[RagingTireFire]

The bottom line is if you're going to carry a concealed weapon, you are -- at least in theory -- prepared to use it. That is, you are prepared to shoot somebody. That is, at best, an extreme solution to a problem the campus simply does not have, so why is it such a good idea?

VT didn't have a problem before April 16th either.

Clearly, VT did have a problem before April 16th. For whatever reason, they didn't address it.

Do people have to die here at LU before you will consider it an issue?

Right now, I think Liberty has a far greater issue than VT ever did. At Liberty, there are people actively campaigning for the right to be able to shoot people.

[asforme]

The bottom line is if you're going to carry a concealed weapon, you are -- at least in theory -- prepared to use it. That is, you are prepared to shoot somebody. That is, at best, an extreme solution to a problem the campus simply does not have, so why is it such a good idea?

VT didn't have a problem before April 16th either.

Clearly, VT did have a problem before April 16th. For whatever reason, they didn't address it.

Do people have to die here at LU before you will consider it an issue?

Right now, I think Liberty has a far greater issue than VT ever did. At Liberty, there are people actively campaigning for the right to be able to shoot people.

There are over 30,000 students nation wide campaigning for the right to CARRY on campus. There are 450 at LU.

But there is a great problem at Liberty, at Liberty there are people actively campaigning to make sure that anyone who wants to go on a killing spree on campus will be able to do safely and uninterrupted.

How you can even possibly suggest that allowing law abiding students to provide for their own defense could be more dangerous than allowing a mass murderer to methodically execute students uninterrupted amazes me.

[SuperJon]

Here's the thing you fail to realize, and it's the difference in us and VT. At Liberty, people in the dorms (which Cho was part of) are forced to interact with each other at least four times a week. If someone was as mentally screwed up as Cho, someone would know about it. I hate to use this example, but it's the same reasoning BJ Williams was called into the dean's office for something that was said on here. Someone saw it and told someone about it and we took an active approach at making sure there wasn't a problem. At a state school, or a school that isn't Liberty, people just leave other people alone and the one's like Cho are just overlooked. It's nearly impossible to overlook that here.

[BJWilliams]

Ive stayed away from this topic for the most part (especially considering what happened to me a few weeks ago) but I will offer my opinion.

I do think that there is a place for allowing people to be able to possess concealed weapons on this campus. After an event like VT I do think that people oughjt to be able to defend themselves. I do also however see the concern of those who are against such things. Do I think that there are people who are not responsible enough to carry a handgun? Yes. Do I think that there are people who could "fool their way" through all that bureaucracy and get a permit? Most definitely, we are all human and we make mistakes or use questionable judgement or faulty logic or what have you. I think there is a place for this sort of thing but I also think that it would need to be properly evaluated and all the facts and statistics for or against need to be considered. I personally would not want it to have to come to something like what happened at VT to determine whether or not something like this is a good idea, and do hope it never ever comes to that. I do think that students ought to be able to defend themselves and that further safety enhancements should be at the top of any list (including lights) though.

[RagingTireFire]

But there is a great problem at Liberty, at Liberty there are people actively campaigning to make sure that anyone who wants to go on a killing spree on campus will be able to do safely and uninterrupted.

How you can even possibly suggest that allowing law abiding students to provide for their own defense could be more dangerous than allowing a mass murderer to methodically execute students uninterrupted amazes me.

I'm generally in favor of 2nd Amendment rights but if you're the future of the gun lobby, it's in serious trouble.

By your logic, we should all be carrying around a portable lightning rod -- just in case -- as well as vials of flu vaccine, snake anti-venom, an exposure kit, a cardiac defibulator, a snorkel tank, a card describing the Heimlich maneuver as well as encasing ourselves in some sort of breathable energy-dispersant foam in case of vehicle-related mishap since all of these things are exponentially more likely to kill you than a crazy coming to kill you at your school. You have a statistically better chance of spotting a UFO in the next 8 hours than you do of being killed in a school shooting.

[asforme]

But there is a great problem at Liberty, at Liberty there are people actively campaigning to make sure that anyone who wants to go on a killing spree on campus will be able to do safely and uninterrupted.

How you can even possibly suggest that allowing law abiding students to provide for their own defense could be more dangerous than allowing a mass murderer to methodically execute students uninterrupted amazes me.

I'm generally in favor of 2nd Amendment rights but if you're the future of the gun lobby, it's in serious trouble.

By your logic, we should all be carrying around a portable lightning rod -- just in case -- as well as vials of flu vaccine, snake anti-venom, an exposure kit, a cardiac defibulator, a snorkel tank, a card describing the Heimlich maneuver as well as encasing ourselves in some sort of breathable energy-dispersant foam in case of vehicle-related mishap since all of these things are exponentially more likely to kill you than a crazy coming to kill you at your school. You have a statistically better chance of spotting a UFO in the next 8 hours than you do of being killed in a school shooting.

Wrong, by my logic you have no business telling me I can't do any of those things. If I want to carry snake anti-venom and there is no legitimate justification against it, then it's none of your business. Just like if this were to pass it would be none of your business who is carrying, that's why it's concealed. If I want to make the choice to be able to defend myself from an attacker, it is not your right to tell me I can't just because you have some irrational fear of guns.

[SuperJon]

I don't have an irrational fear of guns. I have a rational fear of stupid people.

[ToTheLeft]

asforme, were you at Lucky Kitchen eating lunch today?

[RagingTireFire]

Wrong, by my logic you have no business telling me I can't do any of those things. If I want to carry snake anti-venom and there is no legitimate justification against it, then it's none of your business. Just like if this were to pass it would be none of your business who is carrying, that's why it's concealed. If I want to make the choice to be able to defend myself from an attacker, it is not your right to tell me I can't just because you have some irrational fear of guns.

There's a difference between tolerating your paranoia and accomodating it.

Hopefully, Liberty University will realize that it is under no obligation to do either.

[asforme]

asforme, were you at Lucky Kitchen eating lunch today?

Nope, never been there.

[ToTheLeft]

Okay, because I saw someone in Liberty apparel with their gun hanging from a holster on their hip while eating lunch with his family... was just curious.

[hurricane fan]

If anyone wants to carry a gun and protect campus from crime, I am sure LUPD would accept your application.

[asforme]

Okay, because I saw someone in Liberty apparel with their gun hanging from a holster on their hip while eating lunch with his family... was just curious.

Well I'm not the only one, there are quite a few of us at LU who have permits and carry elsewhere in Lynchburg.

[JDUB]

If anyone wants to carry a gun and protect campus from crime, I am sure LUPD would accept your application.

by protect from crime you mean fly across campus on a regular basis with lights and siren to watch the other 8 officers who got there before you put out a piece of notebook paper that caught on fire?

[hurricane fan]

If anyone wants to carry a gun and protect campus from crime, I am sure LUPD would accept your application.

by protect from crime you mean fly across campus on a regular basis with lights and siren to watch the other 8 officers who got there before you put out a piece of notebook paper that caught on fire?

I would rather that happen than to give a bunch of students permission to carry guns on campus. I see the decision making of most students around here on a daily basis and letting them legally have a gun doesn't make me feel safer.

Along the lines of what SJ said, I would be interested to see how parents feel about this. Or how you would feel as a parent? And before you answer, you can't.....you're not a parent.

[LUconn]

I would rather that happen than to give a bunch of students permission to carry guns on campus. I see the decision making of most students around here on a daily basis and letting them legally have a gun doesn't make me feel safer.

I really haven't read the whole thread but I'm sure it's already been said that the students you're talking about wouldn't have this permit. You can't hold the large majority of stupid students against the responsible ones just because they're all students. If this same retard student you're so afraid of were somehow able to obtain this permit, they wouldn't be able to carry on campus but he's still legally allowed to be packing many many other public places that you go to. I think most of you are just against people having guns outside their homes in general. Just come out and say that.

[JDUB]

i think the amount of people who would get this permit is much smaller than most of you think. i can see the reasoning of both sides of this though and i agree that guns in the dorms is a bad idea, but i dont have a problem with commuters and faculty/staff carrying. according to the law if they are able to obtain the permit they are legally mature and able enough to carry a concealed weapon safely, so if you disagree maybe you should write congress to change the law

[SuperJon]

Would the number of people this would please outweigh the number of people who don't feel this is a good idea?

[JDUB]

i think that is why its going before the board. to decide if that is the case or not

[SuperJon]

I agree completely.

I guess my question is if the overwhelming majority on campus don't feel like this is a good idea, including the board, will the people that are pushing this continue to complain about it and throw it in our faces constantly or will they accept the decision and move on?

[newandimproved]

aside from my feelings against guns on campus...I can't see this being a good move for a university trying to grow from a PR stand point...now I know LU prides itself in being politically incorrect since 1971 and all that stuff...but this would be a PR nightmare and I know parents would not feel comfortable sending their kids here...which will be probably the number one reason it does not pass...I do hope through this more attention is taken when it comes to campus safety...if you gun holder truly care about safety and not just about carrying a gun then I would hope you would come up with other ideas as well...but I am sure this is your only answer...guns...

and i will say this again...if you want to carry a gun around town to make yourself feel safe, so be it...its your right and I would not even dream of taking away a constitutional right...but LU is a private university that takes many rights away from its students....

[Kolzilla41]

4 pages later. and JDUB, that Shatner clip was awesome!

[JDUB]

haha yeah it was. i think ultimately this will be shot down just for the sake of not wanting negative PR. i guess we'll have to wait until march to see though

[portapost]

Right now, I think Liberty has a far greater issue than VT ever did. At Liberty, there are people actively campaigning for the right to be able to shoot people.

Do you have issue with a police officer shooting a gunman (one that is actively murdering innocents) to prevent him from harming more innocents?

Would you have issue with an armed civilian shooting a gunman (one that is actively murdering innocents) to prevent him from harming more innocents?

Note that I did not mention location, because I do not believe location matters when it comes to defending life (even though I do follow the rules and laws that prevent me from being prepared to defend life in some locations).

You must understand (and I think you do not), that gunmen--those mad, crazy kind that actually use firearms in aggressive ways--do not mind your No Guns sign. They do not, ever, take heed to your Gun Free Zone mantra. If they did, the sign, the policy, the "feeling" of safety, would keep everyone safe--and it does not.

However, people that are good--those that have not committed felonies, and those that have proven over at least the course of 21 years to be responsible citizens, will in fact, almost all of the time, obey your No Gun sign, or your No Gun policy. You see, it doesn't matter what you say--Murder is illegal, but saying "No Murder" doesn't make us safe. It makes us feel safe, but feeling safe isn't real safety. I feel safe when I put my seat belt on in an airplane, but am I really safe? No, I'm in a large metal tube flying at 400MPh, 35,000 feet above the ground. If something goes horribly wrong, the only thing that might help me, given that I am properly trained and I can execute a few key maneuvers without issue, is a parachute. That seat belt will just make sure that I die in my seat, and not 400 feet away from it.

Label it what you will, but I'm fairly certain you're already OK with police officers shooting bad guys, which means you're in favor of the right of people to be able to shoot people too.

I'm in favor of good citizens (as defined by Virginia law, and the laws of those states we have reciprocity with) carrying firearms that they may indeed have to use some day, Jesus forbid, to shoot a mad man that has lost all respect for life, and is perpetrating pure evil on innocent people.

[portapost]

If anyone wants to carry a gun and protect campus from crime, I am sure LUPD would accept your application.

by protect from crime you mean fly across campus on a regular basis with lights and siren to watch the other 8 officers who got there before you put out a piece of notebook paper that caught on fire?

I would rather that happen than to give a bunch of students permission to carry guns on campus. I see the decision making of most students around here on a daily basis and letting them legally have a gun doesn't make me feel safer.

Along the lines of what SJ said, I would be interested to see how parents feel about this. Or how you would feel as a parent? And before you answer, you can't.....you're not a parent.

Yeah, speeding LUPD officers in large 2 to 3 ton cars (that can themselves be used to do an extreme bit of damage) sounds wonderful. Let's have more!