[olldflame]

After reading JJ's clarification as to what was actually done, I can see his reasoning, but it was still not handled well. The club hasn't been disbanded. They are free to meet, and if I understand it correctly, this includes meetings on campus. They simply will not be formally recognized or endorsed by the school. I can't see that any first amendment rights have been violated.

It sounds like the club members were not exactly honest in their dealings with the school from the beginning. They told the administration they were pro life in order to be recognized in the first place, and then consistantly supported pro abortion candidates.

[matshark]

I agree with mallet. One of my good friends and a pastor at my church is a democrat. He is socially conservative but very much for the liberal fiscal plans. He also grew up in a part of Michigan where is entire family is a member of a union.

yes, and we see where liberal fiscal plans have gotten MI and CA. and just because you're part of a union, doesn't mean unions aren't very destructive forces in the business and political world. membership is forced. you must pay dues. (legalized extortion if you will) then they force so many concessions from employers that they are unable to remain profitable and must go into bankruptcy. (see Chrysler and GM) so maybe he should be rethinking that whole union/liberal fiscal policy thing. i mean, unemployment up there is like 12%. there's a good chance one of his family members just lost their job. maybe they'll have time to sit and think that all those auto workers that aren't unionized (i.e. honda, toyota, etc...) might be onto something afterall.

oh, and there's that other thing... that Democrat is next to Socialist.

I'm glad Liberty kicked the Dem Club to the curb. I'm not for being fair. I'm for doing what's right. And what's 'right' and what's 'fair' are not always the same thing.

[LUconn]

I agree with mallet. One of my good friends and a pastor at my church is a democrat. He is socially conservative but very much for the liberal fiscal plans. He also grew up in a part of Michigan where is entire family is a member of a union.

yes, and we see where liberal fiscal plans have gotten MI and CA. and just because you're part of a union, doesn't mean unions aren't very destructive forces in the business and political world. membership is forced. you must pay dues. (legalized extortion if you will) then they force so many concessions from employers that they are unable to remain profitable and must go into bankruptcy. (see Chrysler and GM) so maybe he should be rethinking that whole union/liberal fiscal policy thing. i mean, unemployment up there is like 12%. there's a good chance one of his family members just lost their job. maybe they'll have time to sit and think that all those auto workers that aren't unionized (i.e. honda, toyota, etc...) might be onto something afterall.

oh, and there's that other thing... that Democrat is next to Socialist.

I'm glad Liberty kicked the Dem Club to the curb. I'm not for being fair. I'm for doing what's right. And what's 'right' and what's 'fair' are not always the same thing.

I think this whole situation seems to have gone over your head. Obviously liberal fiscal policy is retarded to us. That doesn't mean you can't think that way and go to LU or be a Christian and hold those view points. That's what this is about. However, I have no problem with LU simply pulling their "support" from this group. It's really not a big deal as opposed to the disbanding that was originally reported.

[PAmedic]

I was interested to hear from MECHILDRESS on this one- but maybe it wouldn't be a good idea for her to come on here and speak about it. Not sure that it would be beneficial for her career- that's kinda sad, but that's the way it goes sometimes.

I'm not allowed a political opinion when at work either, and I even have to be careful when off-duty. Just the way it is.

[RagingTireFire]

I'm sorry. This is really stupid. I take a lot of crap from people for stuff that goes on at LU, but I'm not going to stand behind this decision. Silencing the opposing point of view is not how we should go about doing things. There's another part to that whole First Amendment thing besides freedom of religion, you know.

While I don't disagree with the gist of your post, the First Amendment only applies to government and has nothing to do with this. Private citizens and institutions are free to restrict or repress speech pretty much however they choose. Whether they should or not is obviously another issue entirely.

[Ed Dantes]

Falwell was a registered Democrat at one point. The same with pretty much everyone in the South.

Just thought I'd throw that out there.

[SuperJon]

Jr's clarification is good, and I can see the point behind it, but unfortunately the damage is already done. Every national publication that put something out yesterday isn't going to retract it and make a new article with what Jr said. Either the people in the club lied/exaggerated (which honestly wouldn't surprise me) or we changed the policy after the article came out. Unfortunately for us, I think the first option is what happened, and that's what people will remember.

[RagingTireFire]

Jr's clarification is good, and I can see the point behind it, but unfortunately the damage is already done. Every national publication that put something out yesterday isn't going to retract it and make a new article with what Jr said. Either the people in the club lied/exaggerated (which honestly wouldn't surprise me) or we changed the policy after the article came out. Unfortunately for us, I think the first option is what happened, and that's what people will remember.

I see a certain amount of logic to LU's decision but, unfortunately, it's all about eight months too late. The time to address the problem was when the club was formed. If LU didn't want the College Democrats, they should never have granted them the charter in the first place. If the values of the DNC aren't in tune with the mission of Liberty now, they certainly weren't in tune with it back in October. And you can't tell me that the CD getting their charter is the kind of thing that just slipped through the system and got rubber-stamped by some nameless administrator. Someone had to see that come across their desk and say to themselves, "Hmm, maybe I should ask about this."

My larger concern is that this decision, regardless of the reasoning, has effectively created martyrs to the left out of these kids and their advisor. It's basically another Carrie Prejean situation in reverse -- only without all the name-calling -- with Perez Hilton and Shanna Moakler played by Mark Hine and Jerry Jr.

Snarky question: Is Liberty still going to offer the "Stand Up For Liberty" scholarship and subsidize the future participation of people who stand up for political freedom? And is another school now going to get Diaz & Friends to transfer to their school by offering the "Stand Up To Liberty" scholarship?

[Baldspot]

Wording is everything. Where are the PR people when you need them?

[Covert Hawk]

here is some other national news programs Liberty made. Not exactly great publicity

[GoUNCA]

I agree with mallet. One of my good friends and a pastor at my church is a democrat. He is socially conservative but very much for the liberal fiscal plans. He also grew up in a part of Michigan where is entire family is a member of a union.

yes, and we see where liberal fiscal plans have gotten MI and CA. and just because you're part of a union, doesn't mean unions aren't very destructive forces in the business and political world. membership is forced. you must pay dues. (legalized extortion if you will) then they force so many concessions from employers that they are unable to remain profitable and must go into bankruptcy. (see Chrysler and GM) so maybe he should be rethinking that whole union/liberal fiscal policy thing. i mean, unemployment up there is like 12%. there's a good chance one of his family members just lost their job. maybe they'll have time to sit and think that all those auto workers that aren't unionized (i.e. honda, toyota, etc...) might be onto something afterall.

oh, and there's that other thing... that Democrat is next to Socialist.

I'm glad Liberty kicked the Dem Club to the curb. I'm not for being fair. I'm for doing what's right. And what's 'right' and what's 'fair' are not always the same thing.

Regardless of the change in story, Liberty has never been good with PR. Why would anyone expect anything different from your administration?

And the Republican plan is to spend and run up deficits too? I'm not sure if I see the difference between the two parties there. MI and CA were doing fine during a good economy as was SC (which is pretty republican). Any fiscal policy is going to be vulnerable to the ups and downs of the economy. I've always thought it would be a smarter move to budget by percentage rather than dollar amount. But even that isn't going to prevent shortfalls. I don't really have a problem with your union argument, they can be just as bad one way as being non-unionized can be the other way.

This whole socialist thing is ignorant and nothing but a big slippery slope argument....

Democrat : Socialist :: Republican : Anarchist

[olldflame]

It's pretty easy now to say the school made a mistake sanctioning the club to begin with. Once they realized this, they had to chose whether to bite the bullet and admit their mistake as they did or to let the group continue to do things in the name of LU which contradict the schools positions. In 20-20 hindsight, I think they did the right thing, but should have gone to the media themselves with a full explaination rather than let the club misstate what was done, resulting in the current inaccurate perception of banning/censorship.

Being criticized by Keith Olberman and Rachel Maddow is not exactly something I would be embarassed about though. In fact, if I were Mark Hine (whom I went to school with back in the day) I would feel dissed for only coming in 3rd for "worst person in the world".

[mrmacphisto]

Just when I had started to think my alma mater was getting smarter.

Stupid move. Just plain dumb.

[flamesbball84]

Liberty needs to learn the simple newspaper rule and it would help them tremendously. Will the decision make headline news in a negative manner? If yes, then it's most likely wise not to do it.

[olldflame]

Liberty needs to learn the simple newspaper rule and it would help them tremendously. Will the decision make headline news in a negative manner? If yes, then it's most likely wise not to do it.

While it is something which needs to be taken into account, I hope and pray the day never comes when decisions are made at my alma matre based on how they will be perceived in the media.

[ToTheLeft]

This whole socialist thing is ignorant and nothing but a big slippery slope argument....

Democrat : Socialist :: Republican : Anarchist

Why do you Asheville folk have to make so many good points?

It makes it tougher to dislike you.

[flamesbball84]

Liberty needs to learn the simple newspaper rule and it would help them tremendously. Will the decision make headline news in a negative manner? If yes, then it's most likely wise not to do it.

While it is something which needs to be taken into account, I hope and pray the day never comes when decisions are made at my alma matre based on how they will be perceived in the media.

It would do them good to at least consider it, which they apparently never do given the decisions LU has made and some of the absolutely moronic things some LU folks have said just in the last 10 years or so. I'm sure if they would have used that rule when they put up the politically incorrect sign, that the sign would have never gone up.

[LUconn]

Shuck, you're such a retard. Its fairly obvious you have no clue what is in the best interest of LU. Why on earth would they compromise any core beliefs for the sake of pr? I think that's pretty low on the totem pole when it comes to decision making. They're running a school not running for office.

[olldflame]

It doesn't look like all of the "moronic" things you claim have been said by LU "folks" in the last 10 years have hurt enrollment or finances much, have they shuck?

Prioritizing core beliefs while being open to positive change is what has attracted the influx of both students and donations. If they were to become too PR oriented they would take a huge hit with donations, and while it might attract some students, I'm not sure they're the ones we want.

[flamesbball84]

It doesn't look like all of the "moronic" things you claim have been said by LU "folks" in the last 10 years have hurt enrollment or finances much, have they shuck?

Prioritizing core beliefs while being open to positive change is what has attracted the influx of both students and donations. If they were to become too PR oriented they would take a huge hit with donations, and while it might attract some students, I'm not sure they're the ones we want.

Positive change? What positive change? Don't give me that positive change crap in the SAME thread where people are complaining about how the school is not open to change, as evidenced by the school revoking support for a democratic club! living a dream by saying that positive change non-sense...

When 43% of the current student body had a high school gpa of below 3.0, your standards are pretty low and pretty much means anyone that can fill out an application has what it takes to get in to LU, it's pretty hard for anything short of a depression to negatively effect enrollment. However, while enrollment is good, retention is not particularly good at 73%...

[flamesbball84]

don't think PR is important? tell that to the kids who are negatively effected when they try to get a job because they went to Liberty or when LU kids try to transfer and cant get their credits to transfer because they went to Liberty.

[ECUnited]

Just got an e-mail with an explanation of the decision and the new club policies. All alumni should have or will receive the e-mail.

[SuperJon]

I even got it twice.

[olldflame]

Well, it seems we have a self-appointed "expert" in our midst. Do you know a single person who has been denied a job because they went to Liberty shuk? Our graduates are doing fine, thank you, and not only get good jobs, but are accepted at top graduate programs on a regular basis, including prestigious medical and law schools. As far as positive changes are concerned, having attended the school for 6 years in the early days and followed it's progress for some 30 years since graduating, I think I know a bit more about that than you do. This little business about the democratic club is barely a blip on the radar screen.

[bigsmooth]

shuk you have to be the biggest idiot to ever come to flamefans. what the heck do you know about LU grads being denied jobs?? please stay away from this bord if you cannot bring something intelligent here.