[Schfourteenteen]

Because Sly hasn't yet.

[LUminary]

I gotta tell you too, reading the comments on WSET's FB is serious entertainment, the LU haters are going to town...

That's the truth. Same on newspaper story comments. Some of those comments are incredible. Not totally surprising, but incredible.

[matshark]

As a libertarian, I often criticize heavy handed police responses and the growing police state. However, I also try to point out good cops and proper responses when I see them. (You cant criticize something and not provide an example of a better alternative). Everything ive gathered on this case (reported and otherwise) gives me an extremely high degree of confidence in saying that this was entirely justified. Understanding how extremely close range confrontations go down (I.e. sledgehammer range), gives me a special appreciation for just how likely it was that we could be reading the other headline (lu officer killed by student with a hammer). From my understanding of the facts, I wouldve reacted in exactly the same way, and my mma background wouldve served only to buy me space to use my firearm as well. Likely from the ground. A hammer is serious business, and while ive done ground training with fake knives and guns, a hammer is nothing to joke about. Even a glancing blow will disorient, followed by incapacitation and death on the next 2. I have a high degree of confidence in saying this was completely justified in the face of (in my opinion) an extreme immediate threat to life.

[ATrain]

As a libertarian, I often criticize heavy handed police responses and the growing police state. However, I also try to point out good cops and proper responses when I see them. (You cant criticize something and not provide an example of a better alternative). Everything ive gathered on this case (reported and otherwise) gives me an extremely high degree of confidence in saying that this was entirely justified. Understanding how extremely close range confrontations go down (I.e. sledgehammer range), gives me a special appreciation for just how likely it was that we could be reading the other headline (lu officer killed by student with a hammer). From my understanding of the facts, I wouldve reacted in exactly the same way, and my mma background wouldve served only to buy me space to use my firearm as well. Likely from the ground. A hammer is serious business, and while ive done ground training with fake knives and guns, a hammer is nothing to joke about. Even a glancing blow will disorient, followed by incapacitation and death on the next 2. I have a high degree of confidence in saying this was completely justified in the face of (in my opinion) an extreme immediate threat to life.

+1

[NotAJerry]

I would argue that it results from institutionalized changes in how police are trained to treat citizens.

Nonsense. I spent most of the last 9 years training everyone from regular Capitol Police to Dignitary Protection Officers, Secret Service Agents, DIA, DEA, folks at the Joint Counter Intelligence Training Academy, etc. If anything, police are trained to be MORE sensitive and willing to put up with crap from people now than they were when I started working with them.

As far as use of force goes, those standards have been the same for quite a long time with no reason for them to be changed. The rule of thumb we used was 1 level above what you were being attacked with. If someone attacks with their fists, you use some sort of weapon to neutralize them, likely a spray, tazer, or baton. If they attack with a weapon, you go up to something stronger, including a gun with lethal force if necessary.

[rogers3]

As a libertarian, I often criticize heavy handed police responses and the growing police state. However, I also try to point out good cops and proper responses when I see them. (You cant criticize something and not provide an example of a better alternative). Everything ive gathered on this case (reported and otherwise) gives me an extremely high degree of confidence in saying that this was entirely justified. Understanding how extremely close range confrontations go down (I.e. sledgehammer range), gives me a special appreciation for just how likely it was that we could be reading the other headline (lu officer killed by student with a hammer). From my understanding of the facts, I wouldve reacted in exactly the same way, and my mma background wouldve served only to buy me space to use my firearm as well. Likely from the ground. A hammer is serious business, and while ive done ground training with fake knives and guns, a hammer is nothing to joke about. Even a glancing blow will disorient, followed by incapacitation and death on the next 2. I have a high degree of confidence in saying this was completely justified in the face of (in my opinion) an extreme immediate threat to life.

Given what has been printed and reported so far, I agree. In talking with a friend at LPD, he commented on the scenario; close quarters and adrenaline can hamper an individuals attempts to subdue or neutralize a threat unless they are well trained.

[thepostman]

I never believe a word coming out notajerry's posts anyways

[Purple Haize]

I never believe a word coming out notajerry's posts anyways

I thought he was on disability because of his back. Which makes Mr wonder what type of training he is doing. SIGINT?

[thepostman]

Dan Snyder was involved somehow too

[NotAJerry]

My back doesn't preclude me from firing a weapon, specifically in simunition training, nor does it preclude me from observing, role playing, or designing training exercises.

Of course, it's par for the course for the delusional defenders of all things LU to derive a conspiracy where there isn't one and then be antichrist in their attacks on others. Seriously, how pathetic are your miserable little lives that you have to be fake tough guys on the internet and argue with, now 3, people who know far more about law enforcement training and protocol than you do?

Here's the DHS contractor badge I had for the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center. They just hand those out to anyone (there needs to be a dedicated sarcasm font).

https://plus.google.com/photos?pid=5948 ... 7569141992

(I tried pasting the image in here, but it couldn't determine the size for some reason)

[ATrain]

I agree with BYD that LOCAL GOVERNMENT police units beginning to look more like special forces and driving MRAPs are a sign things have changed.

However, that point has NOTHING TO DO with this conversation. The security guard was trying to help and then was blindsided, necessitating the use of force to save his life that tragically resulted in the loss of life.

Finally, NAJ - I appreciate the training you deliver. My office necessitates the presence of at least one armed FPS officer while it is occupied, and there are multiple times I'm grateful for their presences.

[Purple Haize]

My back doesn't preclude me from firing a weapon, specifically in simunition training, nor does it preclude me from observing, role playing, or designing training exercises.

Of course, it's par for the course for the delusional defenders of all things LU to derive a conspiracy where there isn't one and then be antichrist in their attacks on others. Seriously, how pathetic are your miserable little lives that you have to be fake tough guys on the internet and argue with, now 3, people who know far more about law enforcement training and protocol than you do?

Here's the DHS contractor badge I had for the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center. They just hand those out to anyone (there needs to be a dedicated sarcasm font).

https://plus.google.com/photos?pid=5948 ... 7569141992

(I tried pasting the image in here, but it couldn't determine the size for some reason)

Dude, relax. Antichrist? Really? There were no personal attacks. You have asked for prayer several times regarding your work and your back, which people, including myself, have willingly done. So knowing that can you not see that there would be curiosity about your 'training' comment? If you've been unable to work, then claim to be a trainer for law enforcement you shouldn't be surprised or offended when people have question. Then you engage in the very person attacks you condemn. Hypocritical much?
You also don't know the background, law enforcement, military or ?'other', that some posters have on this board. I know you would be surprised and impressed.
So in the words of SgT Hulka 'Lighten up, Francis"

[Schfourteenteen]

At some point Hathaway broke away from the officer, and the officer fired twice at Hathaway, according to the warrant. Hathaway was hit by at least one bullet. The security officer has been suspended, pending a police investigation.

http://www.wdbj7.com/news/local/lynchbu ... index.html

[Purple Haize]

At some point Hathaway broke away from the officer, and the officer fired twice at Hathaway, according to the warrant. Hathaway was hit by at least one bullet. The security officer has been suspended, pending a police investigation.

http://www.wdbj7.com/news/local/lynchbu ... index.html

Pretty standard in cases of shooting of any kind. I hope and pray he is getting the help he needs.

[PAmedic]

"paid administrative leave" is standard, anyway- never heard "suspension" before.

then again- we have strong unions up here.

hopefully something was lost in translation when the story was written.

[Purple Haize]

"paid administrative leave" is standard, anyway- never heard "suspension" before.

then again- we have strong unions up here.

hopefully something was lost in translation when the story was written.

I'm going with a misquote/misspeak

[Purple Haize]

My back doesn't preclude me from firing a weapon, specifically in simunition training, nor does it preclude me from observing, role playing, or designing training exercises.

Of course, it's par for the course for the delusional defenders of all things LU to derive a conspiracy where there isn't one and then be antichrist in their attacks on others. Seriously, how pathetic are your miserable little lives that you have to be fake tough guys on the internet and argue with, now 3, people who know far more about law enforcement training and protocol than you do?

Here's the DHS contractor badge I had for the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center. They just hand those out to anyone (there needs to be a dedicated sarcasm font).

https://plus.google.com/photos?pid=5948 ... 7569141992

(I tried pasting the image in here, but it couldn't determine the size for some reason)

Actually, they do.

[matshark]

Im highly inclined to agree with BYD here in regards to the increasing police state. The fact that NAJ is offering a DHS badge as proof of his experience inclines me to think he's a commie POS who has never read the Constitution. Promoting tyranny under the guise of 'law enforcement'. Want legitimacy? Stop acting like the DHS is anything remotely worthy of carrying the title of law enforcement when its very existence is an abrogation of the law.

[thepostman]

tell us how you really feel!!

[RubberMallet]

that avatar through me off. i was like BJ LAYIN THE SMACK

[adam42381]

that avatar through me off. i was like BJ LAYIN THE SMACK

Same here. Every time I see one of matshark's posts I assume it's Beejay.

[Cider Jim]

Don't let the avatar fool you: if it's well written with no misspellings (hte), it's matshark's.

[ATrain]

Don't let the avatar fool you: if it's well written with no misspellings (hte), it's matshark's.

This.
Plus when was the last time he posted on here anyway?

[ALUmnus]

Here's the official account of what happened. Picture of the hammer, also.

http://www.newsadvance.com/news/local/p ... b2370.html

[Purple Haize]

Well, I guess it's his word versus no one. If I am reading this correctly the student no longer had the hammer when he was shot, but had reached for the officer's gun?

That's what it sounds like. I think once you try to attack someone with a hammer it's on. Several things were interesting. The first was that the officer tried to fire his weapon and it didn't fire. You would think if the student was in his right mind, he would have seen that and backed off. Secondly, the tox report came back clean. Finally, I'm very surprised there are no surveillance cameras in the lobby. That seems to have been a no brainer.

I think this student just snapped. I have seen it happen.