[El Scorcho]

The point I'm trying to make is that Liberty DOES censor a lot of things that go on around the campus. I believe you made some remark earlier about don't make it sound like everyone working at Liberty is an idiot.
THAT is what I was talking about. The fact that while a good number of people working there aren't idiots, there's more people working there than there should be that have their heads buried in the sand. And the thing is, it's true whether you want to admit it or not El Scorcho.
If it wasn't true, they would loosen up their death grip on a lot of things that get produced and published at that school.

I responded to a post that said nothing logical ever happens at Liberty, which I believe makes the employees of the university out to be imbecilic. I see now that you somehow think this supposed absence of logic is somehow tied into the production and publishing aspects of the school. I also see that because you claim something is true means that I am quite obviously in denial while you are the ultimate purveyor of truth.

So, if there are people here with their heads buried in the sand, let's start calling them out. If you don't think someone is doing their job well, let's have some names and some specific examples. Man up.

[truedrewdawg87]

Look man, I'm not going to pretend that I cared enough during my time at Liberty to memorize every name or even most of the name's of the faculty and administration. And now that I've graduated and have a job and responsibilites, I def. don't keep up with who runs things there. If that's not legit enough for you then I'm sorry. All I know is that when I worked at the champion as a writer and later as assistant sports editor from 04 to fall of 05, we had to send EVERY page off to the administration to be approved. More often that not, our stuff got sliced and diced pretty hard. They cut up just about everything. I remember writing a column when it was announced Ken Karcher was done coaching at Liberty. I wrote about how he struggled on the field, but he did a good job of turning out quality young men, and how he always did what he could as a Christian to represent the university well. In my humble opinion, I thought I did a pretty decent job.
Even that, got sent back with an even more 'look at how great Liberty is spin on it.' My sucking up to one of the worst football coaches I've ever seen, a man who invented ways to lose games, wasn't enough. This is only one SMALL example of what I'm talking about. Liberty HAS to twist and spin everything. They view, or at least they did when I was there, the champion as nothing more than a glorified Liberty PR machine, and that's so wrong. The champion, 90.9 and any other resource on that campus should prepare students to be successful Christians in the real world, not be one giant billboard for Liberty. Should students help promote the school? Sure, after all, Liberty did let them in. But, turning students into nothing more than employees in one giant publicity campaign is wrong.
So, writing a letter to the champion about student activities scheduling events around athletic events is a great idea. Just not at Liberty.

[LUconn]

I don't see why it's wrong. As "contraversial" as this school can be or inspire in people, they just make sure they look good in their own newspaper. I guess they don't have to do that, but they surely have every right to.

[El Scorcho]

Look man, I'm not going to pretend that I cared enough during my time at Liberty to memorize every name or even most of the name's of the faculty and administration. And now that I've graduated and have a job and responsibilites, I def. don't keep up with who runs things there. If that's not legit enough for you then I'm sorry.

Don't be sorry. You don't have to memorize anything or even keep up with anything. All you have to do is go to the LU website if you want to find out who's in charge of something. It's not difficult. I don't think it makes your claims illegitimate, but I have a real problem with people tossing out "the administration" or the ever-ambiguous "they/them". The fact is that there aren't that many people working here and if there's something you or someone else doesn't like, it's pretty easy to find out who's doing it. As an alum, if you're unhappy with how things were when you were here or how they are now, you should take the initiative and use your position as potential donor to do something about it.

All I know is that when I worked at the champion as a writer and later as assistant sports editor from 04 to fall of 05, we had to send EVERY page off to the administration to be approved. More often that not, our stuff got sliced and diced pretty hard. They cut up just about everything. I remember writing a column when it was announced Ken Karcher was done coaching at Liberty. I wrote about how he struggled on the field, but he did a good job of turning out quality young men, and how he always did what he could as a Christian to represent the university well. In my humble opinion, I thought I did a pretty decent job.
Even that, got sent back with an even more 'look at how great Liberty is spin on it.' My sucking up to one of the worst football coaches I've ever seen, a man who invented ways to lose games, wasn't enough. This is only one SMALL example of what I'm talking about. Liberty HAS to twist and spin everything. They view, or at least they did when I was there, the champion as nothing more than a glorified Liberty PR machine, and that's so wrong. The champion, 90.9 and any other resource on that campus should prepare students to be successful Christians in the real world, not be one giant billboard for Liberty. Should students help promote the school? Sure, after all, Liberty did let them in. But, turning students into nothing more than employees in one giant publicity campaign is wrong.
So, writing a letter to the champion about student activities scheduling events around athletic events is a great idea. Just not at Liberty.

I hear what you're saying, but The Champion is not a fully student run and operated newspaper. It never will be, and that being the case, the school has full editorial control. I'm not saying it makes the school any more likable when they do things like that, but it's certainly their prerogative. If someone really cared that much about having a "free press" newspaper about LU, they'd stick around in Lynchburg after they graduated and start one. Students wouldn't be able to participate, but fresh alums could. To succeed it would have to be not only legitimate, but legitimately good. But hey, if they had the advertising funds it would only take a few Coms alums to stick around and "intern" for a year every year to keep thing going. It'd be a nice tradition for the journalism students and it'd really "stick it to the man".

[ATrain]

As a former (and somewhat current) Champion writer, I would just like to say that while LU has the right to have full editorial control, it does seem to go against the First Amendment that people here claim to hold oh-so-dear.

When everyone got fired, my article about the people who got axed (Hubbard, Karcher, Grahm, Park) had to be approved by the highest office in the mansion. I made sure to just stick to the facts and records, got a quote from Falwell, wrote the article and prayed that it would hold up in the mansion. Thankfully, it did.

[LUconn]

it does seem to go against the First Amendment that people here claim to hold oh-so-dear.

I think you need to reread your copy of the constitution.

[El Scorcho]

As a former (and somewhat current) Champion writer, I would just like to say that while LU has the right to have full editorial control, it does seem to go against the First Amendment that people here claim to hold oh-so-dear.

The First Amendment is irrelevant in the context of a non-profit organization handling it's internal affairs. Completely different organizational structure and business. Freedom of the press hasn't been deemed to hold the same value or relevancy here. So while it may seem to fly in the spirit of America, this isn't America. This is SPARTA! Oh wait. Sorry. I got sidetracked. This is Liberty.

[ToTheLeft]

it does seem to go against the First Amendment that people here claim to hold oh-so-dear.

I think you need to reread your copy of the constitution.

If GWB walked in and told you you weren't allowed to talk bad about a coach who was fired, or a police officer came in and said STOP THE PRESSES THIS IS NOT GOING OUT TO THE PUBLIC! then that would infringe upon your rights.

[Rocketfan]

As a former (and somewhat current) Champion writer, I would just like to say that while LU has the right to have full editorial control, it does seem to go against the First Amendment that people here claim to hold oh-so-dear.

The First Amendment is irrelevant in the context of a non-profit organization handling it's internal affairs. Completely different organizational structure and business. Freedom of the press hasn't been deemed to hold the same value or relevancy here. So while it may seem to fly in the spirit of America, this isn't America. This is SPARTA! Oh wait. Sorry. I got sidetracked. This is Liberty.

When i was at the champion we had a meeting with Jerry himself about this....it had nothing to do with our non-profit status according to him. It had everything to do with it being a private university which he led and made the rules, bottomline. It was his choose to make sure every word of the champion was scrutinized before print and i think his own secretary was one of the people who had to sign off on it as well.

[El Scorcho]

As a former (and somewhat current) Champion writer, I would just like to say that while LU has the right to have full editorial control, it does seem to go against the First Amendment that people here claim to hold oh-so-dear.

The First Amendment is irrelevant in the context of a non-profit organization handling it's internal affairs. Completely different organizational structure and business. Freedom of the press hasn't been deemed to hold the same value or relevancy here. So while it may seem to fly in the spirit of America, this isn't America. This is SPARTA! Oh wait. Sorry. I got sidetracked. This is Liberty.

When i was at the champion we had a meeting with Jerry himself about this....it had nothing to do with our non-profit status according to him. It had everything to do with it being a private university which he led and made the rules, bottomline. It was his choose to make sure every word of the champion was scrutinized before print and i think his own secretary was one of the people who had to sign off on it as well.

I didn't mean that our non-profit status specifically had anything to do with it. In fact, you could replace "non-profit" with "private" in my post. I was just trying to make the point that we're not run by the U.S. government, so the 1st doesn't apply.

I don't think Kathy Rusk ever had to sign off on the Champion. Maybe if Jerry didn't get a chance to look at it. I know the current Chancellor's assistant doesn't do that.

[Ed Dantes]

They don't care at all what athletics is doing. All they care about is themselves. It's completely obvious and anyone who says different is flat-out wrong.

What: Christmas Movie Night
When: 8 PM Saturday December 1st
Where: Schilling Center

If Student Activities would try to promote the "activities" at sporting events we might be able to get some kids there.

That's ri-donk-ulous. It's beyond ridiculous. If you're in charge of student activities, the first thing you should do is mark the home basketball and football games on a calendar. If you don't do that, you're an idiot and should be transferred to another job.

[El Scorcho]

That's ri-donk-ulous. It's beyond ridiculous. If you're in charge of student activities, the first thing you should do is mark the home basketball and football games on a calendar. If you don't do that, you're an idiot and should be transferred to another job.

Director of Campus Programming- Chris Misiano (http://www.liberty.edu/studentaffairs/i ... ?PID=12686)
434.592.3148 - cjmisiano@liberty.edu

[thepostman]

oh the things in my brain right now............

[ATrain]

The First Amendment is irrelevant in the context of a non-profit organization handling it's internal affairs. Completely different organizational structure and business. Freedom of the press hasn't been deemed to hold the same value or relevancy here. So while it may seem to fly in the spirit of America, this isn't America. This is SPARTA! Oh wait. Sorry. I got sidetracked. This is Liberty.

When i was at the champion we had a meeting with Jerry himself about this....it had nothing to do with our non-profit status according to him. It had everything to do with it being a private university which he led and made the rules, bottomline. It was his choose to make sure every word of the champion was scrutinized before print and i think his own secretary was one of the people who had to sign off on it as well.

I didn't mean that our non-profit status specifically had anything to do with it. In fact, you could replace "non-profit" with "private" in my post. I was just trying to make the point that we're not run by the U.S. government, so the 1st doesn't apply.

I don't think Kathy Rusk ever had to sign off on the Champion. Maybe if Jerry didn't get a chance to look at it. I know the current Chancellor's assistant doesn't do that.

I know the First DOESN'T apply here. because we are private..but it seems if we preach it and make a fuss over it, then why not practice it and NOT censor responsible journalism, even if it criticizes the university. Also, if Jerry didn't sign off on it then it was normally Sharon Hartless (sp?).

[Rocketfan]

When i was at the champion we had a meeting with Jerry himself about this....it had nothing to do with our non-profit status according to him. It had everything to do with it being a private university which he led and made the rules, bottomline. It was his choose to make sure every word of the champion was scrutinized before print and i think his own secretary was one of the people who had to sign off on it as well.

I didn't mean that our non-profit status specifically had anything to do with it. In fact, you could replace "non-profit" with "private" in my post. I was just trying to make the point that we're not run by the U.S. government, so the 1st doesn't apply.

I don't think Kathy Rusk ever had to sign off on the Champion. Maybe if Jerry didn't get a chance to look at it. I know the current Chancellor's assistant doesn't do that.

I know the First DOESN'T apply here. because we are private..but it seems if we preach it and make a fuss over it, then why not practice it and NOT censor responsible journalism, even if it criticizes the university. Also, if Jerry didn't sign off on it then it was normally Sharon Hartless (sp?).

HARTLESS, thats it, and ohh how we loved that last name when things got cut!

[El Scorcho]

Also, if Jerry didn't sign off on it then it was normally Sharon Hartless (sp?).

Sharon Hartless is a Vice President. (And she's awesome.) She was not Jerry's secretary/assistant. She was, at one point, the President/EVP's assistant but that was a while ago.

[ALUmnus]

Sorcho's right, if you want your voice to be heard, put up some coin and start your own publication. It's LU's paper, not a forum for misguided, immature journalism students to vent about their problems with the school. Without oversight, the champion would become the same trash that passes itself for journalism in other school newspapers, and one of Jerry's aim was to prevent LU from becoming like other schools in some aspects that he saw were negative and self-destructive. And honestly I agree with him. If you want to talk negatively about the school, write to the paper, blog, start a publication (or zeen, remember those?), get a writing job, post on a message board, nobody's stopping you. The way people are still bitter about it makes me glad that their stuff wasn't published, doesn't sound like it would have been worth the read.

[Ed Dantes]

Also, if Jerry didn't sign off on it then it was normally Sharon Hartless (sp?).

Sharon Hartless is a Vice President. (And she's awesome.) She was not Jerry's secretary/assistant. She was, at one point, the President/EVP's assistant but that was a while ago.

Yeah, when Rocketfan, myself, and Kel were working for the paper, Hartless was President Borek's secretary. Now she's a VP. Bet ya she's got some polaroids...

[Ed Dantes]

Sorcho's right, if you want your voice to be heard, put up some coin and start your own publication. It's LU's paper, not a forum for misguided, immature journalism students to vent about their problems with the school. Without oversight, the champion would become the same trash that passes itself for journalism in other school newspapers, and one of Jerry's aim was to prevent LU from becoming like other schools in some aspects that he saw were negative and self-destructive. And honestly I agree with him. If you want to talk negatively about the school, write to the paper, blog, start a publication (or zeen, remember those?), get a writing job, post on a message board, nobody's stopping you. The way people are still bitter about it makes me glad that their stuff wasn't published, doesn't sound like it would have been worth the read.

Here's the thing -- is that there have been other publications. Liberty just shuts them down. There were three or four "The Truth about LU" websites my senior year (done by those who wanted the truth about the Eric Lovett scandal out there) and LU shut them all down. Anything dealing with Liberty was shut down immediately.

I'm honestly surprised that an open forum such as FlameFans hasn't drawn the ire of the powers-that-be.

Oh wait, there was that "Liberty Couples" thread.

Welcome to the beginning of the end, my friends.

[Ed Dantes]

Sorcho's right, if you want your voice to be heard, put up some coin and start your own publication. It's LU's paper, not a forum for misguided, immature journalism students to vent about their problems with the school. Without oversight, the champion would become the same trash that passes itself for journalism in other school newspapers, and one of Jerry's aim was to prevent LU from becoming like other schools in some aspects that he saw were negative and self-destructive. And honestly I agree with him. If you want to talk negatively about the school, write to the paper, blog, start a publication (or zeen, remember those?), get a writing job, post on a message board, nobody's stopping you. The way people are still bitter about it makes me glad that their stuff wasn't published, doesn't sound like it would have been worth the read.

Sorry to milk this topic -- here's the thing though -- it's not like we were talking negatively about the school in the paper.

Censorship extended to ridiculous topics -- a photo from a student life concert was cut because one of the (male) performers had earrings. An article about drug use among pro athletes was spiked because the powers-that-be didn't want to insinuate that any of our athletes were using drugs.

An article -- written by me -- PRAISING the school for making a change was spiked by everyone except President Borek (and so it ran). It's not like we were immature jerks trying to bite the hand that fed us. We were trying to pass ourselves off as journalists, and we were being prevented in that endeavor.

Furthermore -- if you go through Liberty you won't see any shrines to me (that "Best Sports Story in Virginia" award I got is missing for some reason). But seriously -- I poured my blood and sweat into that school. And I know that no one really cares. I really do.

But still -- this "go find another forum to complain" thing kinda irks me. I agree that people who want to bash Liberty should basically cram it. But let's take a history lesson here...

Before I came, some kids hijacked the student radio station. Locked the doors, too... and they bashed LU (specifically, the basketball team). Yeah, they got kicked out -- and it took LU a long time before they let anyone use any LU facility to voice any sort of opinion.

Thanks to people like Dave Kurtz, Liberty got a talk show back on the air. Thanks to people like Rocketfan and myself, we made it relevant again. We laid the foundation for things like GMTM hosting Coach Rocco at Applebee's. That was us.

And I'm not trying to pat myself on the back, I'm just trying to state that we're not complaining about not getting the right to complain. We're complaining because we had to fight, tooth-and-nail, to get Liberty University in a position to be the best it could be.

[ATrain]

We also got grief b/c one of the volleyball photos that ran from the W&M tourney a couple years ago showed midriff.

[Ed Dantes]

Can we bump this to a different forum?

[kentuckywildcats]

while i dont agree nor disagree with the deicison to place this event during a men's basketball game, i pose this:

I assume there are students at LU who don't like sports or basketball, so why shouldn't they have the option of being able to attend a student activities sponsored event while a basketball game is occurring? is the student activities board for all the students, not just ones who would go to a men's basketball game? also, if a student who actually likes basketball or sports in general attends a christmas movie night over a ball game, they probably would be the type of fan that just sits there and does nothing to begin with, so i don't see how that would effect the atmosphere of the game much...

[jcmanson]

while i dont agree nor disagree with the deicison to place this event during a men's basketball game, i pose this:

I assume there are students at LU who don't like sports or basketball, so why shouldn't they have the option of being able to attend a student activities sponsored event while a basketball game is occurring? is the student activities board for all the students, not just ones who would go to a men's basketball game? also, if a student who actually likes basketball or sports in general attends a christmas movie night over a ball game, they probably would be the type of fan that just sits there and does nothing to begin with, so i don't see how that would effect the atmosphere of the game much...

With our students, the battle is just getting them there. Once they get there they will eventually make noise. Well maybe not.

[El Scorcho]

while i dont agree nor disagree with the deicison to place this event during a men's basketball game, i pose this:

I assume there are students at LU who don't like sports or basketball, so why shouldn't they have the option of being able to attend a student activities sponsored event while a basketball game is occurring? is the student activities board for all the students, not just ones who would go to a men's basketball game? also, if a student who actually likes basketball or sports in general attends a christmas movie night over a ball game, they probably would be the type of fan that just sits there and does nothing to begin with, so i don't see how that would effect the atmosphere of the game much...

You ask great questions. I don't think it's so simple as making a choice between one or the other, though, since college is a social thing. It's often about what your group of friends and/or significant other want to do. For me, it just seems like it would be easy to not schedule things on days when there are athletic competitions. That way they wouldn't have to compete and there wouldn't be any discussion.