[blwall1416]

and if it takes "jump spin kicks" to restore government to the way it's supposed to be, so be it.

We approve of this message.

Signed,

Billy & Jimmy Lee

[blwall1416]

James Gregory chimes in....

http://www.thebigshow.com/audio/gregory_audio.swf

[RagingTireFire]

and if it takes "jump spin kicks" to restore government to the way it's supposed to be, so be it.

So good luck with that.

[matshark]

and if it takes "jump spin kicks" to restore government to the way it's supposed to be, so be it.

So good luck with that.

Yeah thats what our Founding Fathers said too.

"You have a republic madame, if you can keep it." - Ben Franklin

[RagingTireFire]

and if it takes "jump spin kicks" to restore government to the way it's supposed to be, so be it.

So good luck with that.

Yeah thats what our Founding Fathers said too.

"You have a republic madame, if you can keep it." - Ben Franklin

Did Ben Franklin then kick madame in the head?

[Hold My Own]

So good luck with that.

Yeah thats what our Founding Fathers said too.

"You have a republic madame, if you can keep it." - Ben Franklin

Did Ben Franklin then kick madame in the head?

No, he had Syphilis...that's like a roundhouse kick to the nuts

[matshark]

So good luck with that.

Yeah thats what our Founding Fathers said too.

"You have a republic madame, if you can keep it." - Ben Franklin

Did Ben Franklin then kick madame in the head?

no, but he did arrange to have quite a few british killed ; )
(and probably would've arranged the same for any madame that was standing in the way of liberty and justice for all)

[Rockthejungle]

And on taxes, he was more of the 'whatever, give to Caesar, Caesar's... now I'm going to do something really important over there.'

Yeah, it was so unimportant it's one of the few precious details that God decided to include in the Scriptures.

You know my point. Jesus said pay your taxes... and deal with it. I used the above post to cite how Capitalism isn't exactly a Biblical virtue...

Are we supposed to pay taxes if that money is being used for abortion?I don't Christ would approve of that.

[matshark]

Yeah, it was so unimportant it's one of the few precious details that God decided to include in the Scriptures.

You know my point. Jesus said pay your taxes... and deal with it. I used the above post to cite how Capitalism isn't exactly a Biblical virtue...

Are we supposed to pay taxes if that money is being used for abortion?I don't Christ would approve of that.

“To compel a man to furnish funds for the propagation of ideas he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.” – Thomas Jefferson

[flames1971]

You know my point. Jesus said pay your taxes... and deal with it. I used the above post to cite how Capitalism isn't exactly a Biblical virtue...

Are we supposed to pay taxes if that money is being used for abortion?I don't Christ would approve of that.

“To compel a man to furnish funds for the propagation of ideas he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.” – Thomas Jefferson

[matshark]

Are we supposed to pay taxes if that money is being used for abortion?I don't Christ would approve of that.

“To compel a man to furnish funds for the propagation of ideas he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.” – Thomas Jefferson

TY 71...i know my history.

[4everfsu]

Matshark is seems you do know your history. Where did you learn it? We know the public school no longer teaches America History

[flames1971]

“To compel a man to furnish funds for the propagation of ideas he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.” – Thomas Jefferson

TY 71...i know my history.

I sure don't (I'm the math person)

[Ed Dantes]

Yeah, it was so unimportant it's one of the few precious details that God decided to include in the Scriptures.

You know my point. Jesus said pay your taxes... and deal with it. I used the above post to cite how Capitalism isn't exactly a Biblical virtue...

Are we supposed to pay taxes if that money is being used for abortion?I don't Christ would approve of that.

Taxes in the first century paid for the Roman Empire, which was doing some pretty bad things. Caligula may or may not have boned his horse. I'd go so far as to say that our society isn't as decadent as the Roman Empire.

[Ed Dantes]

“To compel a man to furnish funds for the propagation of ideas he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.” – Thomas Jefferson

TY 71...i know my history.

Wait, are you seriously trying to rebut Christ's teachings based upon something Jefferson said?

[ToTheLeft]

I thought the same thing, Ed.

I am sure the Roman government was funding things that Jesus wouldn't have "approved" of, but he still said "pay your taxes".

Jesus didn't send them tea-bags. He ate dinner with them.

Jesus didn't call them dykes, He loved and healed them.

Just saying, some of you guys seem more like Hannity-ians rather than Christ-ians at times. There is a time and place for trying to change the culture, but it doesn't start by being a radical and disobeying authority. Remember the only thing Jesus got visibly mad about in his recorded life? Sin in the church. I think if we did the same today and built a stronger, better body of Christ in America, the rest of America would make a similar change. It doesn't start by being a radical governmental influence. That's not what Christ did. If we follow his example, we are to change the world with relationships, servanthood, and love. Not teabags and youtube videos.

[El Scorcho]

I thought the same thing, Ed.

I am sure the Roman government was funding things that Jesus wouldn't have "approved" of, but he still said "pay your taxes".

Jesus didn't send them tea-bags. He ate dinner with them.

Jesus didn't call them dykes, He loved and healed them.

Just saying, some of you guys seem more like Hannity-ians rather than Christ-ians at times. There is a time and place for trying to change the culture, but it doesn't start by being a radical and disobeying authority. Remember the only thing Jesus got visibly mad about in his recorded life? Sin in the church. I think if we did the same today and built a stronger, better body of Christ in America, the rest of America would make a similar change. It doesn't start by being a radical governmental influence. That's not what Christ did. If we follow his example, we are to change the world with relationships, servanthood, and love. Not teabags and youtube videos.

I think you're confusing people attempting to follow Christ with people being involved politically. Are you saying you can't do both?

Also: Jesus did not say "pay your taxes". Jesus said "Give to Caesar what is Caesar's, and to God what is God's." Rome was a very different place than the United States and everything was Caesar's in a sense. Our nation is set up such that we are supposed to govern ourselves. Therefore I don't think it's unChristian to ask "What is Caesar's?" in the context of being an American citizen.

But really, I just don't understand what changing the world in a Christ-like manner has to do with this political issue, unless you're saying the protest of taxes is being done in the name of Christ.

[Ed Dantes]

You can be Christian and involved in politics. Check out the life of William Wilburforce.

Re: Taxes -- I'm pretty sure the 'render unto Caesar' line was directed at taxes. The Pharisees asked him his opinion on paying taxes, Jesus looked at the coin and said his 'render unto Caesar...' line. It'd be like saying 'whose face is on that dollar bill? Washington? Well, give to Washington what is Washington's."

I guess the question is, 'ask yourself, what is Washington's?' I'd say that if we operate on a currency, as opposed to a bartering system, then yeah, the currency is washington's. We're using federal reserve notes.

A legitimate point to be made is, 'Washington is abusing the money that it is receiving. Politicians are using tax dollars to buy off people and companies (and such, votes and support) in the form of pork barrel projects. That's corruption.' To which I say, true. I am not disputing that. Jesus hated that too, likening the tax collectors to prostitutes. But it was through Christ's love (e.g., as TTL pointed out, taking Zaccheus to dinner with him; Zaccheus repented from his corrupt ways) that something got done.

[ToTheLeft]

I thought the same thing, Ed.

I am sure the Roman government was funding things that Jesus wouldn't have "approved" of, but he still said "pay your taxes".

Jesus didn't send them tea-bags. He ate dinner with them.

Jesus didn't call them dykes, He loved and healed them.

Just saying, some of you guys seem more like Hannity-ians rather than Christ-ians at times. There is a time and place for trying to change the culture, but it doesn't start by being a radical and disobeying authority. Remember the only thing Jesus got visibly mad about in his recorded life? Sin in the church. I think if we did the same today and built a stronger, better body of Christ in America, the rest of America would make a similar change. It doesn't start by being a radical governmental influence. That's not what Christ did. If we follow his example, we are to change the world with relationships, servanthood, and love. Not teabags and youtube videos.

I think you're confusing people attempting to follow Christ with people being involved politically. Are you saying you can't do both?

Also: Jesus did not say "pay your taxes". Jesus said "Give to Caesar what is Caesar's, and to God what is God's." Rome was a very different place than the United States and everything was Caesar's in a sense. Our nation is set up such that we are supposed to govern ourselves. Therefore I don't think it's unChristian to ask "What is Caesar's?" in the context of being an American citizen.

But really, I just don't understand what changing the world in a Christ-like manner has to do with this political issue, unless you're saying the protest of taxes is being done in the name of Christ.

I just think people are pushing a political agenda under the guise of being a good Christian. Gun laws, lower taxes, and smaller government aren't Biblical principles that we need to speak up and change because God commanded us to, so there is no reason to pretend that you're doing the Lord's work on Capitol Hill because you're a Christian and being an active Republican.

Abortion, yeah, that's something to speak out against under the banner of the Truth of God, along with many other issues.

[Ed Dantes]

The Religious Right, namely, Falwell & Pat Robertson, did a good thing by mobilizing an entire people groups to vote for issues that are near-and-dear to their hearts. Unquestionably, the country has titled left since the sixties (or so), and basically thumbed its nose as God. Falwell & Robertson brought awareness to issues and helped register voters. Reagan won the election b/c of the help of the Moral Majority.

I think the problem started to arise when the Republican Party saw the Religious Right as a constituency, much like the teacher's unions or trial lawyers are in the pants of the Democrats.

Somewhere down the line, the lines between the Religious Right and the Republican party blended. Go to the Christian Coalition website and one of the biggest issues its taking on is making sure the Death Tax doesn't get re-instated.

Also somewhere down the line, people got tuned out to the Religious Right, because of what I just said. There are other virtues Christ preached, such as caring for the poor -- and it seems as if the 'social justice' left-wingers have struck a chord with them. That's why you saw many evangelicals voting for Obama -- even pro-life ones. They figured he would help care for the down-trodden, and thus, the down-trodden wouldn't seek abortions.

(I, of course, saw through this ruse).

All of that to say... a 'let's get angry at the government' session didn't really A) raise awareness of an issue or B) change anything. At best, it was ineffective, at worst, it gave the media a chance to marginalize this group.

[flames1971]

The Religious Right, namely, Falwell & Pat Robertson, did a good thing by mobilizing an entire people groups to vote for issues that are near-and-dear to their hearts. Unquestionably, the country has titled left since the sixties (or so), and basically thumbed its nose as God. Falwell & Robertson brought awareness to issues and helped register voters. Reagan won the election b/c of the help of the Moral Majority.

I think the problem started to arise when the Republican Party saw the Religious Right as a constituency, much like the teacher's unions or trial lawyers are in the pants of the Democrats.

Somewhere down the line, the lines between the Religious Right and the Republican party blended. Go to the Christian Coalition website and one of the biggest issues its taking on is making sure the Death Tax doesn't get re-instated.

Also somewhere down the line, people got tuned out to the Religious Right, because of what I just said. There are other virtues Christ preached, such as caring for the poor -- and it seems as if the 'social justice' left-wingers have struck a chord with them. That's why you saw many evangelicals voting for Obama -- even pro-life ones. They figured he would help care for the down-trodden, and thus, the down-trodden wouldn't seek abortions.

(I, of course, saw through this ruse).

All of that to say... a 'let's get angry at the government' session didn't really A) raise awareness of an issue or B) change anything. At best, it was ineffective, at worst, it gave the media a chance to marginalize this group.

[NG33]

The Religious Right, namely, Falwell & Pat Robertson, did a good thing by mobilizing an entire people groups to vote for issues that are near-and-dear to their hearts. Unquestionably, the country has titled left since the sixties (or so), and basically thumbed its nose as God. Falwell & Robertson brought awareness to issues and helped register voters. Reagan won the election b/c of the help of the Moral Majority.

I think the problem started to arise when the Republican Party saw the Religious Right as a constituency, much like the teacher's unions or trial lawyers are in the pants of the Democrats.

Somewhere down the line, the lines between the Religious Right and the Republican party blended. Go to the Christian Coalition website and one of the biggest issues its taking on is making sure the Death Tax doesn't get re-instated.

Also somewhere down the line, people got tuned out to the Religious Right, because of what I just said. There are other virtues Christ preached, such as caring for the poor -- and it seems as if the 'social justice' left-wingers have struck a chord with them. That's why you saw many evangelicals voting for Obama -- even pro-life ones. They figured he would help care for the down-trodden, and thus, the down-trodden wouldn't seek abortions.

(I, of course, saw through this ruse).

All of that to say... a 'let's get angry at the government' session didn't really A) raise awareness of an issue or B) change anything. At best, it was ineffective, at worst, it gave the media a chance to marginalize this group.

Very well put. I totally agree.

[matshark]

I thought the same thing, Ed.

I am sure the Roman government was funding things that Jesus wouldn't have "approved" of, but he still said "pay your taxes".

the point is not to stop taxes, the point is to change what taxes are being spent on.

Jesus didn't send them tea-bags. He ate dinner with them.

Jesus didn't call them dykes, He loved and healed them.

im not jesus. lets not forget the whole sodem and gomorrah incident though...

Just saying, some of you guys seem more like Hannity-ians rather than Christ-ians at times. There is a time and place for trying to change the culture, but it doesn't start by being a radical and disobeying authority.

who said anything about disobeying authority? we're trying to CHANGE the authority. and the left is FAR more fitting of the term "RADICAL" than the right is... communism, socialism, enviro-terrorists... all of Obama's buddies are the radicals...

(however when it comes to disobeying authority, the Word says we ought to obey God rather than man...)

as far as second amendment etc..., if you knew your Constitutional history, you would know that the right to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness implies the right to defend them (see the whole book of Esther!!!!)

[matshark]

and ed... the media will marginalize ANYONE that isnt in lock step with their agenda...

dont forget that anyone who didnt vote for obama did so in SPITE of the media...

bottom line = media is irrelevant...

government of the people, by the people, for the people...

not of the media, by the media, for the media...

[flamesfilmguy]

and ed... the media will marginalize ANYONE that isnt in lock step with their agenda...

dont forget that anyone who didnt vote for obama did so in SPITE of the media...

bottom line = media is irrelevant...

government of the people, by the people, for the people...

not of the media, by the media, for the media...

I think you under estimate the stupidity of some(or most) americans. I would be willing to bet that a lot of people voted O because of what the media said about him and not doing research of their own. The sad fact is that there are a lot of people really DO believe what they hear on the TV.