[SumItUp]

To answer that question definitively either way is to err, in my opinion.

Scorcho punts.

[SuperJon]

In public schools, does a young Christian student have more influence on their peers or does a secular system that does not recognize God and a worldly peer group have more influence on the Christian student?

I had more influence on my friends.

[El Scorcho]

To answer that question definitively either way is to err, in my opinion.

Scorcho punts.

No, I didn't. I said that you're asking a question that can't be answered with any certainty. If anyone attempts to definitively say that it works one way or the other, they'd have to deal with the hundreds of exceptions. You're talking about a situation with no hard and fast rules and with no real standard for measurement other than the opinions of people who are most certainly not objective.

Sorry, but I think people are too complex and unique to be lumped into generalizations about such things.

[gymrat.chic]

Agreed Scorcho. It depend on the kid and how they were raised. I've seen some Christians go into public school and completely get swept away in the current (said girl is now pregnant) and I've seen some go in and be a bright light for Jesus.

[scuzdriver]

HS is not for everyone. Plain and simple. Hang in there gymrat!

[SuperJon]

I'm going to offend people by this post but quite frankly, I don't care.

The kids that go into a public school who don't acclimate to it or rebel are the ones whose parents force church down their throat. They play basketball, at church. They go to the movies, with church people. They play video games, with church people. All their life is church, church, church. They're "forced" to go three times a week and "forced" to be in the youth choir, drama programs, etc. My mom's a PK, she told me first hand that's why she rebelled as a teenage/early 20's. My aunt did the same thing to her oldest son and now church is the furthest thing from his mind, and he even came here for a year. The kids who go into public school and every other word out of their mouth is about Jesus or they condemn people left and right saying they need Jesus (see: Mandy Moore in Saved) are the ones that eventually do have problems with bullies, the ones that don't like public school. There has to be a balance growing up. When I was younger, I went to church on Sunday morning and Wednesday nights. My parents let me choose to be in the drama groups. They didn't make me. Once I didn't want to do it anymore, I didn't have to. I wasn't forced into the youth choir. I played rec league baseball, basketball, soccer, and hockey. I went to a Christian day care until 6th grade. It was run by the church so we had the Christian principles but it wasn't full of Christian kids. I've had my times when I probably wasn't the best witness, but I always came back to God. I've never drank. I've never smoked. I was in public school for nearly 15 years (K-12, freshman year in college and first semester sophomore year in college). Every single person who knew me knew that I was a Christian. When they had questions about religion, they came to me. I was one of the people showing them they hey, you can be a Christian and not have your nose in the Bible all of the time. You can be a Christian and still be friends with people who aren't. You can be a Christian and, instead of preaching to them all of the time, you can witness to them by the way that you live your life and the way that you act. You learn absolutely nothing being in a God-bubble all of the time. That's why Liberty graduates who were home schooled/Christian schooled are so confused and have no clue what to do when they graduate. I'm glad I got to experiences things when I was 13, 14, 15 years old so that I knew how to react to them. I think home schooling, especially past middle school, is completely stupid and counterproductive. It doesn't allow you to learn the social skills that are so vital to be a successful person in life. The same can be said for small Christian schools. You live in the world, you learn from the world, and then, and only then can you go out and try to change to world. There are exceptions to everything, but ask any public schooled kid on this board and I can almost guarantee they'd feel the same way.

[LUconn]

Sweeping generalizations. A lot of the conclusions that you've made are completely baseless or things you think you have observed. Logically, what you said seems like it would be correct. That's what you always here about are a lack of "social skills". But nobody can back it up with anything other than garbage anecdotal evidence. If we're gonna use that, there were many homeschooled kids in my dorm who were completely normal. In fact they were some of the more well liked people.

[SuperJon]

My opinion is based on things that I have seen in my life. I've had kids that I grew up with in church who were forced to do everything go off the deep end when they were able to do things on their own. I know what my mom and her siblings did when they finally weren't being controlled by their dad. I know people from my high school who did the exact things I said. There are exceptions, we all know that, that's why I put it in there.

[LUconn]

I understand that, but you can't assume that you've observed enough to make an accurate statement where you know the rule and the rest are exceptions.

"I think home schooling, especially past middle school, is completely stupid and counterproductive. It doesn't allow you to learn the social skills that are so vital to be a successful person in life. "

That's a pretty definative statement. You basically just said that majortiy of homeschoolers are not successful.

There are exceptions to everything, but ask any public schooled kid on this board and I can almost guarantee they'd feel the same way.

And in case you were wondering I am 100% public schooled in the great state of Connecticut where I knew of probably 2 other christians in my school. And I didn't even really know them.

[SuperJon]

What am I supposed to say? Well, um, I think that it might not let you develop, but I could be wrong, but I think that, even though I could be wrong? Uh, no. If I'm going to give an opinion, I'm going to be definitive in it. I'm not going to be wishy-washy. My opinion is based on my life, what I've experienced, the people I've come in contact with, the teachers I've talked to, etc. Your opinion is different. That makes life great.

[LUconn]

sure, you can have your opinions and prejudices just like anybody else but don't expect to come on here and trash a whole group of people and not be challenged on it. Especially when you have nothing of substance to back it up with. Public school has more than it's share of wierdos.

[SuperJon]

How is personal experience nothing of substance? I knew there'd be arguments against me, but how can you say that someone's personal experiences aren't something to base an argument on?

[thepostman]

I know I had said I would bow out of this thread...but so many things have been said i just can't be quiet...

Why is it alright for the homeschool kids to give generalizations about public school kids? and when someone that comes from a public school background does the same thing it is all of a sudden wrong?? It can't go both ways...

It all comes back to how the parents deal with church....my sister rebelled big time because my parents thought it was good to force her to go to church...and then she rebelled...so they learned and were much less strict with me and even less strict with my brothers...I am not going to say I was perfect...but by not having forceful parents it helps a whole lot...I am not talking about passive parents...but parents that just don't force you to do every little thing....

and in a lot of cases homeschoolers get into the real world and are so shocked by it they just don't know how to react...it has been proven simply by posts in this thread by homeschoolers...

[LUconn]

How is personal experience nothing of substance? I knew there'd be arguments against me, but how can you say that someone's personal experiences aren't something to base an argument on?

Because you've probably had personal experience with .00000000000001% of the homeschool population. I don't think I can judge how successful New Mexicans are on the 2 that I've ever met. I guess I just think it's funny that if you replaced the word "homeschooler" with "black people" or "jew" you'd be chastised.

[SuperJon]

Yea, because home schooled kids are a race. That was the dumbest analogy you've ever used.

[LUconn]

I didn't say it was a race. It's a classification of a group of people. Just like New Mexicans.

[thepostman]

LU Conn's gone PC on us!!

dude come on...I know you are meaning well, but that was terrible

[LUconn]

but anyway now we're talking about something completely different. So if there's socially inept kids in public schools and that are homeschooled. And there are successful adults that were public schooled and homeschooled. Don't you think there's another factor in the equation? Like parenting?

[SuperJon]

If you read mine, and part of what Posty said, we both said that overparenting (which is what a lot of homeschooling is) is the main problem behind all of this stuff.

[thepostman]

hold on...i think i mentioned...

IIt all comes back to how the parents deal with church....my sister rebelled big time because my parents thought it was good to force her to go to church...and then she rebelled...so they learned and were much less strict with me and even less strict with my brothers...I am not going to say I was perfect...but by not having forceful parents it helps a whole lot...I am not talking about passive parents...but parents that just don't force you to do every little thing....

oh yeah...i did...

a lot of parents who homeschool fall into the category of forcful...not all...but a lot...thats my point

[LUconn]

alright now you guys are agreeing that is is parenting but there's still this ugly mug hanging out there.

I think home schooling, especially past middle school, is completely stupid and counterproductive. It doesn't allow you to learn the social skills that are so vital to be a successful person in life. The same can be said for small Christian schools. You live in the world, you learn from the world, and then, and only then can you go out and try to change to world.

[thepostman]

thats our opinion...this whole thing got started by me giving my opinion...and SJ later came in....this whole arguement is based off of opinion....you don't have to agree with somebody's opinion...there are no cold, hard facts on either sides to be honest...I will never homeschool my future kids and I explained why...that is when the homeschool crowd came out and completely attacked me for having a freaking opinion....they thought they were doing well, but what they didn't realize is they were just making the opinions I have even stronger....

If you want to homeschool your kid, fine...I don't have to agree with it...I may think its going to hurt your kid in the future, but in the end its your choice and your opinion...its a shame you guys on the other side of this issue don't see it that way

[ALUmnus]

Thanks everyone for hijacking my thread trying to gain useful information for the future education of my children, which by the way did not make any mention of homeschooling. But in the process many of you have shown yourselves to be buffoons and lack the logic and argumentative skills to actually make a valid point. This board is starting to look like the Letter to the Editor page of the N&A. Do you people really believe what you say, or even realize what you're saying? I'm not going to go off on a debate about this, but homeshooling is one of the greatest things any parent can do for their child (and I am 100% public school educated), and for you guys to trash it and those raised by it with baseless reasoning makes mockery of your ignorance. Leave these people alone, as parents they're doing the right thing for their children and is no harm to anyone, including their children. Goodness, sometimes I just shake my head at the Christian population around here, just amazing.

[thepostman]

I gave my opinion, and said I would never homeschool my kids...I then was attacked for having the opinion I did and had to respond. I do feel this whole thing is based off of ones personal convictions and opinions. There are no facts. To say that there are facts would be ignorant.

Do I agree with homeschooling?? Once again, no...but I do not feel I should allow to be trashed on by people simply because they disagree...so ALUmnus I don't know if your post was directed towards me at all, but I have been very polite and no way have I trashed on anybody...simply stated my opinion and when I was attacked I responded...

My last post explained it all very well I think....

...this whole thing got started by me giving my opinion...and SJ later came in....this whole arguement is based off of opinion....you don't have to agree with somebody's opinion...there are no cold, hard facts on either sides to be honest...I will never homeschool my future kids and I explained why...that is when the homeschool crowd came out and completely attacked me for having a freaking opinion....they thought they were doing well, but what they didn't realize is they were just making the opinions I have even stronger....

If you want to homeschool your kid, fine...I don't have to agree with it...I may think its going to hurt your kid in the future, but in the end its your choice and your opinion...its a shame you guys on the other side of this issue don't see it that way

[LUconn]

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