[tinytim]

If our calling as Christ-followers is to share Christ, how are we doing? I know looking at myself in situations that I have come across with people of this lifestyle I could have done better at presenting the real hope they are looking for.

[JDUB]

talking to them is just giving them attention and putting fuel on the fire. nothing you say is going to change anything, its just going to give the media more to talk about. they are just as close minded as most of the people at LU. the best thing to do would be to completely ignore them so they don't get any attention. then they would fail in their mission of stirring up trouble at LU and making the news

[Kolzilla41]

That is good point but posting remarks , like those above, are harmful not helpful.

[newandimproved]

talking to them is just giving them attention and putting fuel on the fire. nothing you say is going to change anything, its just going to give the media more to talk about. they are just as close minded as most of the people at LU. the best thing to do would be to completely ignore them so they don't get any attention. then they would fail in their mission of stirring up trouble at LU and making the news

I completely agree. I think it may even have a larger impact if people said nothing to or about them...positive or not...When I was around I knew of people bringing them food and being nice to them, and I knew of people yelling nasty things at them. Both are completely pointless and are the kinds of reactions they are looking for. That is my opinion anyways.

[SuperJon]

I don't think you have to be buddy buddy with them but you can still be polite. If they ask if they can talk to you, instead of ignoring them just say no and that you're on your way to do something. That's not rude and it's not giving them the attention they want. As with everything else in life, there's a middle ground.

[qkslvrsrfrboy]

which is all I did. I dont think I was rude to them, and I definitely was not making fun of them, all I did was state a fact. If they cant handle it then they probably shouldnt be on the soul force ride.

If you look back at previous threads about soulforce, you will see that I have alot of experience with them due to the fact a kid on my youth group leadership team from highschool is one of the higher ups of the group.

Yes, there are plenty of gay people at Liberty. No im not saying we should be rude to them. We should treat them with respect and love, but sometimes part of the way of loving someone is to stop them from going down a dangerous road.

People always say the wrath of God is when he punishes you. The wrath of God is when he hands you over to your sin so you can destroy yourself. Its his love for us that says no more, and does something drastic to get through to your heart.

I would much rather have people let them know they are wrong than do nothing at all.

[phoenix]

From what I've read about Soulforce, they're not as interested in a dialog as they are in making sure their point gets across, and painting people who are against them in the worst light possible. The go to Liberty every year because that's where the PR is, not because they actually care about any closeted people on campus.

I thought that what qkslvrsrfrboy said was pretty good. No real confrontation, but the point was made.

[qkslvrsrfrboy]

Exactly, they dont care about actually changing anything, they know their efforts are fruitless. They just want the media attention that christians hate homosexuals, so christians are evil.

It would be one thing if they did promote discussion instead of the questions they do usually actually ask that just go off the idea christians hate homosexuality. If their questions were more why do you think homosexuality is a sin and not why wont you accept me, i would view them differently

[TylerBakersGonnaBGreat]

Hey TBGBG,

I know you might not agree with the choice, but you will never truly help someone with your faith if you don't give them a little respect first. Remember, they are people too. I don't agree with it as much as you do but we need to have their hearts open in order to change them.

Im not going to respect someone that doesnt respect themselves. They come to get the attention and just try to prove a point, so they arent being respectful to us or themselves so they get none from me. I see what youre saying 100%, but if they want to come out with that mindset, block a road into campus and take up the sidewalk so you have to see them, no no no. I dont know if you saw them but the students had to walk out in the road because they were standing in groups on the sidewalk and didnt move. You want some respect from me? Have some respect for yourself and show common courtesy.

[Kolzilla41]

Point taken.

[Hold My Own]

I saw them sipping on Latte's at Starbucks today...I guess they realized that they came at the wrong time seeing how there are no students left for them to protest to


Nice to know they only protest when they have someone to protest to, I guess it's not about the cause but rather the attention from the cause

[tinytim]

Nice to know they only protest when they have someone to protest to, I guess it's not about the cause but rather the attention from the cause

Awesome!!!

[Hold My Own]

It's so true though, 99.9% of these people you can completely guess what type of up bringing they've had and type of home life....and now with one lifestyle decision they are receiving more hugs and attention in a single hour then they have in a lifetime.


Its like the stat's I heard on ESPN Radio the other day going through the "problem" athletes in the NFL and which ones came from a rough upbringing...it's really like 99%


*For the record I'm not ignorant enough to think there are not exceptions, in fact as most of us know Doc came from a family that would have caused most of us to rebel against society but lucky for us he used that in a positive way

[ATrain]

"I wanted you to know that I love all of my students. Even those who struggle with homosexuality. I believe that they feel safe and loved here," said Karen Swallow Prior, English professor at LU.

http://www.wdbj7.com/Global/story.asp?S ... 7&nav=S6aK

This is what was said by Prior. And thats all I'm going to add to this conversation.

[mrmacphisto]

There is so much going on in this thread, and I don't have nearly enough time to go post-by-post and comment, but a couple of statements jumped out at me.

Yes, there are plenty of gay people at Liberty. No im not saying we should be rude to them. We should treat them with respect and love, but sometimes part of the way of loving someone is to stop them from going down a dangerous road.

Really? I understand what you're saying, but is that biblical? Does God stop us from making poor decisions, or does he allow us to make our own choices? I suppose it varies according to what doctrines you believe, but either way, it's between that person and God. I submit that to attempt to coerce someone into making what you perceive to be the "right" decision, even if you are correct, is not the most loving thing. You can offer direction and advice, but ultimately, you have to love the person enough to let them make their own choice. It's where we get the phrase "tough love," and it's true. Love is perhaps the most difficult and costly thing we can afford anyone.

Exactly, they dont care about actually changing anything, they know their efforts are fruitless. They just want the media attention that christians hate homosexuals, so christians are evil.

Somehow I don't think that was their point, if only because Soulforce is supposed to be a Christian organization. If they were an atheist organization I might agree.

[qkslvrsrfrboy]

There is so much going on in this thread, and I don't have nearly enough time to go post-by-post and comment, but a couple of statements jumped out at me.

Yes, there are plenty of gay people at Liberty. No im not saying we should be rude to them. We should treat them with respect and love, but sometimes part of the way of loving someone is to stop them from going down a dangerous road.

Really? I understand what you're saying, but is that biblical? Does God stop us from making poor decisions, or does he allow us to make our own choices? I suppose it varies according to what doctrines you believe, but either way, it's between that person and God. I submit that to attempt to coerce someone into making what you perceive to be the "right" decision, even if you are correct, is not the most loving thing. You can offer direction and advice, but ultimately, you have to love the person enough to let them make their own choice. It's where we get the phrase "tough love," and it's true. Love is perhaps the most difficult and costly thing we can afford anyone.

its a tough line. You dont let your kids go out and drink because its between them and God, and I know thats a far end of this spectrum. However, you need to give people the information to plant seeds. Ultimately God is the only thing that can change their hearts, but that doesnt mean we just sit here with our fingers crossed. There needs to be a balance between the two, otherwise you could use your argument to say that missionary work is unneeded, their salvation is between them and God.

Exactly, they dont care about actually changing anything, they know their efforts are fruitless. They just want the media attention that christians hate homosexuals, so christians are evil.

Somehow I don't think that was their point, if only because Soulforce is supposed to be a Christian organization. If they were an atheist organization I might agree.

I meant Soulforce wants the media attention, the media uses it to say christians hate homosexuals, christians are evil.

[PeterParker]

TBGBG, you do realize you are going to have to interact with people who are gay, straight and everything in-between when you start working. In fact, you may not even know that someone has a different sexual orientation than you do before you become workplace friends with them. Will you not be cordial to those who are around you, even if you have philosophical, lifestyle or religious differences? If you don't plan to be, then godspeed with your workplace experience if it is outside of a church. Probably, a good thing that JC was a bit more understanding, cordial and compassionate toward those who weren't as holy as He...seems He had compassion for the Lost while not condoning their behavioral manifestations (woman at the well, adultress woman, compassion towards his abusers/killers even in death, et al) and reserved disdain for the holier-than-thou religious folks (Temple Cleansing, Pharisees and the rock throwing incident, et al.) But then again, maybe I read it wrong...


Also, gotta rep my English peeps...the firing thing is kinda of sad...plus, Swallow is a good professor...one will actually have to infuse a little reason into his/her faith in order to be a productive thinker/contributor in her class, so, based on the premise of the initial post for this thread, the author will probably be doing her other students a favor by not weighing the learning/discussions down with emotionally driven invective platitudes.


I certainly respect one's right to disagree with someone, even disagreeing vehemently, but I tend to think one can disagree without hatred for, disdain for or belittling an individual...something about truth in love...but I may have read that wrong too. It always amused me that some Christians think that after absolutely demolishing someone with their words or actions, a person would all of a sudden think to themselves, "you know what, that Christianity thing, yep, that's for me...I want me some of that."

Just my $.02.

[JDUB]

what TGBGBG said was they were rude and obviously not trying to be civil because they were forcing people to look at them and going into the spotlight. I have been around gays in the workplace and got along with them just fine. they knew that I was completely against it, and so we just didn't talk about it. thats fine. but when someone wants every news station in town to come tape them trying to make LU look like aholes and they block our roads and sidewalks and have 5 police cars there with their strobes on if that isn't selfish and drawing attention then i don't know what is. their ONLY PURPOSE was attention. anyone who saw them who has a brain should be able to tell that

[FlameNForest]

their ONLY PURPOSE was attention. anyone who saw them who has a brain should be able to tell that

Well we did get some nice new books out of the deal.

[dpkelly87]

it's really a shame all the replies i'm reading to this post. even the title is embarrassing. I myself used to be a Liberty student and left the school because of monetary issues. not because i'm gay, not because i knocked someone up, and not because i got kicked out. It's sad to see how much homophobia and hate there is in these posts by obvious liberty students. One of the reasons Soulforce even came to Liberty is because they were INVITED by students and staff alike. No one complained when we had democrats speak in convo, which is obviously against Liberty's *ahem* preferences. No one tried to convince anyone to turn gay, as opposed to what some idiot on this page mentioned. They were simply campaigning for better treatment and handing out literature. My ex girlfriend is involved in soulforce, as is one of my best friends that i sat through freshman orientation with. My gf didn't turn gay on me and join the equality ride. she was involved in it long before we broke up (due to communication issues we are currently working out). This is so disappointing. This is exactly the opposite of the love of Christ Liberty brags of in its students. This is hate and spite and unnecessary. If you have to gay bash to convince the world that you are straight then do it like a man and show your name and face rather than do it in a blog or post for your friends to read and laugh at. Just imagine if you actually had a serious problem coming to terms with your sexuality and this is how you were treated. you would be devastated. it would already be hard enough for you to fit into social life due to confusion but it would be even harder knowing that coming out of the closet would likely get you ridiculed and taunted. Go on Youtube and look up a movie called For The Bible Tells Me So. research what you believe rather than just spit out hate and nastiness. Try not to make the rest of the Christian community look too bad by giving us all a bad name with your homophobia. Chances are, no one at that thing was even attracted to you. Most of the people on that campaign have monogamous relationships with serious partners and are more dedicated to their rights within that relationship than you are with whatever you have going on between you and that girl you met in your sister dorm during frosh week. idiot. Homosexuality is very likely not a sin. You can't prove me wrong, and I can't prove myself right either. But I do know that Jesus said to love my neighbor as myself. If that excluded gays than he was smart enough to have likely mentioned it. He also said to submit to the wisdom of the authority he has placed over us. Way to ridicule a faculty member for saying she loved ALL her students, even the gays. For as unloving and unpersonable some of you have been just on this topic, maybe she should have mentioned you as the unloved minority instead. I don't come on here often, so if you really want to discuss this further or even give me a hard time, i welcome it (you'll only prove my point anyways). find me on facebook my name is Dan Kelly and i'm from Reading, PA

[dpkelly87]

oh just an afterthought and i swear i'm done.
1. They were on that stretch of the sidewalk because that's where the school told them they could stand.
2. You catch more flies with honey than vinegar. Christ was a friend to the lepers, tax collectors, prostitutes, thieves, and worst of the worst. He made an example by being a friend first and a witness second. making a snide comment doesn't stop someone from sinning. it's about as good as handing out tracts. they do nothing but end up in the trash.
3. Of course they only were there when students were around! that's the whole point of a campaign (notice i did not say "protest").
4. They were in starbucks getting drinks because they were given coupons for free drinks by a gay manager at Starbucks.
5. Lastly, I'm sorry it seemed as though they only wanted attention and didn't care at all about the gay students at liberty, only the media, but if you had stopped to talk to any of them rather than just give them a self-justified hard time, you might have realized how many liberty students were involved. It is completely unreasonable to think that someone should have to leave just because they don't like the way they are being treated. They paid good money, just as most of you did, to attend college at Liberty. They wanted a Christian education just like you did. Last time I heard of people being run out of establishments due to the general public not liking them, I kept hearing this "Jim Crow" character being mentioned. it's called prejudice you are practicing, not love, when you treat PEOPLE (not gays, or homos, or fags) PEOPLE just like you and me like that.

[truedrewdawg87]

dpkelly87 I agree with MOST but not ALL of what you said. The BIBLE clearly defines marriage as an INSTITUTION between a MAN and a WOMAN. If you disagree, go look it up for yourself. Why do you think Adam and Eve were paired together in the garden? Why does the Bible speak of a man leaving his father and mother and joining a WOMAN in marriage? I agree the church as a whole needs to do a better job of loving those who make lifestyle choices it disagrees with. Change comes through love and not cold shoulders and hatred. However, God's idea of marriage is a man and woman He brings together, who as a couple are seeking Him together.

[Hold My Own]

4. They were in starbucks getting drinks because they were given coupons for free drinks by a gay manager at Starbucks.

Whelp, guess I'll be spending more time at the Muse (formerly Daily Grind)

[dpkelly87]

that's fine that you believe that. i hope you forgive me if i must respectfully agree to disagree. i don't want to start a huge theological debate over the institution of marriage. honestly, it just hurt to see my friends and gf hurt by the hatred most of the students showed them. I will say this though: The only verses I have found that openly declare homosexuality as a sin don't necessarily call them a sin, they call them an abomination. The definition of an abomination is something depraved, wrong, a bad habit, disgusting habit or action, blah blah blah. Thirty years ago, the definition of that word changed. The definition in websters dictionary called it something not ordinary, a change from the norm, anything not common to general society. By that definition, i have longer hair than most guys, about 8 piercings in my face and ears, tattoos, and i play music that screams instead of sings. Am I going to hell for these things? no, of course not. but meanwhile we say that homosexuality is an abomination and therefore a sin and I cannot bring myself to believe that. Really, watch that movie i recommended on youtube. It's called for the bible tells me so. It's one of the best studies I have found on the subject. (BTW it shows "straight bashing" as well as "gay bashing".) while it does tend to lean towards my side of the argument, it does at least make an attempt at being fair to both opinions i think.

[Hold My Own]

that's fine that you believe that. i hope you forgive me if i must respectfully agree to disagree. i don't want to start a huge theological debate over the institution of marriage. honestly, it just hurt to see my friends and gf hurt by the hatred most of the students showed them. I will say this though: The only verses I have found that openly declare homosexuality as a sin don't necessarily call them a sin, they call them an abomination. The definition of an abomination is something depraved, wrong, a bad habit, disgusting habit or action, blah blah blah. Thirty years ago, the definition of that word changed. The definition in websters dictionary called it something not ordinary, a change from the norm, anything not common to general society. By that definition, i have longer hair than most guys, about 8 piercings in my face and ears, tattoos, and i play music that screams instead of sings. Am I going to hell for these things? no, of course not. but meanwhile we say that homosexuality is an abomination and therefore a sin and I cannot bring myself to believe that. Really, watch that movie i recommended on youtube. It's called for the bible tells me so. It's one of the best studies I have found on the subject. (BTW it shows "straight bashing" as well as "gay bashing".) while it does tend to lean towards my side of the argument, it does at least make an attempt at being fair to both opinions i think.

Dude, what Bible do you read???? Seriously nothing makes me more upset then when people make words say whatever they want them to say. I take the Lords name in vein at times....bottom line is I cant dispute the fact that in the Bible it tells us not to, bottom line is I'm sinning when I do and I need to correct it.