[asforme]

I just registered here so I could contribute. Several months ago I sent Jerry Jr. an email on behalf of students for concealed carry on campus, I'm going to let you all read the important parts of it. I did a good bit of research that points to the fact that guns on campus do in fact create a safer environment.

Liberty University maintains an excellent security force through LUPD and while Liberty's campus is generally a very safe place to live, study and work, dangers exist everywhere. In 2006 there were 4 instances of forcible sex offenses on campus. Additionally, threats that were made towards Dr. Falwell still serve as evidence that many in the world have an irrational hatred for the principles that this university stands for. It is simply impossible for LUPD to be everywhere and capable of defending everyone should someone decide to express their hatred through the type of senseless violence that has plagued several campuses in America.

Conventional policy in many educational facilities has reflected the notion that prohibiting firearms will lead to a safer environment, but as Liberty prides itself in "an absolute repudiation of 'political correctness'" and "a strong commitment to political conservatism" it is important to dismiss emotional rhetoric and focus on factual data so that the most effective policies can be put in place to make Liberty University as safe as possible.

It is apparent that campus policies prohibiting firearms did nothing to prevent the recent tragedies on the campuses of Virginia Tech and Northern Illinois University. It is logical to assume that an individual who is prone to commit murder will not be swayed by laws or rules preventing the possession of a tool to commit their crime.

After looking at what has not worked in the past, we can also look elsewhere in the country where firearms regulations are not in effect on college campuses. Less than 100 miles north of Liberty is Blue Ridge Community College, a campus with 9612 registered students. Their weapons policy provides an exemption for Virginia concealed handgun permit holders, allowing them to carry a concealed handgun on campus. Not only has their policy not lead to the types of mass shootings that have occurred on other campuses, but a look at their crime incident report reveals that no violent crimes occurred on the campus at all. Their incident reports (available at http://www.brcc.edu/student/right/incident.htm) consist nearly entirely of accidents.

An example of a larger, traditional University where firearms are not prohibited when carried lawfully by permit holders is Brigham Young University in Utah. Utah state law does not allow universities to prohibit the licensed carrying of a concealed firearm. BYU has over 30,000 students attending full or 3/4 time, and even more students at half time or less. Brigham Young University's crime report (available at http://police.byu.edu/images/stories/po ... Report.pdf) shows only two instances of violence (aggravated assault) and zero sex offenses. There were not even any weapons violations in the crime report,despite the fact that students are documented to be carrying concealed weapons in Brigham Young University (see http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/02/20/cnnu.guns/index.html).

We understand that there are many concerns when firearms are available in public. There has often been a concern voiced that people with access to weapons will use those weapons to accelerate a disagreement into a deadly altercation. This has not been shown to be the case, on college campuses that allow concealed carry, or in any of the 39 states that now have shall-issue concealed carry licenses. There is also concern that in the event of a mass shooting, someone acting in self defense could miss, causing bystanders to be shot, this also has no substantial evidence behind it. But even in a hypothetical situation it is a stretch to believe that someone with good intentions could be any more dangerous than letting someone with the goal of murder go on uninterrupted. Police departments have issued concern that they would not be easily able to identify a criminal by the presence of their gun. However, if police forces were empowered by the ability to recognize a criminal from their gun, one would have to conclude that cities with strict gun control are safer because of the fact. This, however, is not true. Licensed concealed carry has consistently led to lower crime rates.

I do not believe these views are contrary to the views or mission of Liberty University. Liberty Counsel even celebrated the recent Supreme Court ruling striking down a handgun ban in the District of Columbia with a resounding "Praise the Lord and Pass the Ammunition." (see http://www.lc.org/index.cfm?PID=14100& <http> PRID=705) Matthew D. Staver, the Dean of Liberty University School of Law stated in a press release that "The right to self-defense is a liberty at the core of the American Revolution." Liberty University should show support for the US Constitution by making that right available to those who work and study at Liberty.

[Sly Fox]

Thanks for registering and sharing your letter.

[portapost]

Personally, I oppose guns on campus but not from a "somebody's gonna go Columbine" perspective. I've worked on 3 college campuses and my wife has worked on 2 and we've seen the amount of alcohol that flows through most college dorms these days. I can't imagine adding live ammunition to the mix.

Have you seen the amount of alcohol that flows OFF campus? The same 21 year old, background checked, trained individual can carry there too (mostly regardless of location).

Secondly, if this idea were to be implemented at some schools, I think you would see a sharp rise in firearm-related suicides on college campuses

This is implemented in a number of schools, and as stated earlier, in all of Utah. There has not been a "sharp rise in firearm-related suicides" just because these institutions allow concealed carry permit holders to carry on campus.

I'm fine because the people around me carrying guns aren't college kids who think they can quick-draw out of any situation.

Actually, some of them are. In fact, I'm a college kid, and I carry. Boo!

The fact is, with the permit comes a bit of education. We know that we can't quick draw out of any situation, and we know that having a gun does not make us invincible. But is that still enough of a reason to tell someone that they cannot even attempt, or prepare, to defend themselves? You're trying to use a hypothetical and generalize it so much as to say that the whole of the college population that COULD carry should now NOT be able to carry simply because they MIGHT make a mistake. I think you MIGHT mess up driving later and kill someone. Please don't drive tonight. It's for your own safety.

Quite honestly, I'm not opposed to concealed carry in general but if college kids are going to get to start packing heat on campus, I'm keeping my alumni at home. I wouldn't even think of coming back to another on-campus function ever again and I certainly would not bring my family.

Make sure you don't use any public roads, eat at any local restaurants, or shop at any local stores while you're here... "College kids" are carrying at these places quite regularly.

If you really think having a gun makes you safer here, you got problems.

Tell that to the dude that was murdered at the Super 8 beside Macado's earlier this summer. I realize it's not on campus, but it's pretty close.

Find a statistic that says there is less crime at Utah schools than there is here, even tho the demographics there are totally different and it's almost apples to oranges, please, find a stat that says there is less crime.

So we should only be able to prepare to defend ourselves if the demographics line up? It's definitely not apples to oranges. Human beings, regardless of race, location, or nationality, are 100% corruptible. They are just as capable of evil in Utah as they are in Virginia,. What you should be asking for is the stat that shows more crime prior to allowing handguns to be carried on campus. That will show you whether or not crime dropped. I don't have the stats with me, but I would bet my (worthless) money on it lowering. What is obvious, however, is that adding guns to the mix didn't create an increase in suicides. There wasn't an epidemic of firefights breaking out over girls. Drunk college kids weren't heating each other up with they 9's. These hypothetical, worst case scenarios that you and others like you keep mentioning are just not happening.

The reason you don't hear about them being dangerous campuses is that you wouldn't usually hear about Utah on the news, it's a relatively irrelevant state in terms of big time news reports

That's such a bogus argument. I absolutely guarantee you that gun violence at a Utah school would be reported on just as heavily as gun violence at any other higher ed. institution. Whether the state is irrelevant or not makes no difference. The idea here is that LIFE is relevant, and gun violence--actions against life with guns--especially on college campuses is a huge media magnet.

I'll concede that guns on campus may not lower the crime rate (while it won't increase it, either). However, my end-goal isn't a lower crime rate--it's the ability to defend myself against evil should evil try to take advantage of me.

[asforme]

Find a statistic that says there is less crime at Utah schools than there is here, even tho the demographics there are totally different and it's almost apples to oranges, please, find a stat that says there is less crime.

...

In 2006 there were 4 instances of forcible sex offenses on campus.

...

An example of a larger, traditional University where firearms are not prohibited when carried lawfully by permit holders is Brigham Young University in Utah. Utah state law does not allow universities to prohibit the licensed carrying of a concealed firearm. BYU has over 30,000 students attending full or 3/4 time, and even more students at half time or less. Brigham Young University's crime report (available at http://police.byu.edu/images/stories/po ... Report.pdf) shows only two instances of violence (aggravated assault) and zero sex offenses. There were not even any weapons violations in the crime report,despite the fact that students are documented to be carrying concealed weapons in Brigham Young University (see http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/02/20/cnnu.guns/index.html).
.

[JDUB]

you could use the same statistic to say it doesn't increase crime, so there is no reason to not allow it.

No, you can't say that. You can't say that at all.

You and A-train's whole argument to this point has been that having guns on campus would reduce crime and, according to these statistics, that argument is empty. The central question of whether or not to allow concealed carry is really one of safety. Does an increased armed presence on campus improve safety from crime as opposed to the risk posed by that many more people carrying firearms? With such a low crime rate, to introduce guns onto campus would provide only marginal additional safety at best and would provide an exponentially greater amount of risk, not from crime but from firearm-related stupidity.

the difference in this and DUI or assault is concealed carry is legal in the United States and in VA, it just isn't allowed on LU property. LU has the right to say it is or isn't allowed on their property. they don't have to right to allow sexual assault on campus

Your version of logic is not like our earth logic. I was not speaking literally of legalizing DUI or sexual assault. I was making an analogy with regard to something that is disallowed despite the fact that it happens fairly often in society. The fact that "people break the rules and have guns on campus all the time" is no reason to start allowing it.

all i said was i support it, then someone else started talking about crime rates so i was just commenting. that isn't my whole argument. my argument is it is legal everywhere else so it should be legal on campus. the right to bear arms is still in the constitution last time i checked, so its just a matter of interpretation. i interpret that to mean i have the right to carry a weapon. i think bear in this sense means possess/carry

[RagingTireFire]

Portapost, you took most of my statements out of context.

As I said, I've been in a number of college environments and I know exactly how much alcohol flowed through those areas. I would imagine the average general blood alcohol content to be somewhat lower at LU but I certainly wouldn't expect it to be zero. However, away from campus people are not necessarily thrown together as they are in a dormitory or classroom situation.

As for the second statement, pay close attention to what I said.

if this idea were to be implemented at some schools, I think you would see a sharp rise in firearm-related suicides on college campuses

I was speaking of your cause in general, not specifically in the context of Liberty. (See above.) Furthermore, I doubt that you can back up that statement regarding schools in Utah. Utah already has one of the higher suicide rates in the country -- particularly among young people -- so I doubt that you can produce a statistic that says having guns available hasn't a contributing factor.

My quick-draw comment was in response to a poster who thought that having a gun on him would keep him from being robbed, despite the fact that campus crime statistics show zero instances of an on-campus mugging at LU in the last several years and the fact that there's no way that any person could unholster their weapon -- particularly if it's concealed -- and be prepared to use it on an attacker if said attacker were not at least 18-20 feet away. You accuse me and others of using generalizations and hypotheticals to oppose concealed carry on campus and yet you and the other supporters are doing the exact same thing. The only difference is that we have actual life experience whereas you -- based on your last statemtent -- seem to have nothing more than a childish Seung-Hui Cho/Dirty Harry fantasy.

And, JDub, last I checked the 2nd Amendment isn't in the Liberty Way.

[asforme]

...

I think you would see a sharp rise in firearm-related suicides on college campuses

The only difference is that we have actual life experience whereas you -- based on your last statemtent -- seem to have nothing more than a childish Seung-Hui Cho/Dirty Harry fantasy.

How many suicides have you witnessed in your "live experience" that you have been able to somehow attribute to the availability of a gun? There are no statistics that indicate that the availability of guns increase suicide rates. You are not basing anything on "live experiences" you are basing your justification of removing another persons right to protect themselves on blind emotion. When every court in the country has ruled that the police have no responsibility to protect a citizen, removing that citizens tools to protect themselves is a potential death sentence just as it was for all those who chose to obey the firearm prohibition at VT. Explain to me how BYU with 3x more residential students than we have managed to have ZERO sex offenses even with all those evil guns around, yet LU had 4? How would you feel if it was your daughter who was violated on campus while obeying the rules and stripping herself of the right to self-defense? Responsible students should not be forced to put themselves in danger because of your emotions.

[newandimproved]

as with LU...I am sure there are far more sex offenses that go unreported because of girls that are ashamed at LU...but I see what you are saying...

I still can not, in my mind, see how it would be wise to allow guns on residential halls where 100 people could potentially get their hands on it. Sure, you may be smart and keep it on you at all times...except for those time you are in the shower or other such things...what is going to stop somebody from breaking into your safe and getting your gun??? I know it is not entirely likely...but that is the kind of thing that could happen. And you know who would be held liable?? and the world we are living in it would not be a stretch to say a court would say the school would be partly liable....Off campus is completely different...but its the fact that there could be guns on residential halls that worries me a bit...

[asforme]

There is a point that students living on campus have unique concerns, but they are not insurmountable. One potential solution is that LU could require than any student wishing to keep a firearm in their dorm pay for professional installation of a safe bolted to the floor where the firearm is to be kept when it is not on the student's person. If the dorm rooms cannot spare room for a small handgun safe, a bank of safes could be installed in each dorm building. Or a third solution, though not convenient for the students, is to have LUPD provide safe storage for weapons when students are not carrying them. I wish I could find housing demographics for LU, but generally college students living on campus are mostly under 21. And the percentage of people over 21 who actually get concealed carry permits and own a gun to carry is near 1%. According to students for concealed carry, the estimated number of guns that would even be in dorm rooms at a large university of 50,000 students would only be 10-20. Even if there are logistics that need to be worked out for students living on campus, there is no excuse for prohibiting commuter students, faculty and staff members from carrying on campus.

[Fumblerooskies]

As a professor...I do not like the idea of allowing this one bit. It is just asking for trouble.

[asforme]

As a professor...I do not like the idea of allowing this one bit. It is just asking for trouble.

Can you elaborate as to why? There seems to be a misconception that changing the rules on LU would allow people permission to carry who are not already doing so elsewhere. You shop for groceries, go to movies and eat at restaurants next to these same students who are already legally carrying their concealed handguns and you never know about it. What gives you any reason to be nervous about it in class?

[Baldspot]

Other then common sense, I'd say vicarious liability. The moment the school changes the policy, they just become liable for the actions of every nut case on campus. I worked in Student Development way to many years to even remotely consider this possibility.

Specially installed safes in rooms. Another bad idea. Picture this: Hello CFAWer and parents. Just put your bags on that box. What is it? Don't worry, its just where this room packs heat.

[Fumblerooskies]

As a professor...I do not like the idea of allowing this one bit. It is just asking for trouble.

Can you elaborate as to why? There seems to be a misconception that changing the rules on LU would allow people permission to carry who are not already doing so elsewhere. You shop for groceries, go to movies and eat at restaurants next to these same students who are already legally carrying their concealed handguns and you never know about it. What gives you any reason to be nervous about it in class?

My UNIFORMED knee-jerk reaction.

We have A LOT of kids on campus who have not seen the real world...and these are 18-22 kids who's age group are generally not the best decision makers. Say someone has a LEGAL gun on campus...and some whacked out student gets in the dorm room and takes it. Given what went on at Tech (I know...bad analogy as they do not allow guns on campus)...why even ENCOURAGE it from happening.

In my opinion, allowing this just makes it TOO DARNED EASY to get one's hands on a weapon. Hopefully, more faculty will speak up on this and the Chancellor will encourage the board to do the right thing.

[RagingTireFire]

How many suicides have you witnessed in your "live experience" that you have been able to somehow attribute to the availability of a gun?

That's two questions.

How many suicides have I personally witnessed? Thankfully, zero.

How many firearm-related suicides can be at least partially attributable to having a gun available? That's simple. All of them.

[asforme]

these are 18-22 kids who's age group are generally not the best decision makers.

In Virginia you must be 21 to get a concealed carry permit.

Say someone has a LEGAL gun on campus...and some whacked out student gets in the dorm room and takes it.

There are definately special condierations that must be made for students living on campus. Requirements for secure storage either in a safe or with LUPD for example could be possible. Regardless, the logistics of how this can be made possible for students living on campus does not justify the prohibition against state licensed commuter students, faculty and staff from carrying concealed weapons.

Given what went on at Tech (I know...bad analogy as they do not allow guns on campus)...why even ENCOURAGE it from happening.

It is a bad analogy, what happened at tech was enabled by the fact that only the killer was armed. There is no guarantee what the outcome could have been if they allowed concealed carry, but when a psycho with no concern for school rules is on an entire campus where they know all their victims will be unarmed, there is only one possible outcome, a massachre.

In my opinion, allowing this just makes it TOO DARNED EASY to get one's hands on a weapon.

As demonstrated at VT, and even better at Norther Illinois University (in a state where gun laws are much more strict and the state has no concealed carry licenses) that people who want to do harm have no trouble getting guns. The only people this rule affects is those who respect the rules.

Hopefully, more faculty will speak up on this and the Chancellor will encourage the board to do the right thing.

We can only hope. Right now students, faculty and staff are being put at risk by the advertisement that currently at Liberty university, nobody is armed. Anyone who would like to take out some fundamentalist Christians can see LU as an easy target where the will meet little or no resistance.

[Schfourteenteen]

I have no unbiased opinion, and that happens when someone wants your head and has a gun.

Sorry

[Cider Jim]

I hand back papers and exams, sometimes, with failing grades on them: I would rather hand these back to students who are UNARMED in my classroom.

[Fumblerooskies]

asforme...
...our dearly departed friend sums up my fears quite nicely:

I've always suspected that our ratio of whiners/morons to normal students was a little higher than at other schools. And by morons I mean "lack of common sense + extremely sheltered life up until now".

All it is going to take is one of "those types" in a moment of crisis getting their hands on a gun that someone forgot to secure for all heck to break loose. Why chance it? This has NOTHING to do with "the right to bear arms."

[asforme]

I hand back papers and exams, sometimes, with failing grades on them: I would rather hand these back to students who are UNARMED in my classroom.

You honestly believe a student who would shoot you over a failed exam would care that guns are against the rules right now? Your suggestion is not based on any relevant fact. This is the same kind of paranoia that they said before Virginia got Concealed carry permits in 1995. We were warned that a traffic accident would turn into a homicide because an angry party would have a gun. We were told that simple arguments would turn into shootouts. But the fact remains that it hasn't happened. Concealed carry permit holders are the most law abiding group of people in the state. The voluntarily put themselves through a three ring circus of burocracy for the ability to keep themselves and their families safe. They know that a small slipup with regards to firearms laws and they will loose their permit. These kind of people are not the people you need to be worrying about loosing control. Odds are that anyone who would have a tendency to blow up, already has at some point, and the extensive background check to get a CHP disqualifies anyone with any history of domestic violence. The people you need to worry about are the people who will carry their guns without concern for the rules. And responsible people like you and I are currently left defenseless against such criminals.

asforme...
...our dearly departed friend sums up my fears quite nicely:

I've always suspected that our ratio of whiners/morons to normal students was a little higher than at other schools. And by morons I mean "lack of common sense + extremely sheltered life up until now".

All it is going to take is one of "those types" in a moment of crisis getting their hands on a gun that someone forgot to secure for all heck to break loose. Why chance it? This has NOTHING to do with "the right to bear arms."

All it is going to take is for one of "those types" to go a few miles off campus to buy or easily illegally obtain a gun and bring it back to campus. If they don't care about laws against stealing then a weak rule against weapons on campus is not going to stop them. But it will stop you and I from doing anything but becoming a victim.

[Schfourteenteen]

We were warned that a traffic accident would turn into a homicide......the fact remains that it hasn't happened.

.....in 13 years, not once?

Pretty good

[Fumblerooskies]

I hand back papers and exams, sometimes, with failing grades on them: I would rather hand these back to students who are UNARMED in my classroom.

You honestly believe a student who would shoot you over a failed exam would care that guns are against the rules right now? Your suggestion is not based on any relevant fact. This is the same kind of paranoia that they said before Virginia got Concealed carry permits in 1995. We were warned that a traffic accident would turn into a homicide because an angry party would have a gun. We were told that simple arguments would turn into shootouts. But the fact remains that it hasn't happened. Concealed carry permit holders are the most law abiding group of people in the state. The voluntarily put themselves through a three ring circus of burocracy for the ability to keep themselves and their families safe. They know that a small slipup with regards to firearms laws and they will loose their permit. These kind of people are not the people you need to be worrying about loosing control. Odds are that anyone who would have a tendency to blow up, already has at some point, and the extensive background check to get a CHP disqualifies anyone with any history of domestic violence. The people you need to worry about are the people who will carry their guns without concern for the rules. And responsible people like you and I are currently left defenseless against such criminals.

asforme...
...our dearly departed friend sums up my fears quite nicely:

I've always suspected that our ratio of whiners/morons to normal students was a little higher than at other schools. And by morons I mean "lack of common sense + extremely sheltered life up until now".

All it is going to take is one of "those types" in a moment of crisis getting their hands on a gun that someone forgot to secure for all heck to break loose. Why chance it? This has NOTHING to do with "the right to bear arms."

All it is going to take is for one of "those types" to go a few miles off campus to buy or easily illegally obtain a gun and bring it back to campus. If they don't care about laws against stealing then a weak rule against weapons on campus is not going to stop them. But it will stop you and I from doing anything but becoming a victim.

Good points..but it is the POSSIBLE ease of availability that worries me.

[portapost]

Portapost, you took most of my statements out of context.

Of course.

As I said, I've been in a number of college environments and I know exactly how much alcohol flowed through those areas. I would imagine the average general blood alcohol content to be somewhat lower at LU but I certainly wouldn't expect it to be zero. However, away from campus people are not necessarily thrown together as they are in a dormitory or classroom situation.

To be clear, I don't advocate in-dorm storage of guns. I would agree with you on that point, but mainly because of the increased risk of theft, not because I think a college kid will freak out about finals, or a breakup, and then shoot people up because of it. If college kids are really that unstable, we'd see more people getting in their cars and angrily driving around killing pedestrians.

Furthermore, I doubt that you can back up that statement regarding schools in Utah. Utah already has one of the higher suicide rates in the country -- particularly among young people -- so I doubt that you can produce a statistic that says having guns available hasn't a contributing factor.

While I was in Utah last year, I noticed an abundance of signs for drug rehab centers, specifically for meth addicts. Some of them were quite disheartening, directed mainly at mothers ("Another blatant sign of a Utah Meth User" with a picture of a diaper bag). You're trying to imply that because Utah has fewer gun control laws, the suicide rate has increased, which is simply not true. On page 64 of the PDF at www.gunfacts.info, it shows that availability of guns, or the increase of guns, does not increase suicides.

Here are some other sites that talk about Utah's drug problem, which is just a symptom of a much bigger problem (which isn't related to the availability or existence of guns, at all)
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/1,51 ... 93,00.html
http://media.www.slccglobelink.com/medi ... 4036.shtml
http://www.endmethnow.org/

My quick-draw comment was in response to a poster who thought that having a gun on him would keep him from being robbed, despite the fact that campus crime statistics show zero instances of an on-campus mugging at LU in the last several years

And since there have been zero instances in the last several years, that definitely means there will be zero instances in the future. Now, if that's the case, I'm all for it. I hope our current state of 0 muggings continues until the end of time.

and the fact that there's no way that any person could unholster their weapon -- particularly if it's concealed -- and be prepared to use it on an attacker if said attacker were not at least 18-20 feet away.

With proper training and practice, a concealed firearm can be unholstered very quickly. But you would like to disarm people because they "might" not be able to use it, and therefore, would never need it.

You accuse me and others of using generalizations and hypotheticals to oppose concealed carry on campus and yet you and the other supporters are doing the exact same thing.

Hypothetically, one would be able to better defend against an attack if armed with a firearm. I'm okay with that hypothetical, because more often then not, it's proven true, unlike your fear-based assertions.

The only difference is that we have actual life experience whereas you -- based on your last statemtent -- seem to have nothing more than a childish Seung-Hui Cho/Dirty Harry fantasy.

It's not a matter of having a dirty harry fantasy. And how dare you imply that I would ever wish another incident similar to VT's occur, ever again. I take owning, carrying, and operating a firearm very seriously. I simply find your assertions (slow draw times, crazy college kids, suicide rate increases due to gun availability) absurd, and largely based on a fear that you've created for yourself, not facts about the issue.

I'm not sure what kind of life experience you're referring to--hopefully it was good for you.

[Schfourteenteen]

Question for portapost.

By making that name, do you really want us to pee on you?

[ToTheLeft]

Yet another case of "If you don't get it now, you never will".

Putting guns into a low crime situation provides little to no positives for people who look at it as a safety issue and potential danger and hazard.

To people who just love staying hugged up against the right hand side wall and pushing the right wing NRA agenda on everything to their left, no argument is convincing or sound enough to sway them from their idea. (And I know I'm stereotyping here, this is as much of a fact as a generality could ever be.)

I am starting to feel like the gun agenda is really just to prove that the NRA/Right wing is not to be messed with, and that as "Amurricans" we have the "Right to pack heat"... errr...bear arms wherever we darn well please. Because as long as I have my gun on my hip, no one is gonna rob/rape/otherwise harm me or anyone around me!

unless they have a gun, too, and a faster/better shot, but let's not think about the ramifications of untrained civilians with guns prancing around like wanna-be cops, particularly COLLEGE STUDENTS with hormones, stress, pressures, and all kinds of other variables.

If you really stopped and thought about things for a second, and dropped the NRA handbook and thought about the reason you are so adamant for this, it has less and less to do with safety, and more and more to do with just putting another check mark on the list of places where we can use our "Right to Pack Heat".

[Realist]

You guys are actually seriously considering this????

I'm all about the right to own guns, but just using some common sense would tell you not to allow them on a college campus.

I've seen enough guys almost dead from fireworks, potato guns, dry ice bombs, and other assorted home made explosives on a college campus to know better than to put a loaded gun around loaded kids.

I realize LU isn't exactly party school central, but come on.