This is the definitive place to discuss everything that makes life on & off campus so unique in Central Virginia.

Moderators: jcmanson, Sly Fox, BuryYourDuke

By jimflamesfan
Registration Days Posts
#389219
As far as voting for Romney, I think Al Mohler has a pretty good take on it, I don't think it's wrong for a Christian to vote for a Mormon. I also do not think it is a sin for a person to vote for Barak Obama. Voting for a presidential candidate doesn't mean that you are endorsing their religious beliefs. Here is a quote from Al Mohler's article...I'll put the link at the bottom.

"Christians, along with the general public, are not well served by political leaders who, though identifying as Christians, are incompetent. The Reformer Martin Luther is often quoted as saying that he would rather be ruled by a competent Turk (Muslim) than an incompetent Christian. We cannot prove that Luther actually made the statement, but it well summarizes an important Christian wisdom.

Furthermore, Christians in other lands and in other political contexts have had to think through these questions, sometimes under urgent and difficult circumstances. Christian citizens of Turkey, for example, must choose among Muslim candidates and parties when voting. Voters in many western states in the United States often have to choose among Mormon candidates. They vote for a Mormon or they do not vote at all.

Furthermore, we must be honest and acknowledge that there are non-Christians or non-evangelicals who share far more of our worldview and policy concerns than some others who identify as Christians. The stewardship of our vote demands that we support those candidates who most clearly and consistently share our worldview and combine these commitments with the competence to serve both faithfully and well.

In a fallen world, political questions are always contextual questions. With fear and trembling, matched with faithful biblical commitments, Christians must support and vote for candidates who will most faithfully and effectively meet these expectations. We must choose between real flesh-and-blood candidates, and not theoretical constructs.

Given all this, we would expect that, under normal circumstances, Mormon voters will support candidates who most fully represent their worldview and concerns. Given the distribution of Mormons in the United States, this means that many Mormons (who would probably prefer to vote for a Mormon candidate), often vote for an evangelical or a Roman Catholic candidate. The reverse is also true. Evangelicals in many parts of the United States vote eagerly for Roman Catholic candidates with whom we share so many policy concerns, and this is true also in reverse. In an increasingly diverse America, we will be faced with very different choices than we have faced in the past."

http://www.albertmohler.com/2011/10/10/ ... -thinking/
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By TallyW
Registration Days Posts
#389220
Jim,
You cherry-picked that article. You did provide the link but you took a balanced article and made it fit your mold. Boo.

The entire first half talks about the differences. The last two paragraphs he leaves open ended saying that he's not suggesting anything.

Lastly, I would take Mohler's advice more seriously if we lived in Turkey. All of the panic situations he puts us in as voters do not exist in this country. Romney got the benefit of a divided Christian vote nearly the entire time. With a Christian vote centered on one candidate we would not be having this discussion but because the Mormon discussion was completely avoided for fear of upsetting liberals... now we're here... with a Mormon.

If the evangelicals show up for Romney... the party will take notice in the future. If the evangelicals do not show up for Romney, the party will take notice. We don't have to just mindlessly vote for someone who has spent their entire lives diminishing the name of our Savior.

The Name of Jesus is everything to us as Christians. How can anyone vote for a man who has spent his entire life trying to change the perception of that name in the eyes of humanity?

You guys are acting like this man has just checked a box on a form and it was the wrong box. No. He has actively tried to undercut every claim Liberty University and Thomas Road have ever made about who Jesus Christ is and yet we are prepared to elevate HIS NAME to the highest and most powerful office in this land?

The church of the Republican has gotten out of control. We don't worship a party or a set of political preferences or a budgetary policy... we worship King Jesus. There should be consequences to people asking to lead from among us. That's what an election is in this country... with our vote we are selecting a leader from among us to lead us. We are not helpless saps who have to select whomever is thrown before us.

I am floored that this is even up for consideration among Christians.
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By Kricket
Registration Days Posts
#389222
How powerful does someone have to be in their job before they must be a Christian? Can my mechanic be a Mormon? How about my lawyer? Doctor? Congressman? Senator? President? Because this could get really awkward when I have to ask my mechanic a bunch of theological questions along with a request for a quote on my timing belt being changed...
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By TallyW
Registration Days Posts
#389224
You could start a new thread if you'd like.

Right now we're having a discussion about the leader of the free world.
By ATrain
Registration Days Posts
#389226
The Bible makes it clear there is a difference between spiritual and political leaders (see: ancient Kingdom of Israel, verse that states "Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's..." - and we know Caesar was anything but Christian at that time). Romney is a political leader, and as long as he's able to lead our country economically, militarily, etc...then I am ok with him being president. Plus, at least Romney didn't leave his wife when she was critically ill for a younger, hotter woman (see: 2007 Commencement Speaker Newt Gingrich).
User avatar
By TallyW
Registration Days Posts
#389227
The context for your quote is that Caesar was a dictator. Romney is not. Slight difference. Romney is asking for our vote. Is my vote rendered unto Romney by default or to God. Is my vote Romney's vote or God's vote?

Does God have an opinion as to whether I should assist a man to become the most powerful man in the world when that same man has actively spent his entire life defaming the name of Jesus as Lord? God so loved me that he sent Jesus to die for me. I so love God that I willfully vote for a man who denies Christ?

There is one thing to be ruled by a dictator and another to be ruled by a vote. Who we vote for says everything about us. We need to stop simply giving our vote away. In this case we have an opportunity to say "No. You cannot bash Christ for your entire life and then get my vote when you want to become the most powerful man in the world. I do not want the most powerful man on this earth to be one who thinks my Savior is a lie and my faith is apostate.
By jimflamesfan
Registration Days Posts
#389228
I promise I am not Kricket...although whoever you are we think so much alike it's scary...I even used mechanic as an example.

I did cherry pick the article...but it's especially true this year with the election we are facing, right here in the U.S. That's why it was written in 2011...it's an article relevant to this election.
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By Kricket
Registration Days Posts
#389230
jimflamesfan wrote:I promise I am not Kricket...although whoever you are we think so much alike it's scary...I even used mechanic as an example.
Weird having someone make the claim that they aren't you, but glad someone else has similar thoughts. Makes me feel less crazy, unless I actually am you and have been typing your posts without knowing it. In that case I'd be more crazy... :lol:
By jimflamesfan
Registration Days Posts
#389231
I really think voting often comes under the area of Christian freedom. It's like what we choose to wear. The Bible gives us guidlines on how to dress...i.e. modestly, etc. But it doesn't tell us specifically that we should wear blue jeans and a tshirt or khakis and a blue shirt. I don't think God ordained one political worldview as Biblical, and another as heretical. We have a responsibility to promote our Christian values and worldview with our vote...but there is room for freedom choosing candidates. TallyW is basically making the argument that it is a sin to vote for Romney because by voting for a person that denies Christ, we are not being a good steward of our God given vote. If this is true, then a person that believes like David Barton could make the argument that Barak Obama is the most biblically hostile president and to not vote for Romney is bad stewardship and thus a sin, if one believes he is the only one with a chance to win over Obama in this cycle...but other people more concerned with helping the poor might think Barak Obama is the Godly choice...then all of a sudden different churches are calling different people sinners based on how they vote...it divides the church body over a secondary issue. When King Uzziah (the people of Judah's choice for king) died...Isaiah reminded the people that God was still on His throne in Heaven.
By ATrain
Registration Days Posts
#389232
Whether Caesar was a dictator or elected, it is clear the BIble establishes a divide between government and church. Is Romney going to oppress the people of God? No. Will Romney support Israel? Probably moreso than Obama. Will Romney do a much better job of turning America's economy around? As long as the gridlock in Congress gets broken, yes. The job of President of the United States is not to be a spiritual leader, but rather a military, economic and political leader. Therefore, I have no problems with anyone who wants to vote for Romney. He's not asking to be your pastor.
By SuperJon
Registration Days Posts
#389233
ATrain wrote:Whether Caesar was a dictator or elected, it is clear the BIble establishes a divide between government and church.
Your logic is iffy at best. The Bible talks about being obedient and living under the rule of someone who is already in office. It says nothing about electing someone into office.

If Romney gets elected, then everyone should respect and obey his authority. Christians aren't doing a good job right now with Obama in that regard.

With that being said, there is no biblical mandate that says we have to blindly support him before he is elected and to say there is one is cherry picking verses to help your point.
By ATrain
Registration Days Posts
#389234
SuperJon wrote:
ATrain wrote:Whether Caesar was a dictator or elected, it is clear the BIble establishes a divide between government and church.
Your logic is iffy at best. The Bible talks about being obedient and living under the rule of someone who is already in office. It says nothing about electing someone into office.

If Romney gets elected, then everyone should respect and obey his authority. Christians aren't doing a good job right now with Obama in that regard.

With that being said, there is no biblical mandate that says we have to blindly support him before he is elected and to say there is one is cherry picking verses to help your point.
Your interpretation here is iffy at best. I'm not saying Christians should BLINDLY vote for him, I'm just saying I think God clearly establishes a difference between spiritual governors and political governors.
By logic
#389235
TallyW wrote: The church of the Republican has gotten out of control. We don't worship a party or a set of political preferences or a budgetary policy... we worship King Jesus. There should be consequences to people asking to lead from among us. That's what an election is in this country... with our vote we are selecting a leader from among us to lead us. We are not helpless saps who have to select whomever is thrown before us.

I am floored that this is even up for consideration among Christians.
\


Tally...hypothetical...you have two choices when voting for President this November. What do you choose?

1. Democrat who professes to be a Christian?
2. Conservative atheist?

I would vote for the atheist every single time, because his/her POLITICAL values line up more closely with mine, and THAT is what we are voting on, (or SHOULD BE) voting on, for a President.

You are correct sir, the Church of Republican HAS gotten out of control - people like you would rather keep Obama in the White House than vote in someone who is more conservative simply because of religious beliefs. How can you not separate policy and religion?

IF "hardcore" Christians keep Romney out of the White House in November, don't say I didn't tell you so come 2015 if we make it that far.
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By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#389244
TallyW wrote:You could start a new thread if you'd like.

Right now we're having a discussion about the leader of the free world.
I disagree. The point is very valid. Where do you draw the line? If I work for a company owned by a Mormon, am I not helping him make money which in turn he gives to his church which in turn attempts to wipe Chtistianity as we know it off the face of the earth? If I frequent a business owned by Mormons the same principle applies.
It is apparent that you will also not be voting this election.
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By TH Spangler
Registration Days Posts
#389266
Nothing new here ..... I'm looking forward to hearing Luis Palau and Governor Romney.
Liberty has two Commencement speakers each year. Long ago, most universities ceased their practice of including a Baccalaureate service during their Commencement weekend, but we have insisted on keeping this service as a demonstration of our Christian commitment to the Great Commission and the Great Commandment.

This year our Baccalaureate speaker is Luis Palau. Dr. Palau is an evangelist who has preached the Gospel to a billion people. Palau is often considered second only to Billy Graham in his influence for the Gospel, and, as is our tradition, he will be clearly delivering the Gospel at Baccalaureate.

For twenty-five years Liberty has traditionally had leaders from the worlds of politics, business, and entertainment speak during the Commencement ceremony on Saturday. Most of these leaders have not traditionally shared Liberty’s doctrinal convictions.
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By bigsmooth
Registration Days Posts
#389271
I will probably be labeled a "bad Christian" for my thoughts but here it goes. President Obama says he is a Christian and attends Church sometimes. Mitt is obviously a Mormon, so by the far right logic you should vote for Obama!...NOT. that is the problem with far right conservatives is that if a candidates views do not line up with them 100% then they will not vote for them. I'm sorry but social issues are not a concern for me. The economy, jobs, and energy are. I will leave the social issues to parents, preachers, teachers who are Christians because that is where it should start. Would i want to have a Christian as President? absoultely. Do you actually think this is lost on Mitt?? I fully believe he will get a Christian as his running mate and have Christians in his cabinet. Mitt is a moral guy, but he is a Mormon. big deal! I just hope that Liberty students and alumni will not act a fool and protest.This will just put more light on the beliefs of outsiders who think liberty "hates" non-believers. Commencement is not a sermon and was never intended to be. It is a challenge to graduates for the future. What is wrong with having a mormon deliver that address?
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By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#389279
SMOOTH=Devil Worshipping Heathen :D



Welcome to the club!
By ATrain
Registration Days Posts
#389281
bigsmooth wrote:I will probably be labeled a "bad Christian" for my thoughts but here it goes. President Obama says he is a Christian and attends Church sometimes. Mitt is obviously a Mormon, so by the far right logic you should vote for Obama!...NOT. that is the problem with far right conservatives is that if a candidates views do not line up with them 100% then they will not vote for them. I'm sorry but social issues are not a concern for me. The economy, jobs, and energy are. I will leave the social issues to parents, preachers, teachers who are Christians because that is where it should start. Would i want to have a Christian as President? absoultely. Do you actually think this is lost on Mitt?? I fully believe he will get a Christian as his running mate and have Christians in his cabinet. Mitt is a moral guy, but he is a Mormon. big deal! I just hope that Liberty students and alumni will not act a fool and protest.This will just put more light on the beliefs of outsiders who think liberty "hates" non-believers. Commencement is not a sermon and was never intended to be. It is a challenge to graduates for the future. What is wrong with having a mormon deliver that address?
Well said :clapping :clapping :clapping
By logic
#389285
bigsmooth wrote:I will probably be labeled a "bad Christian" for my thoughts but here it goes. President Obama says he is a Christian and attends Church sometimes. Mitt is obviously a Mormon, so by the far right logic you should vote for Obama!...NOT. that is the problem with far right conservatives is that if a candidates views do not line up with them 100% then they will not vote for them. I'm sorry but social issues are not a concern for me. The economy, jobs, and energy are. I will leave the social issues to parents, preachers, teachers who are Christians because that is where it should start. Would i want to have a Christian as President? absoultely. Do you actually think this is lost on Mitt?? I fully believe he will get a Christian as his running mate and have Christians in his cabinet. Mitt is a moral guy, but he is a Mormon. big deal! I just hope that Liberty students and alumni will not act a fool and protest.This will just put more light on the beliefs of outsiders who think liberty "hates" non-believers. Commencement is not a sermon and was never intended to be. It is a challenge to graduates for the future. What is wrong with having a mormon deliver that address?

No no... + 10!!!

This is what I was trying to say, and this is what TallyW seems to not comprehend. This isn't about religion, its about POLICY. Again...I would vote ATHEIST EVERY SINGLE TIME if he/she were a conservative and the alternative were a left leaning semi-socialist who supports the crazy people in Portland, Oregon, that want three bathrooms now instead of two...one male, one female, one transgender or questioning....for the people that can't figure out if they're male or female today. THREE bathrooms. This is where the left is going folks and it is a scary place.

TallyW - you're basically saying that instead of helping to vote Obama OUT, you will either vote for Ron Paul or similar or not vote at all. This is a lost vote for Romney and you are in fact, AIDING THE LEFT by doing so. How about that?

What was the quote from Boondock Saints? Fearing the indifference of good men more than evil men? By not voting for Romney or not voting at all you are in fact voting leftist!
By jmdickens
Registration Days Posts
#389314
bigsmooth wrote:I will probably be labeled a "bad Christian" for my thoughts but here it goes. President Obama says he is a Christian and attends Church sometimes. Mitt is obviously a Mormon, so by the far right logic you should vote for Obama!...NOT. that is the problem with far right conservatives is that if a candidates views do not line up with them 100% then they will not vote for them. I'm sorry but social issues are not a concern for me. The economy, jobs, and energy are. I will leave the social issues to parents, preachers, teachers who are Christians because that is where it should start. Would i want to have a Christian as President? absoultely. Do you actually think this is lost on Mitt?? I fully believe he will get a Christian as his running mate and have Christians in his cabinet. Mitt is a moral guy, but he is a Mormon. big deal! I just hope that Liberty students and alumni will not act a fool and protest.This will just put more light on the beliefs of outsiders who think liberty "hates" non-believers. Commencement is not a sermon and was never intended to be. It is a challenge to graduates for the future. What is wrong with having a mormon deliver that address?
LOVE THIS!!!! and Smooth as well :D
By ATrain
Registration Days Posts
#389408
This article has a list of commencement speakers for colleges in Virginia, and apparently we're not the only one with commencement speaker issues. Quite frankly I am glad Liberty has enough draw and appeal that we can get someone other than another college's president:

http://www2.timesdispatch.com/news/news ... r-1876941/
By Hold My Own
Registration Days Posts
#389411
VCU got JC Watts....would love to hear that
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