[Liberty Freelance]

BJWilliams,

I've praised the school for their missions on my blog. I don't only criticize. These are just important issues and the critical points that I passionately believe Liberty needs to change.

I'm sorry if you hate it that I've come around only when I criticize Liberty. But I'm not going to just leave issues alone because some people decide I'm "negative," or whatever. If you want to debate all the good things about Liberty, great. I'm not going to stop you. But exclusively praising the status quo isn't going to get us very far. These uncomfortable debates are necessary for Liberty to improve. So I'm not going to shy away from them. You shouldn't either.

[Liberty Freelance]

Is the donor going to fund the no doubt expensive upkeep of a ski slope? Anyway, that's just an example, and it's for another debate. My point's that not many people critically question authority around here. Everyone's jumped all over me from my first comment on here, before I ever even started questioning authority. So why are you questioning my motives? With all the asinine things people say on here, you've singled me out. Why?

[BJWilliams]

I try not to my friend. I have my own criticisms of the school at times (the stories I could tell), but I also know that for all the areas that need improvement (as would be the case at any human institution), time should also be taken to praise the good things the school does. DO I think this situation could have turned out a LOT better...well yeah...but I also believe that there are two sides to every story and so I, like the rest of the membership at large of this board, waited to get as Paul Harvey (God rest his soul) would say, "the REST...of the story". When that did come out, a lot of people, though they felt it could have been handled better, changed their tune because they got all the evidence from both sides, thought critically over the evidence, and it changed their conclusions about the events.

The problem many on this board have with you from what I gather is that you only seem to come to this particular section and talk about how LU is suppressing free speech and debate and the free exchange of ideas and you havent posted a single thing anywhere else that can be found. I like a good discussion as much as the next person, but what I dont like is someone who only comes around when they see clouds and tries to seed them to make them rain if you will

[4everfsu]

SuperJon,

Every time I've gotten on here, you defend the school. You quit the debate before you would ever agree with me. You defended, of all things, a ski slope on a college campus. You don't expect me to take your point seriously do you? You're of course free to defend whatever you want. But that you're willing to defend something so obnoxious as a campus ski slope, demonstrates how much you're willing to defer to Liberty's administration.

Sure, I was impressed (and surprised) with the first few pages of this thread when I read them last week. But most people on here ultimately came around. I had little doubt this is how it would end up. Most people here give LU's administration the benefit of the doubt on most things, but does anyone ever give me the benefit of the doubt? You can't be serious . . .

You say SJ "you quit the debate before you would ever agree with me." I ask why would he continue a debate with you if he disagrees with you. That makes no sense in your originial line. I would not continue a debate with someone if I disagree with that person and he or she does not get the ideal I am never going to agree with him or her.
I think you do like to hear yourself talk. You probably have a good conversation going on at times.

[Schfourteenteen]

SuperJon,

Every time I've gotten on here, you defend the school.

Credibility = Lost.

And the ski slope was purchased by the donor. Yes the operating expenditure probably go on the school's tab, but if the slope is making money as well then it doesnt matter. The slope, being the only one of its kind, becomes a recruiting tool for the school, even if it doesnt make money. We got good publicity from it and people who never planned on checking out Liberty are now on the mountain.

[RagingTireFire]

Everyone's jumped all over me from my first comment on here, before I ever even started questioning authority. So why are you questioning my motives? With all the asinine things people say on here, you've singled me out. Why?

Aaaaand here comes the whining.

[matshark]

SuperJon,

Every time I've gotten on here, you defend the school. You quit the debate before you would ever agree with me. You defended, of all things, a ski slope on a college campus. You don't expect me to take your point seriously do you? You're of course free to defend whatever you want. But that you're willing to defend something so obnoxious as a campus ski slope, demonstrates how much you're willing to defer to Liberty's administration.

Sure, I was impressed (and surprised) with the first few pages of this thread when I read them last week. But most people on here ultimately came around. I had little doubt this is how it would end up. Most people here give LU's administration the benefit of the doubt on most things, but does anyone ever give me the benefit of the doubt? You can't be serious . . .

Because you only get on here to (wrongly) criticize the school. perhaps if you had something to legitimately criticize, other people would be with you. the board never agrees in entirety on ANYTHING... except for when it comes to you. perhaps that should tell you something.

further, what's wrong with a campus ski slope. vermont university used to have a ski slope on campus that was free of charge to students until it became too expensive to run the tow lift. (how do i know this? a friend of mine that went to school there told me about it quite enthusiastically)

what do you mean by most people ultimately came around? your darn right we came around after we found out that the allegations were LIES! go hold on to your precious falsehoods and pretend that university is wrong on this. must be nice living in a dreamworld...

[JK37]

I would have no problem as a university administrator giving money to fund an organization that I disagreed with. It's the students' money. They should, democratically, decide what to do with it.

I could not agree more with you. And this is a key concession you've made. You say they should decide DEMOCRATICALLY. Excellent! Let's put it to a vote. Would you be in favor of the administration offering a vote to the student body on whether or not to use the students' money (as you call it) to support the Democratic club?

What do you think the vote would show?

My guess is that the vote would overwhelmingly be in opposition of such support. Why? Because an overwhelming majority of the students at the University have chosen to be here in full knowledge of the University's philosophy.

This is why it IS important that there are other options availble to those aspiring to receive a college education. In choosing to enroll at Liberty, they have empowered the administration to direct their educational experience within certain perameters. It is solely the responsibility of the enrollee to be aware of that direction.

And in the full awareness of that direction, by enrolling, the student democratically accepts that direction. If at any point, they come to disagree with it, they are free to depart.

[JK37]

Another great example is a marriage. Freelance, would you marry a woman (or man, it's your personal choice, I'm not taking it away from you), and spend the majority of your energy trying to change things about your spouse you do not like?

This goes for things prior to the wedding, and after it.

[4everfsu]

https://www.liberty.edu/index.cfm?PID=18495&MID=8374

So now because of the lies that were spread by the Democratic club LU is going to have to pay to defend itself againist the call for the IRS to investigate the tax expemtion of our university.

[4everfsu]

Also at issue during the meeting were statements printed in the national media claiming that Hine had said one could not be a Democrat and a Christian.

“Dr. Hine reminded the staff sponsor that it was actually her who threw the sarcastic statement (‘You can’t be a Christian and a Democrat?’) at him a week ago, to which Dr. Hine at that time immediately responded by saying it would be ridiculous to imply such or to believe that one could not be a Democrat and a Christian,” Falwell said. “Dr. Hine has been subjected to ridicule in the national press for a statement he did not make and, in fact, refuted when the staff sponsor suggested it. The staff sponsor did not challenge Dr. Hine’s recollection of their conversation one week before.”

https://www.liberty.edu/index.cfm?PID=18495&MID=8375

[Liberty Freelance]

Well, I can't respond to all that. But the essence seems to be, "you are negative, and we don't like that." That, of course, doesn't speak to the substance of the issues. I challenge the school when it publicly and needlessly embarrasses itself. All it has to do is make a statement saying that student organizations do not comport with the school's mission. Most of you defer to the school's authority. No one's explained why. It doesn't look as if we'll resolve our differences. You trust authority more than I do. You trust a few administrators over the rule of law. I support freedom of speech and expression. I trust the truth to bubble up from a free market of ideas. And I'll criticize the school every time it violates that proven system.

For the record, I've praised the school on my blog. So you should read that before you assert that you can't find anywhere I've praised the school.

And no, I wouldn't criticize my wife. Fortunately, I'm married to neither Liberty nor the U.S. government, so I'll criticize both when they don't live up to their potential.

Finally, I originally came on here a few weeks ago and commented about a basketball player transferring. All manner of people immediately rained down criticism on me. So don't act now as if your criticism is based on a legitimate rationale.

[Liberty Freelance]

That's my point. You're getting your news from liberty.edu and accepting it at face value. It was obvious to me from the beginning that Childress was summarizing the meeting. You're not going to get very far defending Hine. He's complicit in revoking funding from the campus Democrats. Regardless of whether he made that statement or insinuated it is beside the point. The point is that Liberty has chilled free speech. It's terrified of opposing points of view. And Falwell and Hine splitting hairs over a collateral statement he made to the press is preposterous. People's inability to focus on the issue is ridiculous. It's difficult to carry on a legitimate discussion.

[Liberty Freelance]

4everfsu:

You can't be serious. LU is paying to defend itself because it revoked funding from a student organization that represents one of the two major political parties in our country. You can't pin this on what you dub "lies." First, they weren't lies. And second, you're proving my point that you give deference to the school. All evidence points to the school botching the situation from the beginning. Yet you're somehow blaming this on the campus Democrats. And I'm the one on here getting called out for having an agenda?

[Liberty Freelance]

How many people on here work for Liberty?

[4everfsu]

And you get your news from the Lynchburg N&A, etc. I bet when you first read about LU droping the club you took it at face value and believed it. Please

[4everfsu]

Of course you cannot see the forest because of the trees. And what would it matter to you if anyone on here works at LU?

[Liberty Freelance]

Yes, imagine that: I look for an independent news outlet. That's pretty ridiculous of me. I mean, I should go straight to the source. I'll start getting my foreign-policy news from the State Department, too.

[4everfsu]

And they gave the reason why the revoked the club and would have done it to any club that did not follow the school beliefs of marriage and abortion. So yes you do have an agenda. Of course it must be hard to admit, but it shows

[Liberty Freelance]

4everfsu:

I've proposed a way the school could allow the club and remain true to its mission. You haven't answered it. So you can label me as having an agenda, but it doesn't mean I have an agenda. I've proposed practical steps the school can take. So what's my agenda? I'm giving solutions. You're calling me names. This is hardly a fair fight.

[Liberty Freelance]

Oh, and how many people on here are employed by Liberty? It would be relevant to know who has conflicts of interest.

[4everfsu]

True to its mission(LU) is to be for marriage between a man and a woman and pro life. The LU democratic club did not hold up their part of their bargain.
Lets see LU and Mark Hines has been called names since this incident and I have not heard him or the school crying. So stop whining.

[Sly Fox]

Since you asked, there are a number of LU employees who are on here. That should tell you that the school has come a long way in permitting employees to speak in a forum operated independently.

But none of the moderators of the Lynchburg Life forum are LU employees.

[4everfsu]

Since you wanted to ask who was LU employees on here, maybe we should ask how many people are democrats.

[Liberty Freelance]

4everfsu:

You're ignoring that the campus Dems were probably coerced into including that in their constitution in the first place. And that's really the issue.

This situation is unbelievable. And that there is anyone on here still defending the university is a disgrace. Does no one around there have an activist bone in your body? Where are the professors? The school is making a mockery of what it means to be an academic institution. Students should be protesting. The school is humiliating the students and the graduates. Revoking funding from the group is indefensible. There are simple ways around it that I've already proposed. You guys need to wake up.