A Sea Of Red

For today's Convo, the speaker is Senator Ted Cruz. This will be best Convo of semester.

I know this may not be a popular opinion and to be honest I don't care, haha. Convo needs more Biblical preaching like Voddie Baucham, John MacArthur, Steve Lawson, Alistair Begg, Sinclair Ferguson, Tom Ascol, H.B. Charles Jr. and those like them. That is the greatest need in convo for LU students is more of that.

FlamesHighontheTide wrote: ↑October 30th, 2020, 9:55 am I know this may not be a popular opinion and to be honest I don't care, haha. Convo needs more Biblical preaching like Voddie Baucham, John MacArthur, Steve Lawson, Alistair Begg, Sinclair Ferguson, Tom Ascol, H.B. Charles Jr. and those like them. That is the greatest need in convo for LU students is more of that.

So I take it you're not a fan of Gabe Lyons, Levi Lusko, Lysa TerKeurst, David Platt, or Andy Stanley?

FlamesHighontheTide wrote: ↑October 30th, 2020, 9:55 am I know this may not be a popular opinion and to be honest I don't care, haha. Convo needs more Biblical preaching like Voddie Baucham, John MacArthur, Steve Lawson, Alistair Begg, Sinclair Ferguson, Tom Ascol, H.B. Charles Jr. and those like them. That is the greatest need in convo for LU students is more of that.

Voddie Baucham

Jonathan Carone wrote: ↑October 30th, 2020, 10:07 am

FlamesHighontheTide wrote: ↑October 30th, 2020, 9:55 am I know this may not be a popular opinion and to be honest I don't care, haha. Convo needs more Biblical preaching like Voddie Baucham, John MacArthur, Steve Lawson, Alistair Begg, Sinclair Ferguson, Tom Ascol, H.B. Charles Jr. and those like them. That is the greatest need in convo for LU students is more of that.

So I take it you're not a fan of Gabe Lyons, Levi Lusko, Lysa TerKeurst, David Platt, or Andy Stanley?

I listed some of the best expositional preachers out there in America today and I could have added more. Furthermore, Andy Stanley is on record saying that preaching verse by verse is cheating and not relevant today, so not a fan of Andy Stanley. Levi Lusko preached at Joel Osteen's church and supports Osteen, no offense but nothing more needs to be said about Levi Lusko.

I've never heard of any of those guys, except Stanley, and I would not walk across the street to hear him.

FlamesHighontheTide wrote: ↑October 30th, 2020, 10:36 am

Jonathan Carone wrote: ↑October 30th, 2020, 10:07 am

FlamesHighontheTide wrote: ↑October 30th, 2020, 9:55 am I know this may not be a popular opinion and to be honest I don't care, haha. Convo needs more Biblical preaching like Voddie Baucham, John MacArthur, Steve Lawson, Alistair Begg, Sinclair Ferguson, Tom Ascol, H.B. Charles Jr. and those like them. That is the greatest need in convo for LU students is more of that.

So I take it you're not a fan of Gabe Lyons, Levi Lusko, Lysa TerKeurst, David Platt, or Andy Stanley?

I listed some of the best expositional preachers out there in America today and I could have added more. Furthermore, Andy Stanley is on record saying that preaching verse by verse is cheating and not relevant today, so not a fan of Andy Stanley. Levi Lusko preached at Joel Osteen's church and supports Osteen, no offense but nothing more needs to be said about Levi Lusko.

And yet John MacArthur makes your list?

ballcoach15 wrote: ↑October 30th, 2020, 10:56 am I've never heard of any of those guys, except Stanley, and I would not walk across the street to hear him.

I'm wondering if Ballcoach is confusing Andy Stanley with Charles Stanley.

ballcoach15 wrote: ↑October 30th, 2020, 10:56 am I've never heard of any of those guys, except Stanley, and I would not walk across the street to hear him.

You would love Voddie. I posted a couple of his youtube videos in another thread. If you didn't watch them you missed out. He preaches from the same Bible Doc used

stokesjokes wrote: ↑October 30th, 2020, 11:03 am

FlamesHighontheTide wrote: ↑October 30th, 2020, 10:36 am

Jonathan Carone wrote: ↑October 30th, 2020, 10:07 am

So I take it you're not a fan of Gabe Lyons, Levi Lusko, Lysa TerKeurst, David Platt, or Andy Stanley?

I listed some of the best expositional preachers out there in America today and I could have added more. Furthermore, Andy Stanley is on record saying that preaching verse by verse is cheating and not relevant today, so not a fan of Andy Stanley. Levi Lusko preached at Joel Osteen's church and supports Osteen, no offense but nothing more needs to be said about Levi Lusko.

And yet John MacArthur makes your list?

Why would he not make the list?

Cider Jim wrote: ↑October 30th, 2020, 12:29 pm

ballcoach15 wrote: ↑October 30th, 2020, 10:56 am I've never heard of any of those guys, except Stanley, and I would not walk across the street to hear him.

I'm wondering if Ballcoach is confusing Andy Stanley with Charles Stanley.

No, I like Charles Stanley. I was planning on visiting Charles' church in Atlanta once on my way from Alabama, but he wasn't preaching that Sunday, so I went up to First Baptist Spartanburg.

Cider Jim wrote: ↑October 30th, 2020, 12:29 pm

ballcoach15 wrote: ↑October 30th, 2020, 10:56 am I've never heard of any of those guys, except Stanley, and I would not walk across the street to hear him.

I'm wondering if Ballcoach is confusing Andy Stanley with Charles Stanley.

Sometimes the apple falls a little farther from the tree.

FlamesHighontheTide wrote: ↑October 30th, 2020, 1:22 pm

stokesjokes wrote: ↑October 30th, 2020, 11:03 am

FlamesHighontheTide wrote: ↑October 30th, 2020, 10:36 am

I listed some of the best expositional preachers out there in America today and I could have added more. Furthermore, Andy Stanley is on record saying that preaching verse by verse is cheating and not relevant today, so not a fan of Andy Stanley. Levi Lusko preached at Joel Osteen's church and supports Osteen, no offense but nothing more needs to be said about Levi Lusko.

And yet John MacArthur makes your list?

Why would he not make the list?

Maybe I'm overblowing this, but I thought the Beth Moore incident was pretty revealing of his character. Since then, I've looked more deeply into his history and he has been very unkind and uncharitable to others who don't toe his line of doctrine.
I've come to see his brand of hyper-specific mandates on doctrinal issues as a form of new gnosticism- it's making the exact right knowledge/doctrine salvific instead of relationship with Christ and ultimately the fruit that should come with that.

flamehunter wrote: ↑October 30th, 2020, 1:57 pm

Cider Jim wrote: ↑October 30th, 2020, 12:29 pm

ballcoach15 wrote: ↑October 30th, 2020, 10:56 am I've never heard of any of those guys, except Stanley, and I would not walk across the street to hear him.

I'm wondering if Ballcoach is confusing Andy Stanley with Charles Stanley.

Sometimes the apple falls a little farther from the tree.

Easy to do when dad is an absent father and husband.

I think what we're seeing in the younger generation is an overcorrection. Take someone like Andy Stanley- he sees his father, great preacher and firm in convictions and doctrine, but he knows very personally his father's failings. He overcorrects and values relationships, kindness, and love, while being wishy-washy on finer doctrinal points. He's trying to avoid the failings of his father. And for my current season in my walk, if I'm going to err, it's going to be on the side that Andy's erring on.

stokesjokes wrote: ↑October 30th, 2020, 2:05 pm

FlamesHighontheTide wrote: ↑October 30th, 2020, 1:22 pm

stokesjokes wrote: ↑October 30th, 2020, 11:03 am

And yet John MacArthur makes your list?

Why would he not make the list?

Maybe I'm overblowing this, but I thought the Beth Moore incident was pretty revealing of his character. Since then, I've looked more deeply into his history and he has been very unkind and uncharitable to others who don't toe his line of doctrine.
I've come to see his brand of hyper-specific mandates on doctrinal issues as a form of new gnosticism- it's making the exact right knowledge/doctrine salvific instead of relationship with Christ and ultimately the fruit that should come with that.

Brother, you are over-blowing this, as gnosticism is a form of heresy that is against the Gospel and if you listen to any sermon of John MacArthur's you will find the Gospel there with clarity as with the call for repentance. Furthermore, MacArthur preached a sermon on the topic of women's preachers/pastors and apologized for his comment towards Beth Moore. I would also like to hear why you mean by hyper-specific mandates? My question is this, is it wrong for someone to have a strong conviction on things? Biblically, some of his strong stances or mandates every Christian should run with. Why? because they come straight from the Scriptures. Examples are women preachers/pastors are completely unbiblical and in direct disobedience to God's word.

I was unaware of his apology to Moore, I will have to look for that.
Gnosticism was based on the belief that the goal of Christianity was to attain "secret knowledge," that's why I make the comparison, as my impression of MacArthur is that he values this "right knowledge" over some other fundamental things, like loving neighbors and enemies. I believe Christians should have strong convictions on things we might call "essentials." For someone like MacArthur, he has made every doctrine "essential," leaving no room for others to interpret or read anything differently from him. For instance, did you know that you have to hold premillienial beliefs about Jesus' return to go to his college?

And this is not entirely on topic, but I will challenge the assertion that women pastors are "completely unbiblical and in direct disobedience to God's word." God's word isn't so straightforward on the issue. For instance, Junia is listed as an apostle. Paul speaks of Phoebe delivering his letter to the Romans, which most likely means she would have been entrusted to read it in its entirety in front of the church. So, for me, this is something that would fall into the "non-essential" bucket, while MacArthur would imply that someone who believes women can be pastors wouldn't be a "true" Christian.

FlamesHighontheTide wrote: ↑October 30th, 2020, 2:39 pm Examples are women preachers/pastors are completely unbiblical and in direct disobedience to God's word.

This is not true. We have an example of Priscilla both teaching and pastoring (shepherding) to Apollos (Acts 18). We also have biblical examples of women being prophets, deacons, and apostles. The only office of the church we don't have a biblical example of is that of elder (overseer).

Jonathan Carone wrote: ↑October 30th, 2020, 3:00 pm We also have biblical examples of women being prophets, deacons, and apostles. The only office of the church we don't have a biblical example of is that of elder (overseer).

"Apostles" is and overstatement and highly debatable. First, at most it was only one (so drop the plural). Second, the name isn't clear as to gender. Third, the phrase translated in Romans 16 could mean that the person (Junia or Junias) is "esteemed BY the apostles" or "esteemed AS an apostle." Those debates are significant and ongoing. I would not make doctrine on a single passage which is difficult to translate.

The notion of women as deacons is MUCH stronger (and a position I hold).

Does anybody on here have a seminary degree besides Super Jon and Purple?

Jonathan Carone wrote: ↑October 30th, 2020, 3:00 pm

FlamesHighontheTide wrote: ↑October 30th, 2020, 2:39 pm Examples are women preachers/pastors are completely unbiblical and in direct disobedience to God's word.

This is not true. We have an example of Priscilla both teaching and pastoring (shepherding) to Apollos (Acts 18). We also have biblical examples of women being prophets, deacons, and apostles. The only office of the church we don't have a biblical example of is that of elder (overseer).

Wasn't it because the men of the church were not taking those positions and Paul mentions this?

Women should not be preachers. The Bible will back me up on this.

cruzan_flame13 wrote: ↑October 30th, 2020, 4:12 pm

Jonathan Carone wrote: ↑October 30th, 2020, 3:00 pm

FlamesHighontheTide wrote: ↑October 30th, 2020, 2:39 pm Examples are women preachers/pastors are completely unbiblical and in direct disobedience to God's word.

This is not true. We have an example of Priscilla both teaching and pastoring (shepherding) to Apollos (Acts 18). We also have biblical examples of women being prophets, deacons, and apostles. The only office of the church we don't have a biblical example of is that of elder (overseer).

Wasn't it because the men of the church were not taking those positions and Paul mentions this?

No, he doesn’t mention this. It’s been put forth as speculation because people are trying to reconcile the things Paul says about women in church vs. what’s described in practice.

alabama24 wrote: ↑October 30th, 2020, 3:53 pm

Jonathan Carone wrote: ↑October 30th, 2020, 3:00 pm We also have biblical examples of women being prophets, deacons, and apostles. The only office of the church we don't have a biblical example of is that of elder (overseer).

"Apostles" is and overstatement and highly debatable. First, at most it was only one (so drop the plural). Second, the name isn't clear as to gender. Third, the phrase translated in Romans 16 could mean that the person (Junia or Junias) is "esteemed BY the apostles" or "esteemed AS an apostle." Those debates are significant and ongoing. I would not make doctrine on a single passage which is difficult to translate.

The notion of women as deacons is MUCH stronger (and a position I hold).

It’s Junia, the feminine, in all the earliest copies. You could probably guess why someone would want to change it.

But, regardless, this is just an example of how 2 people can take the Bible just as seriously and come away with 2 different conclusions on a matter. Someone like MacArthur is entirely too dismissive of people with different viewpoints, and is often also uncharitable and unkind towards them.

Cider Jim wrote: ↑October 30th, 2020, 4:06 pm Does anybody on here have a seminary degree besides Super Jon and Purple?

I do.

ballcoach15 wrote: ↑October 30th, 2020, 4:32 pm Women should not be preachers. The Bible will back me up on this.

1 Corinthians 14:34