[pbow]

A stricter dress code would change the culture of Liberty. You cannot deny that. You're saying that someone leaving because they disliked part of the culture is immature. With that being said, I left Coastal because I didn't like the culture of the school. Are you in turn saying I'm immature for leaving Coastal?

Youre missing the point. Its about submitting to authority, and if they cant do that they shouldnt be here.

Call me crazy but I don't think that's what Jerry had in mind when he decided to let people into Liberty who weren't Christians. You pretty much make it sound like anyone who doesn't submit to authority all the time (which i'm pretty sure all of us have problems with) should leave this school. That sounds pretty screwed up to me.

Not trying to be hateful, but the attitude you and TTL have about people who break some of the rules here pretty much disgusts me. Calling someone rebellious because they're out of dress code is seems pretty bold to me. I feel like that's the kind of attitude that makes some people hate Liberty and Christians in general.

[pbow]

I follow the rules as much as I can and I feel cheated when I see someone walk into class in a T-Shirt, a Hat, and a lip ring, and I know that if I wore my Bucs jersey and no collared shirt someone would pull me aside. (and not just because its the Bucs).

I think you guys are being really selfish.

Yea one of your reasonings for people following the rules doesn't seem selfish at all to me.

[ToTheLeft]

A stricter dress code would change the culture of Liberty. You cannot deny that. You're saying that someone leaving because they disliked part of the culture is immature. With that being said, I left Coastal because I didn't like the culture of the school. Are you in turn saying I'm immature for leaving Coastal?

Youre missing the point. Its about submitting to authority, and if they cant do that they shouldnt be here.

Call me crazy but I don't think that's what Jerry had in mind when he decided to let people into Liberty who weren't Christians. You pretty much make it sound like anyone who doesn't submit to authority all the time (which i'm pretty sure all of us have problems with) should leave this school. That sounds pretty screwed up to me.

Not trying to be hateful, but the attitude you and TTL have about people who break some of the rules here pretty much disgusts me. Calling someone rebellious because they're out of dress code is seems pretty bold to me. I feel like that's the kind of attitude that makes some people hate Liberty and Christians in general.

So we should be okay with people breaking the rules because they aren't Christian, or don't agree with them?

We are here to train Champions for Christ. That means submitting to authority... Give to Caesar what is Caesars...

And Christians will be hated... that's the nature of this beast. We are different, and offensive to people who live in the dark. I think thats what makes people hate Christians. If you hate me for taking a stand on people following the rules and submitting to authority, then hate away. "Consider it pure joy when you face trials..."

[SuperJon]

Jon, if you had to go to a convo would you transfer? I mean coming from someone who hasnt ever had a curfew or a convo check or a room check Im not sure how much you can complain about the rules here.

I wouldn't be here if I wasn't allowed to live off campus my first semester. I refused to live on campus and never could have.

[pbow]

Youre missing the point. Its about submitting to authority, and if they cant do that they shouldnt be here.

Call me crazy but I don't think that's what Jerry had in mind when he decided to let people into Liberty who weren't Christians. You pretty much make it sound like anyone who doesn't submit to authority all the time (which i'm pretty sure all of us have problems with) should leave this school. That sounds pretty screwed up to me.

Not trying to be hateful, but the attitude you and TTL have about people who break some of the rules here pretty much disgusts me. Calling someone rebellious because they're out of dress code is seems pretty bold to me. I feel like that's the kind of attitude that makes some people hate Liberty and Christians in general.

So we should be okay with people breaking the rules because they aren't Christian, or don't agree with them?

We are here to train Champions for Christ. That means submitting to authority... Give to Caesar what is Caesars...

And Christians will be hated... that's the nature of this beast. We are different, and offensive to people who live in the dark. I think thats what makes people hate Christians. If you hate me for taking a stand on people following the rules and submitting to authority, then hate away. "Consider it pure joy when you face trials..."

I'm not saying that we should be okay with people breaking the rules, i'm saying we shouldn't be complete a-holes about it. I know quite a few people who have come here unsaved and gotten saved while they attended here. Something is telling me that if they got in trouble and had to pay a fine everytime they did something wrong they wouldn't be as inclined to buy into Jerry's awesome vision for LU and through that come to know and have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ.

[SuperJon]

I have a huge problem with the way the reprimand system works but we won't even get into that.

[pbow]

I have a huge problem with the way the reprimand system works but we won't even get into that.

amen to that

[TylerBakersGonnaBGreat]

Jon, if you had to go to a convo would you transfer? I mean coming from someone who HAS PRIDED THEMSELVES ON NEVER HAVING TO BE ON TIME FOR a curfew or GO TO A convo or HAVE a room check Im not sure how much you can complain about the rules here.

Fixed it for you

[ToTheLeft]

How is enforcing the rules being an A-hole about it?

And I am really not as concerned with non-Christians breaking the rules as I am with "Christians" who have such issues obeying authority. But regardless, Christian or not, there are rules, and you follow them.

But as for non-Christians being turned off, I think they would be more turned off if we just lived the way they do. Why change if there is no change to be made.

If it's Christian, it should be better.

Salt of the Earth.

So much Bible I can use to defend my point, where is the Bible to defend yours? I mean, I am all about speaking the truth in love. If an RA or RD or SLD tells someone they are worthless or stupid or otherwise demeans or upsets them if they confront them with a rules issue, thats that persons fault, not the school's fault. But if someone breaks a rule, they need to be held accountable. It should be spoken with love, tho.

[TylerBakersGonnaBGreat]

How is enforcing the rules being an A-hole about it?

And I am really not as concerned with non-Christians breaking the rules as I am with "Christians" who have such issues obeying authority. But regardless, Christian or not, there are rules, and you follow them.

But as for non-Christians being turned off, I think they would be more turned off if we just lived the way they do. Why change if there is no change to be made.

If it's Christian, it should be better.

Salt of the Earth.

So much Bible I can use to defend my point, where is the Bible to defend yours? I mean, I am all about speaking the truth in love. If an RA or RD or SLD tells someone they are worthless or stupid or otherwise demeans or upsets them if they confront them with a rules issue, thats that persons fault, not the school's fault. But if someone breaks a rule, they need to be held accountable. It should be spoken with love, tho.

Wont....Say....It....Again....


AHHHH I AGR...I AGR.... Something like that

[Sly Fox]

I'm glad to see the discussion has been kept relatively civil without too many shots at the school. I am all for open dialogue but let's be careful not to fall into a trap of ripping the Liberty Way for funsies.

[Schfourteenteen]

A stricter dress code would change the culture of Liberty. You cannot deny that. You're saying that someone leaving because they disliked part of the culture is immature. With that being said, I left Coastal because I didn't like the culture of the school. Are you in turn saying I'm immature for leaving Coastal?

Youre missing the point. Its about submitting to authority, and if they cant do that they shouldnt be here.

Call me crazy but I don't think that's what Jerry had in mind when he decided to let people into Liberty who weren't Christians. You pretty much make it sound like anyone who doesn't submit to authority all the time (which i'm pretty sure all of us have problems with) should leave this school. That sounds pretty screwed up to me.

Not trying to be hateful, but the attitude you and TTL have about people who break some of the rules here pretty much disgusts me. Calling someone rebellious because they're out of dress code is seems pretty bold to me. I feel like that's the kind of attitude that makes some people hate Liberty and Christians in general.

I think youve missed it too. I never mentioned "not being a Christian" because my focus isnt on them. Its on everyone who doesnt abide by the rules set in front of them. About the dress code, it isnt being out of dress code, because being out of dress code means nothing in of itself. Its the fact that so many students, including Christians, those who think they are, and those who know they arent, knowingly break the rules and expect to get away with it, and complain about the rules when they dont. Its the people who feel as if they have the right to promote change in a system theyve never really followed.

I am rebellious if an RA tells me Im out of dress code and I refuse to change. Change your conduct or change your name. And just so you my friends dont mix this up its not about a shirt with a collar or cigerette or time you need to be home. Its about submitting to our authority, something we should do in order to make us better people. Wearing a nice shirt doesnt make you a better person, but following the rules and guidelines placed in front of you does.

Most people hate Christians because we arent real. Because we cut the same corners everyone else does. Because we claim to follow a book that we dont read. Because we claim to love others as ourselves and yet someone else facing hell never breaks any of us.

[TylerBakersGonnaBGreat]

I'm glad to see the discussion has been kept relatively civil without too many shots at the school. I am all for open dialogue but let's be careful not to fall into a trap of ripping the Liberty Way for funsies.

Yes Daaaaaaad

[ToTheLeft]

Funsies?

That word kinda creeps me out...

[SuperJon]

Its about submitting to our authority, something we should do in order to make us better people.

You guys keep saying the Bible says submit to authority. However, doesn't it also say something about obeying the laws of the land, but to challenge them when you feel they are wrong? The ones are here complaining about them are the ones who obey curfew, obey the dress code, obey the other rules, etc. We respect the authority, respect the rules, but feel that they are wrong and challenge the basis of them.

[pbow]

Yea it makes a lot of sense that when a college student breaks the rules that there punishment is having to pay money to someone...and good luck finding any male RA who gives out reps "with love."

[ToTheLeft]

Its about submitting to our authority, something we should do in order to make us better people.

You guys keep saying the Bible says submit to authority. However, doesn't it also say something about obeying the laws of the land, but to challenge them when you feel they are wrong? The ones are here complaining about them are the ones who obey curfew, obey the dress code, obey the other rules, etc. We respect the authority, respect the rules, but feel that they are wrong and challenge the basis of them.

I don't remember it saying challenege them when they are wrong.

I know that the laws of man should never contradict the Law of God, and if that is the case you should follow the laws of God.

But you will need to chapter and verse me with the reference you gave...

[SuperJon]

I'm not looking it up for you. There's no point. You're set in stone on your "submit to authority" thing. You always have been, even when the authority is in the wrong. Just look back to the HPU game issue. I'm sorry I don't have the entire Bible memorized.


Edit: Before I get an angry IM or PM, what I said was saying that you have your opinion, and I have mine. I'm not saying either one is right, just that we disagree fundamentally. Please do not flip out on me over what I just said.

[ToTheLeft]

I'm not looking it up for you. There's no point. You're set in stone on your "submit to authority" thing. You always have been, even when the authority is in the wrong. Just look back to the HPU game issue. I'm sorry I don't have the entire Bible memorized.


Edit: Before I get an angry IM or PM, what I said was saying that you have your opinion, and I have mine. I'm not saying either one is right, just that we disagree fundamentally. Please do not flip out on me over what I just said.

Romans 13:1-5

1 Everyone must submit to governing authorities. For all authority comes from God, and those in positions of authority have been placed there by God. 2 So anyone who rebels against authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and they will be punished. 3 For the authorities do not strike fear in people who are doing right, but in those who are doing wrong. Would you like to live without fear of the authorities? Do what is right, and they will honor you. 4 The authorities are God’s servants, sent for your good. But if you are doing wrong, of course you should be afraid, for they have the power to punish you. They are God’s servants, sent for the very purpose of punishing those who do what is wrong. 5 So you must submit to them, not only to avoid punishment, but also to keep a clear conscience.

[ToTheLeft]

1 Timothy 2:1-2

1 I urge you, first of all, to pray for all people. Ask God to help them; intercede on their behalf, and give thanks for them. 2 Pray this way for kings and all who are in authority so that we can live peaceful and quiet lives marked by godliness and dignity

[ToTheLeft]

From the commentary found... http://bibletools.org/index.cfm/fuseact ... hority.htm

Romans 13:1-2

Of course, God's spiritual law is of prime importance and takes precedence over all other law. As Peter said, "We ought to obey God rather than men" (Acts 5:29) when a conflict between the two occurs. Though breaking man's laws may not always be sin, a rebellious attitude against what God appoints over us will in time lead to transgressing God's law. One who will not submit to law in one area will not submit to it in others.

[jmdickens]

I just don't remember God ever setting a curfew or a dress code.....

Yeah, those are LU's (I mean man's rules), therefore I broke them, b/c I believe God could care less.....TTL, it sounds like you are placing the same level of authority on the Liberty Way that you would give the Bible. Look at all change throughout history, there was revolution and disregard for authority.....

[SuperJon]

No one said we were not submitting to authority. We're all obeying the rules. We just disagree with them so we are challenging them. No one said we were going against them. While they are the rules, we will follow them. We just don't agree with them. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. To say otherwise is about as legalistic as it gets.

From your statements, you should never go 1mph over the speed limit, and I know for a fact that you do. If you're going to say that, you better live it completely.

[Rocketfan]

Let me summarize this whole thread..... ........

[PAmedic]

Romans 13:1-5

1 Everyone must submit to governing authorities. For all authority comes from God, and those in positions of authority have been placed there by God. 2 So anyone who rebels against authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and they will be punished. 3 For the authorities do not strike fear in people who are doing right, but in those who are doing wrong. Would you like to live without fear of the authorities? Do what is right, and they will honor you. 4 The authorities are God’s servants, sent for your good. But if you are doing wrong, of course you should be afraid, for they have the power to punish you. They are God’s servants, sent for the very purpose of punishing those who do what is wrong. 5 So you must submit to them, not only to avoid punishment, but also to keep a clear conscience.

Thank God you weren't around in 1776.

Get back to me in 5 years when you are in the working world and President Obama of the USSA has just enacted his 75% income tax so we can re-train everyone to speak Spanish and give free healthcare to those who don't feel it necessary to earn a living.

I'm sure you'll be very supportive of our government. Since God told him to do all that.

[/sarcasm]