[A.G.]

AG, get off of Haize's jock for a minute. It doesn't make any sense. That would be a good plan if LU was asking the city to build it for them or if they gave a rip what the city thinks. But they don't and they shouldn't. Based on reading the letters to the editor, people around here are unreasonable. That last letter I posted, the guy was blatantly lying! One woman was concerned about the oxygen lost from the trees we cut down! And the sad thing is, they're serious. You can't reason with folk like this. Might as well do what ever the freak you want WITH YOUR OWN PROPERTY.

I don't disagree with the right to do what you want with your own property, but certainly there can be restrictions if your use impacts the rest of the community. Where they are putting it is an eyesore, in my opinion. A better location would be the part of the mountain right behind the football stadium--and it certainly would be less intrusive. As it stands now, it appears that JF is doing what others are accusing--MARKING HIS TURF--because he can lift his leg higher than the rest.

What I think the esteemed former professor is saying, is that there was a much better POLITCAL way to handle the whole thing. JF's advisors let him down on this one.

[Rocketfan]

AG, get off of Haize's jock for a minute. It doesn't make any sense. That would be a good plan if LU was asking the city to build it for them or if they gave a rip what the city thinks. But they don't and they shouldn't. Based on reading the letters to the editor, people around here are unreasonable. That last letter I posted, the guy was blatantly lying! One woman was concerned about the oxygen lost from the trees we cut down! And the sad thing is, they're serious. You can't reason with folk like this. Might as well do what ever the freak you want WITH YOUR OWN PROPERTY.

I don't disagree with the right to do what you want with your own property, but certainly there can be restrictions if your use impacts the rest of the community. Where they are putting it is an eyesore, in my opinion. A better location would be the part of the mountain right behind the football stadium--and it certainly would be less intrusive. As it stands now, it appears that JF is doing what others are accusing--MARKING HIS TURF--because he can lift his leg higher than the rest.

What I think the esteemed former professor is saying, is that there was a much better POLITCAL way to handle the whole thing. JF's advisors let him down on this one.

AG, your getting closer to his jock by the moment. I agree Haize was a great professor however i don't agree that we should have to bend over backwards for anyone in the community. No matter how many things we did people would still complain, even if it put $$$ back in there pockets they would complain.( and for a lot of businesses we do with all the $$$ students and staff spend in this community) Nothing we do can be seen as perfect in the community so its gotten to the point of why try. Behind the football stadium may have been too steep/rocky to place letters, i mean its not like you can back that statement up with anything but a vague opinion with no research ( as i am sure LU at least did a bit ) as being a better spot. The City "lifts its leg all the time" so why can't we?? See all the new BOX STORES that are still going in around here and we are getting duplicates because it brings in revenue. Also see the hundreds of homes ( over 1000 and counting ) that are planned for Bedford/Forest that we are clearing land for, who is going to be moving there, what new business have we recruited to bring high paying jobs so all those people can afford 300k+ homes?? Do you see ANYONE complaining about those trees...nope? People will find anyway possible to throw LU under the bus, and thats the bottom line.

[A.G.]

It's called Doing the Right Thing. I think you and LUconn are perpetuating the LU arroagnce folks in the area complain about. We shall agree to disagree.

[ALUmnus]

LU Arrogance? No, it's called we're tired of getting crapped on by retard nation. Like Luconn said, these people writing in are unreasonable, and think they represent more of the community than they actually do. I think the whole putting letters on the mountain is a stupid idea, I think it's a waste of money and very cheesy. But that's not for me to decide, and honestly it doesn't affect anyone in this community. They have to look at the thing, so what? LU had to look at a hideous Ericsson facility for years, and now we're making it somewhat attractive. Where's the thanks for that? Why don't we tell Jefferson Forest to go take down the big JF on the side of their building, it's obnoxious and offends me. How about the "fountain" in the downtown James river? Is that how LU should be beautifying Lynchburg? It's obvious that this community cares nothing about appearances, unless it involves Liberty, because Lynchburg is not an attractive city in the least.
And to complain about the placement? We own the land almost clear down to Campbell Avenue, eventually the LU will come down to make room for the school's growth (which is why I think it's a waste of money). So if you were to do something like this, that's pretty much the best spot to do it. Liberty cannot deal with this community politically like PH wants if it expects to grow as fast as it expects. The folks who hate us will always hate us, and the rest will get over it and move on to the next "outrage" on the mountain. The school is right to focus on its own interest and vision rather than get mixed up in the petty complaints of retard nation, which will never stop no matter how far we bend over for them.

[A.G.]

Haize--it's like beating our heads against a brick wall. I give up.

[Purple Haize]

For starters I wear compression shorts, not jocks

LU ROCKET and ALUM this is the type of attitude with which I speak. LU can do whatever they want with their land. That whole American liberty thing. What we are talking about is being a good neighbor. There are those who will hate LU no matter what they do, it is a given. I don't care about the reaction of others if Iknow I have done all I can. LU's attitude was "Let's break out the chainsaw' and sheets. If we don't like it, trees grow back don't they?"
For those of you who own a house, you have every right to plant 100K Christmas lights around your house. It will be very bright and if you keep them on all night chanes are you will disturb your neighbors. But if you talk to your neighbors and tell them your plans they may have a better suggestion. Some won't like it, but most will be glad you talked to them. Putting LU on the mountain will affect the entire community. Would it be so much to ask for them to have a plan as to what it would look like and let people know what was going to happen. We should NEVER stop trying to reach out and be good neighbors. Sure we will get pooped on from time to time (or alot) but does that mean we stop? Remember what the Bible says against unwarranted indignation.........its against it!!

[ishy]

That article was correct that this is common on other campus'. I happen to have been to Arizona State and seen their monogram. It's rather out of place in the gorgeous desert surroundings. It's almost an insult to their environment.

Even with the new DeMoss and other buildings, I don't think LU is the prettiest campus. I kinda wish they'd work on other areas of the campus before putting up a large, expensive monogram. And I'm not sure it's going to help make L. Mtn look any nicer either.

We all know that Dr. Falwell has a taste for the grandiose. That's part of who he is. And when he gets an idea, nobody is going to stop him from putting it into place, even his students and alumni.

[A.G.]

At these other schools it fits in to the back drop of the CAMPUS--not off to the side. Heck, I noticed the clear-cut area plain as day from over in Forest by the Graves Mill Center. Its an absolute freaking joke and embarassment. I hope the city tries to enforce the sign ordenance just out of spite.

[LUconn]

kinda like I hope we rename the mountain for the very same reason. Would you rather have a big spot of nothing that a sharp looking LU logo? Apparently.

As for being a good neighbor, I really don't think we could be any better. Ericcson looked like Danville. We're not even 50% finished with it and it looks great. The community takes advantage of the Vines Center when we approve the event as well as The Bill. We put on the only decent 4th of July event within 45 minutes. Tons of job are provided. Aside from all of the $$$ we contribute each student has to contribute 20 (I think it's 20) hours of community service per semester. I'd like to compare that to what LC is doing. I don't know but I'd doubt they do anything for the community. Oh well actually, they've made the area around memorial ave a real winner. I'm so glad I don't have to look at a big LC in that area. It would take away from the ghetto-like scenary. Why does this embarrass you? Are folks in Texas ashamed of their big orange tower? "Oh my gosh it's orange again tonight! Don't tell anyone I'm a Longhorn!" Why don't you guys have any school pride? If you think it's a waste of money, that's cool. But if this were given to us by the Hobby Lobby guy would you still be against it?

[El Scorcho]

At these other schools it fits in to the back drop of the CAMPUS--not off to the side.

It's only off to the side right now. There's a reason we own the entire mountain. Our campus will be expanding in that direction as the years march on. As for it being clear-cut, it's not done, nor will it be until the planned vegetation is installed and grown. Not that it will make anyone any more happy.

As a matter of taste, I don't really care for mountain monograms. However, as a matter of principle, in this city, and among a group of people for which LU can do nothing right, I say slap a big fat LU on the side of the mountain. It doesn't matter what LU does to reach out the community, all they ever get is venom back in their face. The local community (for the most part) resents LU because of it's founder and because of the growth that it's bringing to the town. That won't change for a long time.

[jimflamesfan]

PurpleHaize,

Liberty was consulting with city officials about the letters. A small number of people will always cause a fuss if anything new happens. People even complain about golf courses ruining natural beauty. Others think they preserve it.

But the truth is, LU didn't just "go out there with chainsaws" as you stated. They consulted with city officials before they started the project...there was an article in the paper, and we even discussed it here. But then, LU decided to temporarly decorate it for homecomming, and people just got in a fuss (including you, I guess...what's with the negativity about the letters and how the people are counted...could you name something LU has done recently that you agree with?). I actually thought the letters were a nice touch.

If you want a legitimate worry that no one has mentioned, one problem might be if someone messes with the letters. I'm from Johnstown, PA. And Johnstown High School, had a big boluder on a mountain near the school, they painted it blue with a black J (their school colors). (this isn't a new thing way to deface nature, schools do it all over, even highschools) I always thought it was a neat thing to see on the mountain.

But then, another school beat them in the football playoffs, and some students or alumni, or someone, they went up and defaced the rock and tried to turn it from a J for Johnstown into an M for Mccort, but it then looked ugly.

And it took them forever to fix it. So I like the letters, my concern is that they make sure they committ to preserving them...so if our homecomming opponent beats us next year, we don't see the LU changed into something bad.

[ATrain]

Didn't Dorm 8 change it into an 8?

[Purple Haize]

The point is it is a PR thing and they bungled it badly. Being away from LU I can only speak for the people I bump into and it didn't seem that there were a lot of people that knew what they were doing up there till the white sheets came out. Put yourself in their shoes. (That may even be Biblical, I'll have to find my Bible and check, it is around here somewhere!) You may or may not notice this huge patch of land cut away on the side of the mountain. No biggie, The next thing you know it looks like there was a freakin White's sale and Bed Bath and Beyond. And LU having the reputation for doing things 3/4 of the way, you are gonna think THAT is the final project. When it could mostly be headed off by "publishing" what the intent is. OF COURSE there are ALWAYS gonna be people upset with it. You can't worry about them. What you CAN worry about is what YOU do. Talking to a few city planners, posting here on Flamesfan and a small article (Which gets lost amid the IMAX, JerryWorld, Gays causing 9/11 stories) is NOT putting your best step forward. In fact even the LU powers that be have NO IDEA what the finished product is going to look like. Why start something that you don't know how you are gonna finish? was it THAT important to have LU up there for THIS years homecoming? Take some time, do it right and you would probably have it ready in time for graduation.
As for the money aspect, it does not bother me one way or the other. If Mr and Mrs H Lobby wanna give the money great. IF they want to take it out of the non existent operating budget fine. To me money is not the issue. Doing something the right way is.

[jimflamesfan]

OK. I understand your point now. You may be right about putting up the white sheets as being a PR mistake.

But I'm starting to gain confidence in LU doing things the right way. They did start enforcing the season tickets, checking people who had tickets, etc. People complained about the band leaving, and that info got through, and the band comes back earlier.

It seems to me like LU is trying harder as far as PR. Hopefully, they take the time to get it done right, and just maybe about a year from now will see a beautiful LU on the mountain, and people will say, gosh, that actually looks pretty nice!

[Purple Haize]

OK. I understand your point now. You may be right about putting up the white sheets as being a PR mistake.

But I'm starting to gain confidence in LU doing things the right way. They did start enforcing the season tickets, checking people who had tickets, etc. People complained about the band leaving, and that info got through, and the band comes back earlier.

It seems to me like LU is trying harder as far as PR. Hopefully, they take the time to get it done right, and just maybe about a year from now will see a beautiful LU on the mountain, and people will say, gosh, that actually looks pretty nice!

Hope, unlike SCAR's hair and PA's verticality, springs eternal

[SuperJon]

ATrain, that was a rumor I think. I drive past it all the time and never saw it.

[PeterParker]

I was about to post my .02, but Haize pretty much encapsulated my sentiments. PR has not exactly been an LU strong suit. LU would be prudent to consult with sympathizers outside of the bubble to get an accurate picture of how it's institutional decisions are really perceived outside of the LU bubble. It is easy for an organization to become enamored with itself when the entity refuses to bring other opinions to the table and dismisses any dissent/constructive criticism of a particular action as being not loyal or undermining. Oftentimes there is valuable information that can be gleaned from the push/pull of ideas if you allow yourself to be open to the discourse. Contrary to popular ultra-conservative belief, there is middle ground between the extremes of caring too much about outside opinion/perception and not giving a "rat's ***" about what others think. IMO, the road to future LU success would be much aided by it moving more toward the center of that equation.

[TDDance234]

That was not a rumor.

Dorm8 strikes again.

[SuperJon]

Did they make the LU into and 8 or just the dirt? I remember seeing something in the dirt but couldn't tell what it was.

[01LUGrad]

I will say that as soon as I saw the trail leading to the clearing on my way up to the top of the bald spot, I knew there would be trouble. Someone had better construct a fence the size of the one planned in southern Texas around the LU when it is finished. If not, defacing the monogram will be the new bubbles-in-the-fountain trick.

[Purple Haize]

Now an LU shaped bubble fountain. THAT would be awesome

[SuperJon]

If not, defacing the monogram will be the new bubbles-in-the-fountain trick.

The only cool thing about this would be if it became a tradition of some sorts, like toilet papering it after a win in football or basketball. Wake does this on their campus after wins in football and basketball and it's awesome. The thing is, LU kids will probably be stupid with it.

[thepostman]

more like lupd will be stupid with it SJ...fun is outlawed in their books

[SuperJon]

But you know just as well as I do that most of the LU kids are way too immature to do something like that and not take it too far.

[thepostman]

i guess.....maybe...but college kids in gereral take things too far anyways....so i am not sure if its fair to single out LU kids.....LU kids are idiots, but that is because they feel the need to bring God into everything, not because of immaturity....thats my opinion anyways, plus i hate lupd