[LUconn]

They don't recruit I guess, but do they really want to rule out recruiting all together? I wouldn't unless I absolutely had to. Them being willing to play VES is kinda funny.

[ATrain]

"We look to play schools that have to follow the same rules as us, and we'll consider any one who does that, whether it's public or private. Personally, for Liberty High School, we haven't played LCA in anything. In terms of all that, we haven't really played them in the past anyway."

Not true...annually we've been invited to their tennis tournament, as well as the two tennis teams playing each other during the season.

[belcherboy]

Yes, LCA recruits athletes. So does every other private school in the country.

That isn't true in Michigan. I coach a varsity team at a private school and play in the Michigan High School Athletic Association (basically the entire state plays in this...public and private...with 4 different classes designated by school size). If you are caught recruiting, you can be thrown out or suspended from the state tournament. Due to "school of choice" in Michigan (school of choice means you can attend any public high school in your county), it is easier for the public schools to recruit, than the private schools. Either way, if you are caught recruiting (which has happened in the past few years), you can be thrown out or suspended. The nice part is that the MHSAA pretty much accepts anyone in the state tournament when they apply (I think there is a 2 year waiting period once you apply).

I don't know how things are run in VA, but aside from the fact that my high school of 70 kids has to compete with a high school of 250 kids, I like the way they run the state tourney here. I just wish they would create one more division and make it around 100 kids and below.

[Libertine]

Yes, LCA recruits athletes. So does every other private school in the country.

That isn't true in Michigan. If you are caught recruiting, you can be thrown out or suspended from the state tournament.

Read my last post, Belch. I don't know of any schools anywhere that are allowed to officially recruit, but it happens pretty much everywhere in the manner that I described above. I'd bet solid money that, even though your school doesn't recruit, they reap the benefits of having someone who does.

[Guest]

Yes, LCA recruits athletes. So does every other private school in the country.

That isn't true in Michigan. If you are caught recruiting, you can be thrown out or suspended from the state tournament.

Read my last post, Belch. I don't know of any schools anywhere that are allowed to officially recruit, but it happens pretty much everywhere in the manner that I described above. I'd bet solid money that, even though your school doesn't recruit, they reap the benefits of having someone who does.

I haven't read through the whole thread, but I thought the writer was saying all private schools had the advantage due to the fact they could recruit while public could not.

Most recruiting in Michigan happens at the AAU level, but most schools IMO don't care enough to break rules to get kids to come to their school. The top high schools don't have to recruit as everyone is naturally drawn to them, the other schools are worried about whether or not they will have a school due to the cutbacks the state has seen in the past 5 years. The Class D (under 250 students) state champs from 2003, 2004, and 2005 had their school close this year. I live near Detroit and because of "school of choice" the illegal things like recruiting, getting false addresses, giving kids special priviledges, etc. has pretty much been eliminated. Many catholic schools are closing, and other private schools are barely making it.

My school isn't a good example as there are less than 70 kids in the high school. I ended the year with 7 varsity players and 6 J.V. players. I try and get kids into my school all the time, but unfortunately I can't give money away. If I had 3 more average athletes of average size this year, I would have made a legit tournament run (I had a great top 6 players), probably getting to the final 16 or even 8 teams or better in Class D of the state tournament. If I could get 3 more average athletes next year, I could probably win 20 games. I went 18-5 this year with 8 players.

I don't know if it is the case elsewhere, but Michigan athletics is getting weaker. I played in the 90's and I can't believe how unskilled many of the players are. Very few coaches teach fundamentals and I don't blame the coaches. Many of the best kids in the area won't play for a structured, hard coach. I run leagues all summer and you cannot correct or criticize the majority of the best players. Then in the tournament the teams that do play the game the right way beat the much more talented teams pretty reguarly. If you got a good system, others will accuse you of recruiting. You think this is part of the problem with LCA?

[Brokeback Flamer]

.

"I wasn't aware that a boycott was going on," he said. "We're not part of that. We still have games scheduled for next year with LCA, so I don't know where they got their information from."


None of the area schools are confirming the alleged boycott, which would be valuable ammunition for LCA's lawsuit.


Can't say that I am too impressed by this LIberty Counsel. Here is an idea if you are going to name someone in a law suit claiming they are boycotting your athletic teams, take a look at the schedule and make sure they are not actually PLAYING YOU!!! Good greif, what a maroon!

I know that there is a paper trail for one school, but once again what type of "ammunition" is this? Let's take this to a logical conclusion. If LCA/LU/LC wins this farce of a lawsuit, does that mean that ALL public schools in the area will have to have their athletic schedules looked at by meidators or the legislative body in Richmond? Then where does it stop. LCA wants a home game on a certain date but no school wants/can play on that date. Do they go run back to Richmond and cry to their lawyers saying BOYCOTT BOYCOTT.

I can't stress again how patently absurd this lawsuit is. It makes me harken back to the days when Jerry would complain about Liberal judges jamming the courts up by hearing frivilous law suits. In the words of the great musician "Things that make you go hmmmm"
Hands up if you just think they are doing this to give the Law School Students something to do over the summer?

[LUconn]

actually Liberty Counsil wins something like 80% of their cases. Obviously that doesn't change your opinion on this matter but they do know what they're doing.

[bigsmooth]

i agree brokeback....too many here are making excuses for LCA and drinking the bulldog kool-aid! i could care less if the liberty counsel wins 80% of their cases. it is a frivolous lawsuit. they keep this up what public school will want to play them? so what is next, they ask a roanoke area school to play them, they say no......let me guess, another lawsuit?

[A.G.]

The teams are so WEAK (outside of football) that they are only competetive with the single A schools around--and not much, then. The AA schools have nothing to gain by playing them. Like someone said earlier, the VHSL points system in football makes it suicide for a member school to play LCA.

[Brokeback Flamer]

actually Liberty Counsil wins something like 80% of their cases. Obviously that doesn't change your opinion on this matter but they do know what they're doing.

If by defining "win" you mean they get out of court settlements. Most law suits never see the inside of a court room. Now if they had an 80% TRIAL win rate, that might be something to be impressed by. Unless of course, you are counting A win in lower court a win in superior court a win in State Supreme Court and a loss at the Supreme court as 3 - 1 record. (OK who here has a law back ground LOL)

[Brokeback Flamer]

AND another thing. Where does this stop? Are we next going to sue the Citadel b/c they won't play us b/c, in the words of their leaders they won't play us as long as JF is involved? (Same reason why we are hard pressed to get into SoCon) That is a "boycott" isn't it?
As for my not being impressed by them, let's look at the argument. We sue Pittsylvania County schools, along with others, in a high profile case in the area, for not scheduling LCA to play them in athletics. The Pitts. Co. super gets it and looks into the matter. In a matter of mere seconds he/she finds that his/her schools are IN FACT playing LCA. No wonder these schools pulled out of the camp. I would be ticked off to if that happened. This is a complete FUBAR!

[BJWilliams]

i agree brokeback....too many here are making excuses for LCA and drinking the bulldog kool-aid! i could care less if the liberty counsel wins 80% of their cases. it is a frivolous lawsuit. they keep this up what public school will want to play them? so what is next, they ask a roanoke area school to play them, they say no......let me guess, another lawsuit?

I don't drink anybody's kool-aid...

Now Im not from around there originally so I don't know all the history. Where I come from public and private schools don't play each other either and the private schools don't seem to mind it all that much (of course the schools around here are of a quality that they don't have to go looking for public schools for competition)

As bad a pun as this may be, I think LCA is barking up the wrong tree.

[Hold My Own]

God I wish some of yall would play in the freakin VIC then you all would be giving this thing a standing ovation

[LUconn]

Obviously that doesn't change your opinion on this matter but they do know what they're doing.

i could care less if the liberty counsel wins 80% of their cases. it is a frivolous lawsuit.

Come on. I didn't use that as a way of justifying. I was just pointing out that they get their way more often than not.

[BJWilliams]

God I wish some of yall would play in the freakin VIC then you all would be giving this thing a standing ovation

Well hey, they're fighting for what they believe in and that is laudable. Im just saying I don't know the whole story round here, abd just saying how it is where I come from. I think that LCA probably could have gone about it a much nicer way before threatening legal action

[Brokeback Flamer]

God I wish some of yall would play in the freakin VIC then you all would be giving this thing a standing ovation

They teach relativistic thought now at LU? Wow, need to take that class. So you are saying that b/c it is good for the VIC it should be imposed on the VHSL. Why? Aren't you advocating what you are claiming now? The VHSL (Seminole Dogwood, Pittsyl....oops not them in particularly) are imposing what THEY feel is best for THEM on LCA and you chaffe, but you want to do the same thing and call it just.
Besides, has anyone asked the FOUNDER of the VIC what his thoughts are? I have.

[jimflamesfan]

In my opinion, there is something wrong about public schools not playing private schools in sports. I think it was great that I went to a public school in PA, and was able to play ice hockey against private schools.

If a private school wants to voluntarily play by the same rules as a public school, and they want to join a conference, and they meet the enrollement requirements, what basis would the public schools have for not allowing them to join...the parents that send their children to private schools still pay taxes, and part of those taxes go to support facilities for public schools sports programs.

But the public schools want it both ways...they want the tax money (will argue against vouchers), but they don't want them to be able to use the same facilities.

Separate but equal is still wrong. Let 'em play. Brokeback is drinking to much public school kool-aid...Its sad that the public high schools forced LCA to have to sue.

[Brokeback Flamer]

Easy now Jim. You threw a nice paragraph in there with a whole lot of "IF's". LCA does NOT meet requirements to join the VHSL, that is not what this law suit is about. This is about a group of schools saying "No thank you we don't want to put you on our schedule". You may not like it, and that is fine, but there is nothing illegal about it. If someone can point out a difference to me, between a school like Staunton River not wanting to play a non Seminole District PUBLIC school (even IF it is a AA school) and what is happening to LCA then I would listen. There is NO DIFFERENCE. Yes I too went to a school in a state that allowed private and public schools in the state sanctioning body. But you know what? We were still "black listed" by some schools and we "black listed" others. Illegal? No. Smart? Probably.
As for the use of the same facilities, I am not sure what that has to do with anything. This isnt' about saying "We don't want to schedule a home game with you b/c we don't want you people in our gym." Help me with that point.
Seperate but equal? Where is a bus to Selma? There is no segregation going on here. If you want to make that point then it is easily argued that the only people "segregating themselves" are the private school folks. After all they are chosing to NOT attend the local school. They are chosing to follow a different policy and they are the ones that are setting themselves apart. The public schools did not FORCE LCA to do anything. LCA could continue to play in the VIC and other schools, they could change the way they do business and conform to the VHSL standards, which would give them a GREAT basis for a law suit, but would still not guarantee them conference admission, they could go the Prep School route or a couple of other avenues.
As for the kool aid, yes I am a big fan of public education. I am also a big fan of private education. So what type of kool aid would I be drinking? Strawberry Kiwi? (Personal fav) As long as there is no grape in it I am ok!

[Hold My Own]

They teach relativistic thought now at LU? Wow, need to take that class. So you are saying that b/c it is good for the VIC it should be imposed on the VHSL. Why? Aren't you advocating what you are claiming now? The VHSL (Seminole Dogwood, Pittsyl....oops not them in particularly) are imposing what THEY feel is best for THEM on LCA and you chaffe, but you want to do the same thing and call it just.
Besides, has anyone asked the FOUNDER of the VIC what his thoughts are? I have.

OK now name dropper, we all know your close to the area high schools, for various reasons (what kool ade was that right there?)

but really I'm not saying it's good for the VIC, I'm saying if I was in the VIC I'd want to get the heck out of there too! It's a complete joke in 9 out of 10 sports....you guys think I'm joking about having to face a girl pitcher and then turn around in AAU and see a 90MPH....it's not a joke....neither is driving 3 hours to beat a team 30-0 and turn right around and come home....I dont care who I made mad I'd do whatever it took to get the heck out of there....what's the worse that can happen in the end, the court system tell you, you cant? That's fine by me, I'm willing to take that chance.

also, I'm sure if LCA was to join the dog wood or some other public HS League then they wouldnt be allowed to play post season ball for a few years....in that time LCA can take care of all of their JFM Scholarships and get on the same level as everyone else...and Brokeback, everything you mentioned about segregation depends on what glasses your wearing (or Koolade your drinking) which doesnt surprise me that your going against LCA in this point, BUT you could say the same that public school system seperated themselves from the Christians when they took God out....I mean we could go on all day with this circular reasoning

[A.G.]

The problem is how can you control it (the JFM mystery money). Scholarships based on NEED?? That is still giving scholarships. I imagine there are at least several families who want and desire a Christian education that are at LCA only b/c of the free $$---and I bet more than a few are NOT even athletes.

[Hold My Own]

well, I dont know the rules like JFjr, if need be still give those in need their money as long as they dont play sports....but then you have another case of "My son should be allowed to play sports AND get a christian edu even though we dont have the money to pay for it"

[jimflamesfan]

Let me try and make a simple argument from when I was in high school.

Along with playing hockey...I was also in marching band. In 1992, Richland High School, where I attended competed in a group of highschools that was called "Tournament of Bands"...(ok...for those that don't understand band stuff...there's a couple of different marching band competition groups...Tournament of Bands, Bands of America, Etc).

But anyway...In 1992 we had a very good marching band, with a very good chance to win championships for our region.

There was another really good marching band in PA at that time, the school was Lake Lehman. Now TOB divided bands into groups based on the number of bandmembers, Groups I, II, III, and IV. Group I was the smallest and Group IV the biggest.

In 1992, Lake Lehman started out in Group III. About three weeks into the competition season...they were somehow able to drop down to Group II...the group we were in.

I remember talkding to my best friend at the time about Lake Leyman dropping down, and now we'd be competing with them. We both agreed that we were happy with it. We'd rather win competing against everyone, than win, and have people say...yeah they won...but Lake Leyman shouldn've been able to compete in group II.

We actually ended up finishing the year in 2nd...and Lake Leyman won. But the point remains. When I was in HS, I would rather compete against everyone and lose...than to exclude someone and get a shallow victory. In the case where it is unclear...I'd rather play everyone than exclude someone.

[jimflamesfan]

Now Brokeback does make a good point about conferences. Again, in PA, Richland's Highschool football team won a total of about 4 games from the time I was in 9th grade until 12th (about 1 game a year).

The reason was, we were on the borderline between a single A school and a AA school. This forced us to play sports in a AA conference, and so we lost all the time to schools with much larger enrollments. So, yes, the system is broken and unfair for public schools, too.

And so public and private schools can suffer unfair consequences in terms of scheduling...but that doesn't make it right.

[bigsmooth]

so gretna driving 30 min to whip altavista or chatham's butt is any different?. cmon HMO, very weak excuse. the dogwood district which is what LCA would play in is not that great either. there are weak teams in every conference/district. it is kinda funny when LCA was struggling in sports, not too long ago, they were fine in the VIC, but a little success and they want to join in with the public schools. . this is football related, b/c they have a tough time scheduling games, and clearly they would save money on travel. the bottom line is this, If LCA quits giving out "scholarships", and becomes a public school, then they will be in the VHSL .that will not happen so they will continue to play in the VIC. if they would have just kept their mouths shut...no boycott. LCA has really just made things worse. why not just quit the VIC since they are so unhappy and be a total independent and then have fun trying to find teams to play.

[Hold My Own]

Smooth, we've made trips that will be 3 times as long as the longest trip you can come up with in the Dogwood....yeah that argument has a lot of legs

Gretna Vs LCA in football would be something I'd love to see. It's just a step in the right direction....it's not a step backwards....I'm telling you, at least at this point you are facing legit competition....if there was a SASSER cup in the Dogwood, I promise you LCA wouldnt win it