This is the definitive place to discuss everything that makes life on & off campus so unique in Central Virginia.

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By PAmedic
Registration Days Posts
#130753
SCORCHO: dead on with this one. And now that you have MY support- you'll probably do a 180 :mrgreen:

Thinking back on the mentality in MY day- it seems many of the students fit 3 catagories:
  • 1. Bible school students sent here by mommy and daddy to stay outta trouble/get that MRS degree: dorks

    2. Kids sent here that hated it and tried to party as much as possible without getting busted or expelled :oops:

    3. Dumb jocks
I could be way off- but I think the idea at the time was to keep the doors open and get the numbers up, so academics truly DID take a back seat. It takes a long time and a whole generation of students and faculty to erase that mentality. I do see a real progression here, though- the highly regarded Nursing school (and hopefully soon- a paramedic program) is testiment to that. I DO, however , think that the powers tha be should start looking to emphasize/establish a PhD program.
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By Fumblerooskies
Registration Days Posts
#130761
PhD in Psychology=DONE
EdD in Education=DONE

Anything else on your mind, Medic?
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By El Scorcho
Registration Days Posts
#130763
Fumblerooskies wrote:PhD in Psychology=DONE
EdD in Education=DONE

Anything else on your mind, Medic?
We gots ourselves a D.Min. too. Can even do 'er on the Interweb!
By phoenix
Registration Days Posts
#130779
I think a lot of the problem is the background the school has -- the Bible college that's trying to "grow up to be a university" kind of thing. I saw it when I was there in the 80s, and I think it's something that he administration is working on. I wonder, though, how tough is it for our science faculty to get published in peer-reviewed journals just because of where they teach.

I also think it's part of a larger problem in evangelical circles -- what Mark Noll called the "scandal of the evangelical mind." (which is an outstanding book, BTW -- highly recommended).
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By Fumblerooskies
Registration Days Posts
#130790
Ooooooo. Great question, Phoenix...I have no idea.
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By PAmedic
Registration Days Posts
#130792
Fumblerooskies wrote:PhD in Psychology=DONE
EdD in Education=DONE

Anything else on your mind, Medic?
my point, precisely.

Back in the day- I think 85% of Frosh/Sophs figured themselves to be "education" majors. A good percentage of them never finished. Safe to say that's not where the scientific community is looking to find the next Nobel Laureate.

No offense to education majors- I was one. Point taken? :lol:

The original question pertained more to our PERCEPTION of LU as an institution of higher learning- I think many would agree that graduate (esp PhD) programs should be expanded and become more diverse. Letely, the focus has been the athletic programs, so that's where you've see the growth. I have no issue with that but it may be some of the reason why the perception for SOME is what it is.
By Baldspot
Registration Days Posts
#130793
I think its what you make of it. From my perspective, I'm very haqppy with the communications degree I received in the 80s. Though I went in a different direction after leaving, my schooling at LU gave me the basis to complete a post graduate program and a couple industry designations (the most recent included an all expenses paid graduation in Hawaii :D and involved professionals considered at the top of my field). Currently, peers on my team at work have JDs, MBAs, Ivy league credentials etc. (and no one there has heard of Samford either).

LU's open enrollment program in the 1980s did bring in some students who were not ready for the college experience, especially Liberty's, but I do not think that reflects on the educational opportunities the school gave myself. I especially appreciate learning how to question the status quo from whatever academic background they might be. This, I attribute directly to Dr Falwell.
By scuzdriver
Registration Days Posts
#130878
So to be "intelligent" you have to have an education?
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By El Scorcho
Registration Days Posts
#130883
scuzdriver wrote:So to be "intelligent" you have to have an education?
Who are you posing this question to?
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By PeterParker
Registration Days Posts
#131060
phoenix wrote:I also think it's part of a larger problem in evangelical circles -- what Mark Noll called the "scandal of the evangelical mind." (which is an outstanding book, BTW -- highly recommended).
The push/pull of the Faith/Reason dichotomy is as old as time. In literature, notably, it came to an apex during the Victorian period. IMO, christians are better served when they strive to find the perfect balance, that optimal intersection between the two through careful thought, analysis and critique. The two do not have to be and, quite frankly should not be, mutually exclusive. Yet, the fringes on either side of the debate advocate the further polarization of the two, either by being too smugly erudite on the one intellectual elitist extreme and by being too leary, suspicious and anti-intellectual on the more populist cavalier "pew-sitter" side.


That said, I am heartened by Fumble's post above that the tide is turning in the proper direction and tend to believe him. (There have always been enlightened scholarly folks on the mountain; of course, most of them reside in the Humanities disciplines, i.e. English Department--at least when I was there :wink: ) For example, I do believe his post because of what has been highlighted in another thread that I haven't yet read. I am referring to the article by Prior from the English Department (some good stuff in those Victorian classes, but I digress) about faith and the realm of animal rights. I was very heartened that a professor felt the freedom to be able to compose such an article as well as impressed at the inclusion of this article in the first re-launched issue of The Liberty Journal. All that said, may Liberty ascend to the forefront of intellectual evangelical scholarship.


In regards to Noll's book: Good book that I am in the midst of plowing through. The book seems to articulate many of the exceptions I have regarding the topic. This book should be on present and future LU students' and faculty/administration's personal reading lists, if not already.


An article by Noll on the 10th anniversary of the book:

http://www.firstthings.com/article.php3?id_article=385 There is some good stuff here, too many good quotes to list. The article really is a good read.


Also, while leafing through the book at the book store, I came across "God's Harvard" which is a look at the fundamentalist college: Patrick Henry College. May Liberty never walk back through those doors of fundamentalism. Read the book and get a pretty poignant picture of what the "cocoon mentality" looks like moreso than vintage-LU (incidentally, after speaking with many in my daily activities, a similar picture of what many invariably perceive of our fine alma mater.)


Finally, there is an interesting piece in a recent "The Economist" magazine about religion in today's geopolitical landscape. In one of the myriad articles, there is an interesting tidbit about the rise of evangelical thought in America beginning with Methodism (which, according to the article, most Americans identified themselves with in the early years.) The series is a collection of assorted articles that you might find stimulating reading.


The Economist's layout:

1. http://www.economist.com/specialreports ... d=10015255 Beginning

2. http://www.economist.com/specialreports ... d=10015239 Article entitled "O Come All Ye Faithful"


Opinion/Reaction samples:

1. http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/200 ... -the-world

2. http://www.christianpost.com/article/20 ... ligion.htm

3. http://www.calvin.edu/publications/spar ... 1/mind.htm Calvin College's Spark journal cites Noll's book and a The Atlantic Monthly, October 2000 article, The Opening of the Evangelical Mind.
Alan Wolfe, author of the Atlantic Monthly piece, picked up on that theme. Wolfe noted that there is "a determined effort by evangelical-Christian institutions to create a life of the mind." He praised Calvin, Fuller seminary, Pepperdine, Baylor, Valparaiso, Notre Dame and Wheaton as places where "evangelical scholars are writing the books, publishing the journals, teaching the students, and sustaining the networks necessary to establish a presence in American academic life."

>Opening line from Atlantic Monthly article:
Of all America’s religious traditions, the author writes, evangelical Protestantism, at least in its twentieth-century conservative forms, has long ranked “dead last in intellectual stature.” Now evangelical thinkers are trying to revitalize their tradition. Can they turn an intellectual backwater into an intellectual beacon?
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By Cider Jim
Registration Days Posts
#131065
He praised Calvin, Fuller seminary, Pepperdine, Baylor, Valparaiso, Notre Dame and Wheaton as places where "evangelical scholars are writing the books, publishing the journals, teaching the students, and sustaining the networks necessary to establish a presence in American academic life."
I personally know LU students and faculty who have gone to all of those Christian universities mentioned for graduate school, and several have even come back to LU to teach. Another book that I would recommend, that I've taught in Sunday school, is Finding God at Harvard: Spiritual Journeys of Thinking Christians.
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By PeterParker
Registration Days Posts
#131178
Cider Jim wrote:I personally know LU students and faculty who have gone to all of those Christian universities mentioned for graduate school, and several have even come back to LU to teach. Another book that I would recommend, that I've taught in Sunday school, is Finding God at Harvard: Spiritual Journeys of Thinking Christians.

For those so inclined to want investigate further on this subject, I ran across the following from researching Cider's recommendation above:


It seems that Kelly Monroe Kullberg's book spawned another book, Finding God Beyond Harvard: The Quest for Veritas and also the Forum, http://www.veritas.org/, which is a very enlightening and promising idea. (Actually, a quick search on the site reveals that an LU scholar, Dr. Gary Habermas, has delivered some lectures. (The site is worth rooting around a bit.)
By kel varson
Registration Days Posts
#131346
Let's not forget the debate team. They do quite a bit for the academic reputation of the school. They were JF's pride and joy.
By FlamingYalieWahoo
Registration Days Posts
#131719
Another faculty member who received some national recognition for his academic work is Michael Babcock. He wrote a book entitled "Solving the Murder of Attila the Hun". It was published by the academic wing of Penguin which gives it a degree credibility beyond evangelical presses. He was even featured on the History Channel - which of course is the ultimate compliment - it was a discussion wedged between a show on Hitler and one on UFOs. Just kidding - they do have some good programing.

But this is the type of thing that will take LUs academic reputation up a notch or two. I was just there for a faculty seminar in the History department and heard an excellent presentation on a book to be published on the 1944 presidential campaign. The history department also sponsored a conference last Spring which invited papers and many responded, many who were not Christian. Faculty are giving papers at professional conferences quite frequently beyond just the Christian academic professional societies associated with their field of study (I know that many do this) - this is where they make connections with other scholars and it helps give them a reputation of being good scholars.

However, this is very difficult when faculty are teaching 12-15 hours per semester. Now the administration is increasing class sizes for some of the introductory courses without giving faculty the needed assistance with the class. Apparently this is being modeled after larger universities. Yes, UVA does have some very large introductory classes - 350 -1000. I TAed for a 350 student class. However we had 6 teaching assistances for that class and the faculty member only taught TWO classes that semester - one undergrad and one grad. And before anyone starts in about the shame of TAs teaching classes. Here's what (for the most part) the role of a TA is. The professor gave two lectures a week. The TAs led 3 discussion sections of about 20 students at other times during the week. We addressed questions, gave quizzes on the assigned readings, and gave our own mini-lectures. We created, with faculty oversite, the exams and we graded the exams. The faculty member was the final authority in the class - she held office hours and the students could take any concerns to the faculty member including having their exams re-evaluated if they thought our grading was incorrect. If you still have a problem with TAs, let me ask you "how else are they supposed to learn how to teach?" So faculty at major universities, teaching on average only 2 courses per semester obviously have more time to do research and writing which certainly helps improve their scholarship. (There are those faculty who only want to do research and you can tell from their teaching abilities and attitudes toward students that this is the case, but I digress.) LU, from my understanding, wants to be primarily a teaching university but some research is necessary for the above reason. In my humble opinion without at least a degree of small group interaction and more personal engagement students gain very little from such cattle car classes. I have the utmost respect for those faculty who can teach such massive class loads and publish articles and books at the same time. Some how LU needs to come up with the cash for more faculty or the students and the academic reputation will suffer.
By scuzdriver
Registration Days Posts
#131727
El Scorcho wrote:
scuzdriver wrote:So to be "intelligent" you have to have an education?
Who are you posing this question to?
Anyone.
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By Cider Jim
Registration Days Posts
#131735
So to be "intelligent" you have to have an education?
Of course not. Intelligence is IQ; Education is knowledge. But the more education you have, the more intelligent you will appear. And don't even get me started on how so many Ph.D.'s have ZERO common sense. :banghead
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By flamesfilmguy
Registration Days Posts
#131796
i know one! his initials are EC can you guess?
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By El Scorcho
Registration Days Posts
#131797
scuzdriver wrote:
El Scorcho wrote:
scuzdriver wrote:So to be "intelligent" you have to have an education?
Who are you posing this question to?
Anyone.
I agree with Cider Jim. I think Intelligence is multi-faceted and education is just a part of that. Intelligence is all about potential and it's hard to see that potential fulfilled without education. So, you don't necessarily have to be educated to be intelligent, but if you're an intelligent person, education just adds fuel to the fire IMHO.

I asked who you were posing the question to because it was phrased as if it were a response to someone. I wasn't sure who that someone was.
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By Cider Jim
Registration Days Posts
#131804
Cider family example--I had an aunt & uncle, both with genius IQs. Were they intelligent? Yes. However, my aunt earned her bachelor's and master's and became a middle school principal for much of her adult life. Was she educated? Of course. My uncle never went to college and dropped out of the military and was a janitor his whole life. Was he educated? No. Did he waste his life? Probably. Potential means nothing if you don't follow through, or as Thoreau used to say:

"If you have built castles in the air, your work need not be lost; that is where they should be. Now put the foundations under them" (Walden).
By scuzdriver
Registration Days Posts
#132129
Cider, was he happy? He just may have been the most intelligent janitor around!
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By Cider Jim
Registration Days Posts
#132152
Yes, very happy. He married a woman he loved and loved him. He played music on the side and actually appeared on a local TV show playing music and cut a few albums, tapes, and CDs. He claimed he even taught Kathy Mattea how to play the guitar.
By Hold My Own
Registration Days Posts
#132267
Cider Jim wrote:Cider family example--I had an aunt & uncle, both with genius IQs. Were they intelligent? Yes. However, my aunt earned her bachelor's and master's and became a middle school principal for much of her adult life. Was she educated? Of course. My uncle never went to college and dropped out of the military and was a janitor his whole life. Was he educated? No. Did he waste his life? Probably. Potential means nothing if you don't follow through, or as Thoreau used to say:

"If you have built castles in the air, your work need not be lost; that is where they should be. Now put the foundations under them" (Walden).

"I have observed something in this world of ours. The fastest runner doesnt always win the race, and the strongest warrior doesn't always win the battle. The wise are often poor, and the skillful are not necessarily wealthy. And those who are educated don't always lead successful lives. It is all decided by chance, being at the right place at the right time."
~Ecc 9:11 (NLT)
By FlamingYalieWahoo
Registration Days Posts
#132272
Just a question is this topic about intelligence in general or intelligence at Liberty and the promotion thereof?
By LUconn
Registration Days Posts
#132274
Hold My Own wrote: (NLT)

:timeout [Fundy] Not cool [/Fundy]
By Hold My Own
Registration Days Posts
#132275
Scorchy pretty much said EVERY professor at LU thinks they are a lot smarter than they are




Scorchy coming to defend himself in 3.......2.........1........
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