[SuperJon]

1) A lot of people's best friends have no connection to LU.

2) There's still no references to the occult anywhere.

3) He had porn on his computer. Nowhere does it say he was addicted. He's 19. At least half the 19 year olds in college have some sort of porn on their computer.


You're just posting stupid crap now and everyone's laughing at you.

[Libertine]

I'll repeat the above poster, 'dox: where are you getting any references to the occult on this? Unless, you're equating Nazis w/ occultism, I haven't seen any reference to the occult in any article about this. You seem to be jumping rather Beamon-like to a completely baseless conclusion here.

[paradox]

Both historic nazis and neo-nazis have their origins in the occult and in esoteric symbolic ritual.

[SuperJon]

There are a lot of "historic" things that have their origins in things that are in no way related to what they are now.

[Libertine]

Both historic nazis and neo-nazis have their origins in the occult and in esoteric symbolic ritual.

Uh, did Sergeant Rock tell you that? Because, that statement is ... completely untrue to say the least. History is better off not learned from comic books.

[paradox]

Over the span of his life, Jerry Falwell recieved as many death threats from far-right hate fringe groups such as neo-nazis, the IRA, the KKK, ect., as he did from far-left hate groups.

So, my point would center on the common bond between the three suspects. I'm not buying into the Phelps theory. If it turns out that all three of these kids had an interest neo-nazism, then I would lean more toward that as the primary influence for their plan, and if that turns out to be the case, then yes, mourners could have been harmed.

[SuperJon]

How do you know the common bond wasn't a band, or a tv show, or a video game, etc?

You're making assumptions, and the saying about assuming is completely true in your case.

[Libertine]

Over the span of his life, Jerry Falwell recieved as many death threats from far-right hate fringe groups such as neo-nazis, the IRA, the KKK, ect., as he did from far-left hate groups.

So, my point would center on the common bond between the three suspects. I'm not buying into the Phelps theory. If it turns out that all three of these kids had an interest neo-nazism, then I would lean more toward that as the primary influence for their plan, and if that turns out to be the case, then yes, mourners could have been harmed.

The IRA? So, we've abandoned the occult influence in favor of an international conspiracy?

[Cider Jim]

On tonight's WSET news report, they said the judge denied bail for Uhl, so he's still behind bars.

[paradox]

Both historic nazis and neo-nazis have their origins in the occult and in esoteric symbolic ritual.

Uh, did Sergeant Rock tell you that? Because, that statement is ... completely untrue to say the least. History is better off not learned from comic books.

The pagan and occultic rituals are well publicized with regard to nazism. The BBC devoted a segmented 6 hour broadcast to this very subject.

The facts are well documented for those willing to do a little research and thinking on their own.

You really should know the subject a little better before you start making uninformed statements about comic books and such

[paradox]

How do you know the common bond wasn't a band, or a tv show, or a video game, etc?

You're making assumptions, and the saying about assuming is completely true in your case.

Yes, of course I'm making an assumption. It's only speculation at this point. The press speculates, this board speculates. Well, I'm throwing out another possibility. I think that the neo-nazi stuff is very disturbing to say the least and may be the bond that linked the three men together.

The media assumption that this had something to do with Phelps seems highly unlikely at this stage.

The bombers may very well have been oriented in an anti-Christian, occultic belief system.

[El Scorcho]

The press speculates, this board speculates.

Yeeeeeah, but we tend to stick to sports with our speculating on the board. Notsomuch the domestic terrorism stuff. When it comes to that, I prefer to stick to the facts.

[Libertine]

Both historic nazis and neo-nazis have their origins in the occult and in esoteric symbolic ritual.

Uh, did Sergeant Rock tell you that? Because, that statement is ... completely untrue to say the least. History is better off not learned from comic books.

The pagan and occultic rituals are well publicized with regard to nazism. The BBC devoted a segmented 6 hour broadcast to this very subject.

The facts are well documented for those willing to do a little research and thinking on their own.

You really should know the subject a little better before you start making uninformed statements about comic books and such

Oh, my God! Do you really want to come at me on matters historical?! I submit to you, sir, that you do not!

Excuse me a moment.

<regains compusure>

First of all, the BBC is one of the most sensationalistic news organizations on the planet. I know the documentary of which you speak and it is so full of holes so as to completely discredit it and the organization that produced it. It's pretty much a British 'Dateline NBC'.

Secondly, the occult influences of the German Nazi Party were exactly two people: Goebbels and, to a lesser degree, Hitler himself. That was pretty much the extent of it. Diaries and journals of German officers and party leaders at the time -- you know, actual historical sources -- indicated that they considered Goebbels' interest in the occult to be largely a joke. The Nazis did incorporate some quasi-paganistic rituals into their rallies and ceremonies but that had more to with them being a part of Germany's national history than any dedication to actual occult practices.

Finally, the original Nazi party was a socialist party born out of the economic hardships imposed on Germany by the Treaty of Versailles, not the occult. Today's neo-Nazi's are born out of much the same thing, although on a much more individual basis. I doubt that you are ever going to see skinheads marching down the street chanting "Ragnorok Power!"

So, please, keep your history lessons to yourself, 'dox. I sincerely hope that you are the "troublemaking" alter ego of one of our more circumspect and logical posters. I really do. Otherwise, ... oh my.

[paradox]

No offense, but that is exactly what we are discussing: the facts.

The latest fact is that this kid's PC was loaded with 25K pornographic images and neo-nazi paraphernalia. Did his accomplices share the same neo-nazi sentiments? If so, then this thing may begin to unravel in a particular direction that would depict these three individuals as Jerry-haters.

It's just one possibility. We'll have to wait and see what unfolds, but either way it will be heavily speculated because this kid will eventually be let go and I seriously doubt that he is going to admit to attempting to commit a hate crime. Like it or not, we're all gonna have to choose an interpretation based on the known facts. Unless, of course, we take everything that this kid is saying as truth. That possibility ended for me when I discovered that he was attracted to the neo-nazis.

[paradox]

Libertine:

Please.. you're taking yourself way to seriosuly, now.

I didn't intend to step on your very delicate ego.

Secondly, the BBC broadcast is non-sensational, balanced, sourced, and accurate. Everything coming from the BBC is neccesarily "evil." Malcolm Muggeridge was allowed to do Christian documentaries on that network during the same time period.

Lastly, I personally know of numerous reliable sources on the subject from several known publishers such as: Ballintine, Doubleday, Putman, Harper, Princeton, Houghton Mifflin, Chicago, Lippencott, Meridian, Basic, and Hoover-Stanford.



...argument sustained.

[paradox]

Libertine:

Please.. you're taking yourself way to seriosuly, now.

I didn't intend to step on your very delicate ego.

Secondly, the BBC broadcast is non-sensational, balanced, sourced, and accurate. Everything coming from the BBC is neccesarily "evil." Malcolm Muggeridge was allowed to do Christian documentaries on that network during the same time period.

Lastly, I personally know of numerous reliable sources on the subject from several known publishers such as: Ballintine, Doubleday, Putman, Harper, Princeton, Houghton Mifflin, Chicago, Lippencott, Meridian, Basic, and Hoover-Stanford.

Two things: I meant to say "not" neccessarily evil.

Secondly, the BBC braodcast that I refer to is an old black and white scholarly production with not even the slightest resemplance to Dateline or any American broadcast for that matter.



...argument sustained.

[paradox]

How do you know the common bond wasn't a band, or a tv show, or a video game, etc?

You're making assumptions, and the saying about assuming is completely true in your case.

Well, people don't tend to bond together over TV shows and other forms of entertainment and then plot to ignite bombs a public event. However, groups such as the neo-nazis, skinheads, and christian-identity have a history of such violence and interstingly enough the very groups that I just mentioned had a very strong hatred for Jerry Falwell.

[paradox]

On tonight's WSET news report, they said the judge denied bail for Uhl, so he's still behind bars.

Eventually, they will have to let him go, unless they can link him to a hate group such as the neo-nazis or discover evidence that they were plotting to harm someone.

It will be interesting to learn what mutual interests the three suspects shared.

[SuperJon]

Well, people don't tend to bond together over TV shows and other forms of entertainment and then plot to ignite bombs a public event.

To everyone who has ever spent at least a semester in college: How many times did you meet people because of "Common Interest A" then while sitting around bored one day, you thought it would be fun to do "Something Else That Isn't Related?"

I rest my case.

[paradox]

Well, people don't tend to bond together over TV shows and other forms of entertainment and then plot to ignite bombs a public event.

To everyone who has ever spent at least a semester in college: How many times did you meet people because of "Common Interest A" then while sitting around bored one day, you thought it would be fun to do "Something Else That Isn't Related?"

I rest my case.

What?

Let's do something else? Something such as set off bombs at a public funeral just for fun? That's unheard of and completely unrealistic.

Acts of violence such as bombings are usually perpetrated by deeper idealogical issues.

[SuperJon]

The word "bombs" is pretty harsh for what these things were. I've seen kids build potato guns because they were bored. They've built bon fires that were much more dangerous than what this kid has. I'm not saying what he did wasn't wrong, but you're making him out to be some nazi terrorist.

[Libertine]

Libertine:

Please.. you're taking yourself way to seriosuly, now.

You're connecting one idiot kid with everything from the IRA to the Spear of Destiny -- but not Fred Phelps, of course, b/c you don't believe that "theory". Yet, I'm the one being too serious.

Secondly, the BBC broadcast is non-sensational, balanced, sourced, and accurate. Everything coming from the BBC is not neccesarily "evil." Malcolm Muggeridge was allowed to do Christian documentaries on that network during the same time period.
Secondly, the BBC braodcast that I refer to is an old black and white scholarly production with not even the slightest resemplance to Dateline or any American broadcast for that matter.

Oh, it was in black & white. Well, that settles it then. It must be the epitome of accuracy.
It may not be necessarily evil but it is necessarily suspect, particularly something that came out less within a generation of the Nazis bombing London back to the Stone Age.

Lastly, I personally know of numerous reliable sources on the subject from several known publishers such as: Ballintine, Doubleday, Putman, Harper, Princeton, Houghton Mifflin, Chicago, Lippencott, Meridian, Basic, and Hoover-Stanford.

Many of those same "known" publishers put out Y2K books, too. They also put out books on Atlantis, the Bermuda Triangle, Sasquatch, La Chupacabra, Amityville and the Hardy Boys. That's how they make money. Doesn't mean jack crap.

...argument sustained.

Not even close.

[paradox]

I'm not saying that it "is." I'm just speculating that it's possible.

At the moment, we don't know how deeply emersed this kid was in terms of neo-nazism or any of the related cult groups. His possible relationship to a far-right fringe group will carry a great deal of weight with regard to perspective.

[paradox]

The word "bombs" is pretty harsh for what these things were. I've seen kids build potato guns because they were bored. They've built bon fires that were much more dangerous than what this kid has. I'm not saying what he did wasn't wrong, but you're making him out to be some nazi terrorist.

This was actually meant for SJ:


I'm not saying that it "is." I'm just speculating that it's possible.

At the moment, we don't know how deeply emersed this kid was in terms of neo-nazism or any of the related cult groups. His possible relationship to a far-right fringe group will carry a great deal of weight with regard to perspective.

[SuperJon]

Had you said that rather than making extreme assumptions about a kid you know nothing about, this whole thing wouldn't have escalated to what it is now.