[Purple Haize]

Is there a single secondary theological issue you won't badger people to death over?

You're more than welcome to contribute to the conversation. I do, though, take the twisting of Scripture seriously, as I hope you do too.

Tell me, NAJ, if someone you know who claims to be a brother in Christ is openly living in sin....what does the Bible offer as instruction? Ignore it? Help that brother to like himself? I'm open to suggestions.

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone?
Don't criticize the splinter in your neighbors eye while ignoring the plank in your own eye?

[JK37]

ATrain, I agree that all too often, those arguing that homosexuality is a sin are siply screaming what they've been taught or told for years, rather than presenting a viable defense of their position. The same principle applies to both sides: one is only entitled to an opinion if they can defend it.

Moving on, I am genuinely trying to understand the particular defense you quoted. If I'm following correctly - and please correct me if I'm wrong - your interpretation is that Paul was comdemning homosexual activity because of the idolatrous nature of the mind in those who were performing the acts, and not due to the homosexual nature of the acts themselves. Is that right?

[LUconn]

That's weak sauce haize. I know you're not even serious with that.

[Purple Haize]

That's weak sauce haize. I know you're not even serious with that.

[RubberMallet]

that guy's finger banging little kids but i lied to my boss so i could go golfing. dangit. i'm not casting the first stone.

the internet is an amazing place. i can find a website that makes pretty convincing arguments that lizard people oversee everything that transpires on earth, and i can find websites where they can make up ancient roman proclivities and norms and completely misconstrue the idea of "context" to justify their behavior.

[Yacht Rock]

i can find a website that makes pretty convincing arguments that lizard people oversee everything that transpires on earth

You know about our Lizard overlords too?

[Purple Haize]

that guy's finger banging little kids but i lied to my boss so i could go golfing. dangit. i'm not casting the first stone.

.

So where exactly is the Biblical Sin Chart? Granted, of the activities you listed one is against the law, which is a good thing. However, Spiritually, there is no classification of sin. Unless it is located in a very obscure inter Testemental book that I didn't read

[RubberMallet]

you are the perfect christian friend. available for encouragement and niceties without the threat of ever being confronted for any sin! sign me up.

the critical flaw is that alumnus has not made any claim to superiority. his non recognition of his own sins is unproven. interesting that much of the NT is correction and instruction. DIDNT PAUL READ THE BEAM IN HIS OWN EYE VERSE!!

[Purple Haize]

you are the perfect christian friend. available for encouragement and niceties without the threat of ever being confronted for any sin! sign me up.

the critical flaw is that alumnus has not made any claim to superiority. his non recognition of his own sins is unproven. interesting that much of the NT is correction and instruction. DIDNT PAUL READ THE BEAM IN HIS OWN EYE VERSE!!

Nope. I just know we are all sinners. Period. In fact, in your earlier post YOUR sin of lying made ThE Big 10, you know, Thou shall not lie/bear false witness. And the guy with the kids only violated a law, lust, of The 2nd 7 And those were made up by the Catholics so can you really put much stock in their idol worshipping declarations?

Comparing or justifying sin is silly. How many people have had an adult beverage? How many people would say that is a sin? Do I think homosexuality is Biblical? No. Obviously ATrain does. So what? Do I think drinking, gambling and dancing are sins? No. My parents do. So what? We all work out our faith and at the end of the day, literally, we answer to God. I'm not going to condemn ATrain for his actions and if we knew each other in the real world would be more then happy to help in his Faith. And I wouldn't even need to bring up his sexual preference.

[LUconn]

"Now go and sin no more" is they key you left out of not throwing the first stone. And if you're brother who is claiming to be saved is living in habitual sin, it's completely biblical to confront him. Tact is normally what is ignored in those situations, however.

[RubberMallet]

i don't think we are ideologically opposed here. the problem is you are putting forth condemnation when there is actually none. some things are more clear cut than others in the Bible. It has been bastardized over the years in an attempt to justify behavior. similarly we have a couple who's kid is banging the lights out of girls all over the place. he's like a rabbit. everyone knows it. we've not said boo but his parents continually justify without it even being brought up. "we aren't exactly sure what is meant by fornication outside of marriage. maybe there is some cultural context we are missing. So we just let him do what he wants" you can make this argument for nearly EVERY sin. That doesn't mean we have to as a Christian people throw our hands up and not discuss what it is that we believe. the difference is living in sin and being a sinner are completely different. I was a "were all sinners guy" for a long time but it doesn't work. its easier but it falls flat. 1 requires hating sin and fleeing from it even though we'll fail. The other is embracing the idea that Sin is ok "we all do it" or "God will forgive me" and justifying its use to be happy.

i dont' think anyone in here would in a real world setting cast atrain aside. using that as an argument is silly.

[SuperJon]

So where exactly is the Biblical Sin Chart? Granted, of the activities you listed one is against the law, which is a good thing. However, Spiritually, there is no classification of sin. Unless it is located in a very obscure inter Testemental book that I didn't read

Actually, yes there is. The idea that all sin is equal is a Sunday School lesson that is unfounded and just sounds nice and pretty. It is true that any sin will keep you out of Heaven. However, the Bible is very clear that there are certain sins that are worse than others and that there are sins that God despises. The whole speck and plank thing is completely taken out of context when people say you can't call out other believers for sinning. There are multiple passages talking about how we are supposed to hold other believers to holiness and sinlessness. Passive Christianity is one of the worst things to happen to our faith in the last 15 years. We've gone from legalism to anyone can do what they want and completely skipped the middle ground where we're supposed to be.

[jbock13]

The wages of sin is death. It does not matter how bad or little it is. Therefore, all sin is worthy of death, without being cleansed in the blood of Christ.

[Purple Haize]

The wages of sin is death. It does not matter how bad or little it is. Therefore, all sin is worthy of death, without being cleansed in the blood of Christ.

Apparently some sin is only worthy of a minor scolding.

[Purple Haize]

So where exactly is the Biblical Sin Chart? Granted, of the activities you listed one is against the law, which is a good thing. However, Spiritually, there is no classification of sin. Unless it is located in a very obscure inter Testemental book that I didn't read

Actually, yes there is. The idea that all sin is equal is a Sunday School lesson that is unfounded and just sounds nice and pretty. It is true that any sin will keep you out of Heaven. However, the Bible is very clear that there are certain sins that are worse than others and that there are sins that God despises. The whole speck and plank thing is completely taken out of context when people say you can't call out other believers for sinning. There are multiple passages talking about how we are supposed to hold other believers to holiness and sinlessness. Passive Christianity is one of the worst things to happen to our faith in the last 15 years. We've gone from legalism to anyone can do what they want and completely skipped the middle ground where we're supposed to be.

Really? Where? You've got the Big 10, then The Golden Rule. The Bible talks more about discipleship and one brother helping another, there is nothing passive about that at all. We can not hold anyone Sinless because none of us are sinless. We can only strive to seek Gods heart and live our faith. It's not passive and its way more in depth then anything you learn in Sunday School.

[SuperJon]

All sin keeps you out of heaven and is punishable by death, but some sins have harsher punishments on earth than others. If I lie, it's a sin. The punishment for lying isn't much. If I cheat on my wife, it's a sin. The punishment for that is much, much worse.

No one can be sinless, but our goal is to be sinless. Our goal is to be like Christ. We strive to be holy because Christ is holy.

By seeking God's heart, you are seeking a sinless life. God cannot sin. He hates sin. If we are seeking him, we are seeking anything but sin.

As for the sins that God hates, check out Proverbs 16.

[Purple Haize]

All sin keeps you out of heaven and is punishable by death, but some sins have harsher punishments on earth than others. If I lie, it's a sin. The punishment for lying isn't much. If I cheat on my wife, it's a sin. The punishment for that is much, much worse.

No one can be sinless, but our goal is to be sinless. Our goal is to be like Christ. We strive to be holy because Christ is holy.

By seeking God's heart, you are seeking a sinless life. God cannot sin. He hates sin. If we are seeking him, we are seeking anything but sin.

As for the sins that God hates, check out Proverbs 16.

Ohhhhh on EARTH. Well I agree with you there.
And if you cheat on your wife there really is no punishment, unless you get caught
(Hey, it's the Dark Side)

[jbock13]

Right, but as Haize said, we're talking about an earthly rhelm in that regard. However, theologically, one sin is of the same nature in all aspects.

But anway, just to clarify.

[SuperJon]

Jbock, that just isn't true. The Bible is clear that some sin is worse than others and that God hates certain sin more than others.

[NG33]

Right, but as Haize said, we're talking about an earthly rhelm in that regard. However, theologically, one sin is of the same nature in all aspects.

But anway, just to clarify.

I think this just arguing semantics. While one sin could stop you from entering heaven, it's still clear that God calls specific sins abominations. Also, Proverbs 6 doesn't clarify if that's just in the earthly realm or not.

[jbock13]

"For the wages of sin is death,"

What exactly am I missing here?

Mind you, arguing semantics is actually a very crucial aspect to any form of study.

[SuperJon]

Going five miles an hour over the speed limit will get you a ticket.

Going 25 MPH over will also get you a ticket.

Both are illegal.

One is worse than the other.

[jbock13]

Going five miles an hour over the speed limit will get you a ticket.

Going 25 MPH over will also get you a ticket.

Both are illegal.

One is worse than the other.

But, both are illegal. That proves my point. One may have been worse as far as the temporal earth is concerned, however, they are both equally wrong in the eyes of God, therefore, the wages of sin is death. (if God were a traffic cop).

Wrong is wrong. Sin is sin. There are no degrees of it in the eyes of God.

[Purple Haize]

Jbock, that just isn't true. The Bible is clear that some sin is worse than others and that God hates certain sin more than others.

Really? What are those sins?

[adam42381]

Clearly, being gay is the worst one.