[Sly Fox]

This isn't a Philly interrogation. This is an investigation that will require some digging to verify some claims. I am glad to see the school take this step.

[LUconn]

The best part about this move is that they're doing what needs to be done (and yes, this does need to be done) but at the same time they didn't do it because a bunch of dbag bloggers have an axe to grind. They waited until it was warranted by legit media.

[El Scorcho]

The best part about this move is that they're doing what needs to be done (and yes, this does need to be done) but at the same time they didn't do it because a bunch of dbag bloggers have an axe to grind. They waited until it was warranted by legit media.

Eh. Whether they had an axe to grind or not, they're the ones who exposed it. The "legit" media certainly didn't turn it up. I don't like their motivation for doing it, but if it's true, I'd rather someone have put it out there than not.

[thepostman]

The best part about this move is that they're doing what needs to be done (and yes, this does need to be done) but at the same time they didn't do it because a bunch of dbag bloggers have an axe to grind. They waited until it was warranted by legit media.

either way it wasn't done because they wanted to do it, it was done because of an image thing...no more, no less...not saying it didn't need to be done...but still...

[phoenix]

The best part about this move is that they're doing what needs to be done (and yes, this does need to be done) but at the same time they didn't do it because a bunch of dbag bloggers have an axe to grind. They waited until it was warranted by legit media.

Eh. Whether they had an axe to grind or not, they're the ones who exposed it. The "legit" media certainly didn't turn it up. I don't like their motivation for doing it, but if it's true, I'd rather someone have put it out there than not.

I definitely don't like the motivations behind some of the folks; for some, it simply comes down to the fact that Paige Patterson likes the Caners, and they don't like Patterson at all. For others, it's a matter of not liking Liberty, or conservatives in the SBC, or whatever. But if the allegations are true, then something needs to be done, and if they're not true, then that needs to be aired publicly and the folks making the allegations need to be called on it.

And "legit" media would never have picked this story up; it's too small for them. The Lynchburg fishwrap may have, but I doubt it -- the allegations have been out there for a while now, after all.

[WinterIsComing]

https://www.liberty.edu/index.cfm?PID=18495&MID=18644

Liberty apparently will now conduct its own inquiry...finally. I loved Caner while I was in school and still like to hear him talk/preach when I have the time, but I don't support blatant storytelling to boost one's credibility either. I reserve judgment, for now, but I get the feeling LU's investigation will come to a conclusion similar to, let's say, calling Judge Sonya Sotomayor’s controversial statements, "rhetorical flourishes".

[JDUB]

I had 2 classes with him and was under the impression he was born in turkey, but I don't remember any exact quotes so that was probably just the impression he gave without clarifying it. In my mind where he was born is not relevant to anything, unless he has directly lied about it which would make it an ethical issue. Seems to me like a lot of this is just people trying to get rid of Caner bc he steps on a lot of peoples toes, but I guess we'll have to wait till June to see the actual facts.

[thepostman]

I had a couple classes with him as well, and he never says he was born in turkey...but its easy to come to the conclusion with how he talks..

I don't think he lied, he simply stated things in a way to make things a bit more marketable...but I do not agree with doing that and it would be nice for him to simply admit he was wrong in doing that....someone's testimony isn't meant to be a money maker....and that is what it has become...

now the people who brought this out to the open were d----- bags, no doubt, and if he was a calvanist I have a feeling it would've been much longer before people started talking...though people were talking long before this got blown open, that is for sure...

[SuperJon]

No one gets criticized like this unless they go out and attack and criticize other people. I think these guys that started this stuff a few years ago had very flawed reasons but this only happened because of how militant and attacking Dr. Caner is in his personality and methodology. Dr. Caner is extremely knowledgeable and intelligent so it's no doubt that no one is attacking that. They just found what they could attack and hit it hard.

[phoenix]

and if he was a calvanist I have a feeling it would've been much longer before people started talking...though people were talking long before this got blown open, that is for sure...

No. If he were a Calvinist, it just would have been a different group of people attacking, and a different group of people defending. And if a contemporary Calvinist had done something similar to this, Caner would have been one of the first to charge.

This post is probably the most even-handed thing I've read on the subject. One thing I think people are forgetting -- our goal should be to restore a brother, not tear him apart. If the allegations are true, then Caner needs to be treated better than he is.

[LUconn]

That's been my beef the whole time. In my opinion, Caner is probably in the wrong to some degree. But I obviously don't know since I'm directly involved with the situation. But it's really bothered me the tone being put out there by these bloggers. I even checked to see what type of guys these were and one is a well respected deacon. Their hearts are obviously not in the right place and are doing this "investigating" out of malice. Certainly not trying to further the kingdom.

[phoenix]

Biblically, this is what should have happened. 1). Someone should have gone to Caner first, told him that it sounded like there were some inconsistencies with his testimony as delivered at some churches and his biography, and that he needed to address them. 2). IF he didn't do that, then Liberty's administration OR the leadership at Thomas Road should have been notified (assuming he's a member at T-Road), and THEY should have approached him. 3). If THAT didn't resolve the situation, then it should have gone to the full church (NOT the Internet, not Christianity Today, or Associated Baptist Press). That's what Christ taught in Matthew 18:15-17.

The problem is that the first allegations were made by nonbelievers, so the accusation was already out there before the Church could do something about it. The situation was exacerbated by the appearance of a cover-up.

[ALAFlamesFan]

I have never heard Dr. Caner speak nor read anything he has written. Frankly, apart from seeing him promoted on LU material that comes in the mail I have no knowledge of him at all. My biases are that I love LU and that the things that bothered me most were when we did silly things and made silly statements for publicity's sake that brought ridicule. (for example: the big sign leading to campus that said "This University is politically incorrect")

That said, if these allegations are true he obviously should be removed from his post. This is not a question of his salvation or his standing in the body of Christ so much as an academic integrity issue. These allegations if true damage the crediblity of LU's seminary as long as he is the head.

As an alumni of LU I sincerely hope that the allegations are false. If they are true the best outcome would be for Dr. Caner to resign on his own.

Again I don't know Dr. Caner from Adam or any of his arguments, speaking style, etc. I am only commenting on the accusations and the evidence presented publicly about his resume and background.

From a cursory glance it seems obvious that at the very least Dr Caner has been less than honest about specifics of his story. At the worst he has intentionally misled hundreds of people for his own gain.

I have always believed that LU was bigger than Dr. Falwell and it is certainly bigger than Dr. Caner.

[JK37]

This is not a question of his salvation or his standing in the body of Christ so much as an academic integrity issue.

But does LU make decisions on the basis of academic integrity more so than standing in the body of Christ? Should it?

Does Ed Hindson's story correlate here?

What do you guys think?

[Sly Fox]

Reputational standing is indeed important to the university ... especially ours when it relates to ethics & morality.

As for the Hindson matter, I don't see a strong correlation. But it should be noted that he stepped away for a time before he was brought back into full standing.

[SuperJon]

I thought the N&A did a very good job this morning laying out what the accusations were and told that pretty fairly. If anyone wants to know a quick rundown of what's going on, that article gives you a pretty good idea of exactly what the accusations are.

[JK37]

As for the Hindson matter, I don't see a strong correlation. But it should be noted that he stepped away for a time before he was brought back into full standing.

That's what I was getting at as an option the University may consider.

[Sly Fox]

Gotcha. But frankly I do not think this will have to go that far if this all goes the way it should. I work in crisis communications these days and how things are handled has as much to do with the ultimate impression left on the public as the details of the issue itself.

[WinterIsComing]

Gotcha. But frankly I do not think this will have to go that far if this all goes the way it should. I work in crisis communications these days and how things are handled has as much to do with the ultimate impression left on the public as the details of the issue itself.

Personal opinion; This hasn't been handled well, still isn't being handled well, and will ultimately come to an ending where LU still get's burned. The only thing that can be controlled now is the extent of the damage, but LU is doing such a good job shooting itself in the foot with wacky quotes from Towns and an investigation that is going to take about 2 months too long, that makes me believe this won't have a happy ending. Ultimately LU is to blame for not taking seriously outside criticism of Caner soon enough. They let a molehill turn into a mountain and that's on them. That is a recurring issue with the university and must be fixed. That's the real problem. The University is so absorbed with its public image in the political and religious realms, that it forgets to watch over itself sometimes and neglects important issues like academics, and internal administrative problems. Swift and decisive action either way early on in the Caner situation would have solved almost everything. Now, either way, too much time has passed, and any decision will be a poor one no matter what they decide because they ignored the issue for too long. We should have been dealing with this, and not trying to win a local election.

[LUconn]

There's a lot of people working at Liberty. They could probably do more than one thing at a time.

[WinterIsComing]

Just like sports, it's all about results. LU's opinions on national issues (social, moral, ecomnomic, religous, political, ethical) is largely discredited because people see LU get caught with it's pants down on internal issues that it should have been focusing on but wasn't. LU ignores alot of internal stuff 'til it blows up, but hot button socio-economic issues, BOOM!, we're there bringing the hammer, Mr. T style!

[Green Monkey]

Just like sports, it's all about results. LU's opinions on national issues (social, moral, ecomnomic, religous, political, ethical) is largely discredited because people see LU get caught with it's pants down on internal issues that it should have been focusing on but wasn't. LU ignores alot of internal stuff 'til it blows up, but hot button socio-economic issues, BOOM!, we're there bringing the hammer, Mr. T style!

That is very true. We have a lawsuit against the federal government ready to go the day after the health care bill passes yet the internal bureaucracy that deals with everyday stuff seems to be designed to be inefficient and frustrating for everyone involved. Their priorities are definitely misplaced...

[ALAFlamesFan]

I hear what you guys are saying about LU being slow to the draw on this one and maybe not as thorough early on and those criticisms may be and have in the past been deserved but imo this is all on Dr. Caner. LU didn't ask him to (allegedly) embellish his story. LU didn't ask him to be aggressive in his speaking style which made enemies (SJ's point further up the page). Now was he ever qualifed to be President of the Seminary? That is a legit question but there is precedent at LU for Seminary Presidents who had a good schtick but questionable academic credentials.

Let's not drag LU through the mud on this one unnecessarily.

[WinterIsComing]

ALA I can agree with you for the most part. It is on Caner for (potentially) lying, but then again, it's on the University to investigate those claims immediately. But I think the University needs to take a serious look at how they handle things. Take care of the University and the rest will fall into place.

I even agree, I dunno, 70% of the time, with the University's stances on "bigger" issues (like I said I'm a big State's Rights guy, so I may agree with the sentiment but not the resulting action Liberty is calling for). But that should not be their focus or priority. I'd even say it may not be so, but how they go about it in many ways tells you where their priorities lie. The University puts itself in these situations and I would just love to see a real refocusing on what really matters on the mountain: Academics, Athletics, Student advocacy/relations/housing/everything. That's what it should be about; What's best for the students. Not the public perception of special interest groups that Liberty is, by it's very nature of being a Christian University, affiliated with, whether for good or for bad. If the focus had been on what was best for the students, I personally feel this would have been dealt with much sooner.

[ALAFlamesFan]

I agree but if you think LU is bad about those things now you should have been there 15 years ago. We have been masters at that for a long time, LOL. I just don't want to confuse what you are talking about with this issue. LU is responsible for it's own bad press many times and we put our foot in our mouths more times than i can count but LU can't police every prof and micro-manage their lives. Could we have checked more closely when we hired him? Absolutely. Should we have moved on these accusations sooner? Maybe but if we jumped into an investigation every time someone on the outside had an axe to grind Dr. F would have been under internal investigation every day.

Look every objective person that has ever gone to LU can agree with a lot of what you are saying. LU does tend to shoot itself in the foot more than most institutions but in this instance the focus should be on this individual professor and his issues. That is all I am saying.