent conversations with various area public schools' ADs.

"Through the summer, we tried to contact as many schools as possible," he said. "At least half of them are very open to scheduling private schools. Some schools locally have taken the position that they're not going to compete with private schools. If that was their individual decision, we respect that. Our concern was that it was a group decision."

A boycott would be in violation of Virginia High School League bylaws.

Corry said an attorney for Appomattox, Bedford and Campbell county public schools sent Liberty Counsel a letter stating those schools would consider scheduling LCA.

"They've made it clear at least from their leadership that they don't want to be part of something like (a boycott)," he said. "We are happy that it's no longer a united front."

Rocco said it is too late to schedule competition for the upcoming school year as most schools' schedules have been finalized.

"As we get in the school year, and get set up for next fall, it will be more apparent (if they are willing to schedule activities)," Rocco said.

He said none of the area schools that have participated in the Beacon Classic Invitational high school basketball tournament at LU in recent years, including E.C. Glass and Heritage, will play in December's event.

"We're in it," Rocco said of LCA. "I don't think any of the local public schools are choosing to be in it."

Glass AD Chip Berry confirmed LCA is not on the Hilltoppers' 2006-2007 schedule for any sport.

"Nothing's changed," he said, noting he hasn't received a call from LCA regarding scheduling issues. "I've never been contacted by any of them."

He declined to comment further on the issue.

"Depending on whether or not they're going to be filing a law suit, we've been told to refer any questions to the superintendent's office (so) there's not much I can say," Berry said.

Thursday's letter also charged:

Last spring, former Hilltoppers boys basketball coach Marty Chandler attended an organizational meeting for the area's open spring basketball league, one that LCA has played in previously but was excluded from this year. Liberty Counsel's letter states that at this meeting, Heritage boys basketball coach Dan Stephens explained reasons for not inviting LCA to participate in the league, citing Rocco's attempts to recruit players from the public schools.

Attempts to contact Stephens Thursday night were unsuccessful.

"That's the reason Glass isn't playing them, the allegations of recruitment at the middle schools," said Chandler, who still works at Glass but will assist LCA coach John Patterson next season. "In the past, I would have loved to have played our JV against their freshman team. It seems to me that we're cutting off our nose to spite our face."

In March, Patterson was informed by Altavista boys basketball coach Mike Cartolaro that LCA was not invited to take part in its annual team camp due to a threat that Seminole District schools would pull out if the Bulldogs were there.

It stated that football coaches from Gretna and William Campbell were told by Heritage coach Chris Jones that if they participated in LCA's offseason 7-on-7 open league or scheduled regular season or offseason activities with the Bulldogs, they would "never get a game in the Lynchburg area again," according to Gretna coach Chris Thurman.

"Deciding as a group not to schedule private schools is illegal (and) threatening other schools to join the boycott or face sanctions is also illegal," Corry said.

When contacted Thursday, Jones had no comment.

Gretna pulled out of the league, but William Campbell did not.

"We participated in 7-on-7s with LCA all the way up until the end of June," Generals coach Brad Bradley said. "We played in Heritage's league two or three times this summer and we also played in LCA's. Nothing deterred me or would deter me from playing another school for any reason. We just want to play football."

He added that his JV and B teams play LCA in regular-season competition and the reason William Campbell's varsity won't is because it wouldn't earn any points toward qualifying for the VHSL playoffs by beating a private school team.

Area public schools contend that LCA doesn't play by the same rules specified by the VHSL, such as those regarding recruiting. Public schools require student athletes to sit out and lose a year of eligibility after transferring to another public school. Private schools allow transfer students to play right away and offer a fifth year of eligibility to those who need it for academic reasons.

In the past, LCA has had donors give money to pay athletes' tuition, enabling them to play for the Bulldogs. With the school's move adjacent to the LU campus last winter, students have even greater incentive to transfer.

Jerry Falwell Jr., an attorney associated with LCA, said the school will continue to pursue membership in the VHSL, which would eliminate much of the scheduling conflict. He said the school would be willing to adhere to the league's bylaws, with recruitment an issue that would have to be addressed.

"Public and private schools are different animals," he said. "(But) for them (public schools) to say there's no way to even the playing field, it's just not correct.

"If you checked in the other 48 states where private schools are allowed to play public school leagues, they've dealt with it. There's a way to deal with it and 48 states have figured that out."

http://www.newsadvance.com/servlet/Sate ... 1942&path=

[LUconn]

Alright so is everybody trying to save face here or what. This all just seem silly.