[ATrain]

I read that article while on campus today. If it were a book, it would be in the fiction section at Barnes & Noble.

All of these bad journalists are attacking Liberty, because of LU's support of President Trump.

Good. Now repeat after me: "Four legs good, two legs bad."

[LUAlum1215]

Re:the board

They may be speaking anonymously to see if they can gauge their collective reactions. "coming out" as one gets them DeMossed. This could let them find out if they have the votes they need without outing themselves.

Interesting thought.

[thepostman]

Quite a few folks with their head in the sand. This isn't a simple hit piece...too much risk of legal action. Too many names, and very close to home for some. I see nothing wrong with calling things the way that they are. I think it is funny that I posted about the same corrupt business dealings before the article and some just called it sour grapes. All it takes is one zealous IRS investigator and this becomes much uglier, even if there are some false aspects of the article.

I wondered when you'd bring this up, understandably so by th way. My issues with Jerry are not so much the business side but the way in which he treats people and seems to foster a culture of fear which is never healthy.

But what bothers me the most is how he publically passed all responsibility on spiritual leadership because he has never been a pastor. He is the leader in all aspects whether he likes it or not. If he isn't willing to be that leader it's probably time to step down.

[chris leedlelee]

Two things can be true at once:

1) Jerry is an excellent businessman. Liberty would not have $3 billion in assets and be a nationally prominent school without his work on behalf of LU. In this way, he has advanced the Christian mission by advancing a flailing Christian school this far.

2) Jerry has an ego and other poor leadership qualities that you wouldn't desire in a leader of a Christian organization.

[thepostman]

Two things can be true at once:

1) Jerry is an excellent businessman. Liberty would not have $3 billion in assets and be a nationally prominent school without his work on behalf of LU. In this way, he has advanced the Christian mission by advancing a flailing Christian school this far.

2) Jerry has an ego and other poor leadership qualities that you wouldn't desire in a leader of a Christian organization.

This is a great summary of my thoughts as well.

[Jonathan Carone]

To those who think this is fake news or illegitimate anonymous sources:

How do you rationalize the lies Jerry was caught in when it was just the reporter and Jerry in the conversation?

[Purple Haize]

Quite a few folks with their head in the sand. This isn't a simple hit piece...too much risk of legal action. Too many names, and very close to home for some. I see nothing wrong with calling things the way that they are. I think it is funny that I posted about the same corrupt business dealings before the article and some just called it sour grapes. All it takes is one zealous IRS investigator and this becomes much uglier, even if there are some false aspects of the article.

I was thinking the same thing

[ATrain]

Quite a few folks with their head in the sand. This isn't a simple hit piece...too much risk of legal action. Too many names, and very close to home for some. I see nothing wrong with calling things the way that they are. I think it is funny that I posted about the same corrupt business dealings before the article and some just called it sour grapes. All it takes is one zealous IRS investigator and this becomes much uglier, even if there are some false aspects of the article.

I was thinking the same thing

Fortunately no one at the IRS has the time or resources right now - if Kamala Harris gets in the White House though, all bets are off (and I pray she never gets in there except as a guest of the POTUS).

[Purple Haize]

Hi friends. I love LU. When the school does something shoddy, it bothers me deeply. I’m a current employee, and my association with LU goes back to the late 80’s. I want to stay employed here; I’d like to stay in Lynchburg and retire from LU. I don’t know if that will be possible after I post this, because it wouldn’t surprise me if a mole works for Sea of Red and I’ll somehow get traced. We know they monitor our every move while we’re on campus, if not elsewhere. Yes, people are scared to talk here; the Politico article was right about that.

The rest of the article may be accurate, or it may be another hit-piece; I lean toward the former even though I can’t speak to LU’s financial or political dealings. But I can confirm that there is ongoing unethical (fraudulent is what I would call it if I were paying tuition) activity in the academic arm of the school, and I won’t be surprised when that exposé hits the papers. When it does, accreditation will no doubt be at risk.

Everyone who loves LU should be very, very concerned. However, unless they catch Jerry in a Weinstein-type scandal, or until SACS digs deeper and discovers the academic malpractice, nothing here will change.

I have no agenda, and I hold no bitterness, but my conscience has bothered me for years. Today’s article gave me a strong shove from behind. I guess that’s why I posted this. And I feel guilty for doing so.

Cheers.

SACS accreditation is harder to get than keep. Once you get it, losing it becomes difficult. Look at the recent UNC scandal Grade changing and manipulation goes back a long long way at the University so I wouldn’t hang my hat on those hopes

[ballah09]

probably right on SACS but maybe when they lose their tax exemption (real possibility) it will prompt some change.

[House on fire]

As much as it pains me as an alum, there is way too much here to ignore. There's no denying it's a hit piece on Jr., 100% factual or not. And there isn't much denying that it is aimed at Jr. because his claim has been staked outside of current cultural norms. But that is why Scripture exhorts us to be "shrewd as serpents and innocent as doves". Jesus isn't pulling punches - He is telling the disciples persecution is coming simply for following Him, so their houses better be in order.
The article isn't attacking Jerry Jr. for opposing modern morals. It's a laundry list of behaviors rooted in pride; even if some of it is exaggerated, it's not good or appropriate for a Christian regardless of their role. Would they be airing the same things for someone from the other side? No. But that's the point. They aren't the ones shouting "Family Values!" while doing the opposite behind closed doors.
I also think it's significant that the article steers clear of LU itself, outside the involvement of Jr., even painting Jonathan in a fairly favorable, if pitiable light. The target seems to be Jr. and not the school. I get that taking down one has a massive impact on the other, but there was more that could have been included if that were the goal.
Hopefully the board responds or this gives employees the freedom to speak up without feeling isolated.
But sadly, I fear not much will change.

[jinxy]

Correct me if im wrong. Was the writer not a student during several of our eras (maybe 2005 ish) I texted a buddy to see but i def remember this kid and i felt like he was disciplined for being gay ??. That doesnt mean there is no truth but he tries to play the white hat using a moral compass when its actually a revenge piece. It just makes me question whats true and what isnt when the authors frame of reference isnt disclosed properly.

I actually didnt see anything new there though i gad forgotten about jonathans role after sr passing.

I have no problem with the RE deals having fun tioned in that industry for a decade that type of stuff is prevalent everywhere and likely greatly exaggerated.

My main 2 points of contention with jr is giving the blank check endorsement to DT and the party lifestyle while trying to cover it up. You cant give a blanket endorsement to any person in life. Were all fallible. Its also struck me wrong that the leader isnt willing to live by codes that employees and students are asked to live by. Even worse when its your kids doing it while being promoted.

We just need jr to be above this kind of garbage like house of fire said. When you tread so closely you open the door for criticism.

[ballah09]

Brandon did go to Liberty and is gay but he always defended Liberty. There is a story on YouTube where he defends Liberty and how accepting they were of him.

[House on fire]

Brandon did go to Liberty and is gay but he always defended Liberty. There is a story on YouTube where he defends Liberty and how accepting they were of him.

I was going to mention his prior support of the school despite the obvious disagreement, but couldn't recall if the author was the same. Thanks for mentioning it.

[Just John]

All that information is written to be as negative as possible and is not even close to being accurate. Trey wasn't even employed by Liberty when Tourism was formed as a partnership with Liberty. Amazing how they can twist stuff when they want to...

I don't believe anything in the story. It came from Polutico, (a far left communist rag) and interestingly enough was coordinated with other media outlets who have had Liberty in the sights for a long time.

Anyone who doesn't see the Soros puppet strings here is willfully blind.

The dirtbag media lies. On a daily basis. This is a coordinated hit piece by people who hate President Trump and Liberty University.

The people (some on this board included) who want Liberty to morph into a "progressive" abortion and sodomite "accepting" institution are willing to believe whatever the media trash throws at the wall. They don't need anything other than a fiction account purported to be news to latch on to so they can push their own agenda.

The real issue here is the lying media. The media needs to lose its NY Times v. Sullivan protection. Until that happens, nothing will change.

Just about every word of this is nonsense. I had a friend tell me yesterday that if HRC was elected we would be in reeducation camps today because we are Christians. I like this guy but this kind of rhetoric is just nonsense

I'm very conservative, never voted for a Democrat in my life, and my daughter is named after Ronald Reagan. If we are to be taken seriously and try to win people's minds over to our side, we have to be rational.

[Just John]

This one's a slippery one right here. I think there's a big difference in being proud of your sex life with your wife and “all he wanted to talk about was how he would nail his wife, how she couldn’t handle [his penis size], and stuff of that sort" or sending people "a photo of his wife wearing what appeared to be a French maid costume, according to a longtime Liberty employee with firsthand knowledge of the image and the fallout that followed."

I feel like I just walked in on my parents doing it.

When the media says "a long time ______" "with firsthand knowledge" it's code for "we are writing fiction, but we want to pretend that we are journalists."

Go back 10-15 years, and the media NEVER wrote like that in news stories. That particular phrase developed around President Trump and the media's constant warfare with him, right about the time that they jettisoned any attempt to pretend to be objective.

Nixon and Reagan would be surprised to hear your theory.

Journalists have used unnamed sources forever.

[Just John]

yeah, no big or true story was ever garnered from anonymous sources.
I misunderestimated the team aspect of this whole thing. I thought we were all on team Liberty on this board. I didn't realize there was so many team Trumps.

Apparently if you aren't Team Trump you might be Team Soros,

[Just John]

I'll admit my bias up front...I'm not a Trump fan because of the baggage he brings, IMO, to conservatism and a total lack of character. That being said, people near and dear to be totally disagree and we respect each other...and avoid the subject. And it's not something I care to hash over in this post. My issues below have nothing to do with that.

Had a discussion today with a person who goes way back with LU, Doc, and Jerry Jr. Doc wasn't the best businessman, partly because he had a big heart for people and ministry Jr is a great businessman but in his own words, is about buildings and projects. I don't think there's any doubt that LU wouldn't be where it is today, financially or in infrastructure, without Jr. I do believe though we are now lacking in the heart and ministry department. Financial success can't be the only standard for success.

• I'm not bothered by what I read about the financial stuff. Small town stuff.

• I'm bothered by the John Gauger stuff. He openly admits he was paid to rig polls and Jr defended him. Clearly not The Liberty Way.

• I am bothered that Jr said students had more to do with the spiritual strength of the school then he does.

• I drink alcohol in moderation and do not think it's a sin. I do not run a school that fines students or prohibits faculty from doing so. I'm also bothered he played the "it must be photo-shopped" line until we see the picture.

• A well-placed staff member shared with me last week some of the same things Third Base alluded to.

I love Liberty!!! Jr. has done a great job financially for LU. I want to see it prosper financially, hold to it's original vision spiritually, and win football games!!!!

[thepostman]

I think where I end up landing on this through talking to people and sifting through the fact from fiction of this article is this: liberty was always going to stay in the Falwell family. I just wish Jerry and Jonathan had equal authority, had that been done then maybe we wouldn't be discussing this at all. Maybe. That isn't how it played out and now Jerry has ultimate power and nobody will stand up to him out of fear or being DeMoss'd.

It's a shame and as cliche as it is, all I can do at this point is pray for Jerry. In the interactions I've had with him he always came off as a good guy. It just seems power and money has clouded his judgment. He certainly wouldn't be the first to fall into that. Some of the greatest men of the Bible did. The great thing is there is still time for him to come to the realization that God must come first. It is all of our responsibility to do that. Not just those in pastoral roles. I'm not perfect and certainly would never claim to be. It is easy to lose site of what is truly important.

Maybe this will be the first step in showing Jerry this.

Who knows but all I know is God is still, for whatever reason, using Liberty for great things. Proof that God can use anything, despite our shortcomings.

[LUAlum1215]

I'll admit my bias up front...I'm not a Trump fan because of the baggage he brings, IMO, to conservatism and a total lack of character. That being said, people near and dear to be totally disagree and we respect each other...and avoid the subject. And it's not something I care to hash over in this post. My issues below have nothing to do with that.

Had a discussion today with a person who goes way back with LU, Doc, and Jerry Jr. Doc wasn't the best businessman, partly because he had a big heart for people and ministry Jr is a great businessman but in his own words, is about buildings and projects. I don't think there's any doubt that LU wouldn't be where it is today, financially or in infrastructure, without Jr. I do believe though we are now lacking in the heart and ministry department. Financial success can't be the only standard for success.

• I'm not bothered by what I read about the financial stuff. Small town stuff.

• I'm bothered by the John Gauger stuff. He openly admits he was paid to rig polls and Jr defended him. Clearly not The Liberty Way.

• I am bothered that Jr said students had more to do with the spiritual strength of the school then he does.

• I drink alcohol in moderation and do not think it's a sin. I do not run a school that fines students or prohibits faculty from doing so. I'm also bothered he played the "it must be photo-shopped" line until we see the picture.

• A well-placed staff member shared with me last week some of the same things Third Base alluded to.

I love Liberty!!! Jr. has done a great job financially for LU. I want to see it prosper financially, hold to it's original vision spiritually, and win football games!!!!

This is not correct. Faculty/employees are no longer forbidden to consume alcohol. They will face disciplinary action if they come to work under the influence, and are required to notify HR of any criminal charge against them involving drugs/alcohol, but the handbook does not specifically say they cannot use alcohol.

[olldflame]

I'll admit my bias up front...I'm not a Trump fan because of the baggage he brings, IMO, to conservatism and a total lack of character. That being said, people near and dear to be totally disagree and we respect each other...and avoid the subject. And it's not something I care to hash over in this post. My issues below have nothing to do with that.

Had a discussion today with a person who goes way back with LU, Doc, and Jerry Jr. Doc wasn't the best businessman, partly because he had a big heart for people and ministry Jr is a great businessman but in his own words, is about buildings and projects. I don't think there's any doubt that LU wouldn't be where it is today, financially or in infrastructure, without Jr. I do believe though we are now lacking in the heart and ministry department. Financial success can't be the only standard for success.

• I'm not bothered by what I read about the financial stuff. Small town stuff.

• I'm bothered by the John Gauger stuff. He openly admits he was paid to rig polls and Jr defended him. Clearly not The Liberty Way.

• I am bothered that Jr said students had more to do with the spiritual strength of the school then he does.

• I drink alcohol in moderation and do not think it's a sin. I do not run a school that fines students or prohibits faculty from doing so. I'm also bothered he played the "it must be photo-shopped" line until we see the picture.

• A well-placed staff member shared with me last week some of the same things Third Base alluded to.

I love Liberty!!! Jr. has done a great job financially for LU. I want to see it prosper financially, hold to it's original vision spiritually, and win football games!!!!

This is not correct. Faculty/employees are no longer forbidden to consume alcohol. They will face disciplinary action if they come to work under the influence, and are required to notify HR of any criminal charge against them involving drugs/alcohol, but the handbook does not specifically say they cannot use alcohol.

Appreciate the update. That is certainly a major change, and extremely relevant. No real need to ask why it has been done quietly and without fanfare. I have no problem with it personally (although I'm pretty sure our founder would) but I'm wondering how they can justify continuing to prohibit alcohol consumption for students who are of legal age.

[Jonathan Carone]

We hashed this one out a few months ago. There's some definite lawyer language to make the change happen without coming right out and saying it's okay for staff to do it. Most staff are still unaware they're allowed.

[ballcoach15]

All political polls are rigged one way or the other. Heck, I saw a poll that said some woman named Hillary would win presidential election back in 2016.
I received a phone call from a pollster once during election year for Senate. This was a liberal pollster, who tried to put answers to his questions in my head. I told him where he and his candidate could go, and I would never vote for a democrat. Haven't received anymore pollster calls.

[ATrain]

Correct me if im wrong. Was the writer not a student during several of our eras (maybe 2005 ish) I texted a buddy to see but i def remember this kid and i felt like he was disciplined for being gay ??. That doesnt mean there is no truth but he tries to play the white hat using a moral compass when its actually a revenge piece. It just makes me question whats true and what isnt when the authors frame of reference isnt disclosed properly.

I actually didnt see anything new there though i gad forgotten about jonathans role after sr passing.

I have no problem with the RE deals having fun tioned in that industry for a decade that type of stuff is prevalent everywhere and likely greatly exaggerated.

My main 2 points of contention with jr is giving the blank check endorsement to DT and the party lifestyle while trying to cover it up. You cant give a blanket endorsement to any person in life. Were all fallible. Its also struck me wrong that the leader isnt willing to live by codes that employees and students are asked to live by. Even worse when its your kids doing it while being promoted.

We just need jr to be above this kind of garbage like house of fire said. When you tread so closely you open the door for criticism.

To answer the question about Brandon, yes he is gay. There was someone who outted him and a guy that he was close to to the dean of men, and as far as I'm aware they weren't exactly disciplined but did end up moving off campus. Here's the story about it:

https://www.theatlantic.com/sexes/archi ... ty/274578/

[ballcoach15]

In my opinion LU staff should not drink alcoholic beverages. Sets a bad example.

And if they do illegal drugs, they should be fired immediately.