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By Sly Fox
#558702 Our expert poster in this arena has been suspiciously quiet on this subject. Hopefully that means he is involved in the process.

If the plan is simply to rework existing facilities at River Ridge it will be a difficult see to bring in higher end options. However is the plan is to completely rework the site into a more relevant outdoor/indoor concept making it a destination location then just about anything comes into play. Otherwise your higher end businesses are going to focus on where the grownups and their disposable income are located in downtown and upper income suburbs. At least that is what I am witnessing in the high growth markets where I spend most of my time these days: Houston & Seattle.
By Yacht Rock
#558710
Sly Fox wrote:Our expert poster in this arena has been suspiciously quiet on this subject. Hopefully that means he is involved in the process.

If the plan is simply to rework existing facilities at River Ridge it will be a difficult see to bring in higher end options. However is the plan is to completely rework the site into a more relevant outdoor/indoor concept making it a destination location then just about anything comes into play. Otherwise your higher end businesses are going to focus on where the grownups and their disposable income are located in downtown and upper income suburbs. At least that is what I am witnessing in the high growth markets where I spend most of my time these days: Houston & Seattle.


Yep, the location isn't really the issue. It's easy to get to from the major roads. It just needs to bring enough value to be worth the travel outside of Sundays. Now, even when going to the movies, we don't bother with the rest of the mall.

If the mall adds value, people and their money will show up.

As it is now, the existing facility doesn't match with some of the higher end names being tossed around.
By ALUmnus
#558712
Jonathan Carone wrote:I sometimes wonder if the university side of Lynchburg can support a restaurant that averages more than $15/plate.


The Kirkley and Hilton Garden Inn both have higher-end restaurants (higher-end for Lynchburg). Overall, the restaurant options in Lynchburg are WAY better than they used to be, but most of it is away from the Wards area.
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By Jonathan Carone
#558714
ALUmnus wrote:
Jonathan Carone wrote:I sometimes wonder if the university side of Lynchburg can support a restaurant that averages more than $15/plate.


The Kirkley and Hilton Garden Inn both have higher-end restaurants (higher-end for Lynchburg). Overall, the restaurant options in Lynchburg are WAY better than they used to be, but most of it is away from the Wards area.


That's why I specifically said the university side of things. Other areas can definitely support the higher end restaurants.
By lynchburgwildcats
#561028
ballcoach15 wrote:Based on what I read somewhere this morning, I think a cafeteria is on the way.


I wish Value City would return.

Value City was solid. I got my suit coat there like 13 years ago. Still fits. Doesn't fit very well, but still fits on the rare occasion I need to wear it.
By lynchburgwildcats
#561030
rogers3 wrote:Steinmart, DSW, Home Goods
Red Robin, Bonefish Grill

Could also poach Dick's or add a Field and Stream instead.

Just thinking about what is seen in other markets. I've been a big critic of LU's retail "investment" strategy, but am hopeful that we will finally see some positive changes. Nothing makes college students more excited than a bunch of empty storefronts!

Why on Earth would Dick's move away from a prime location it currently has to a practically dead mall?
By ballcoach15
#561035 I wish some store would come to Lynchburg to give Dick's an opponent in the sporting goods business in the city. Their prices are so high, I feel as if I get robbed every time I go in there, even if I not buy anything.


Danville mall has a Dunham Sports, which is much better than Dick's.
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By Class of 20Something
#561043
ballcoach15 wrote:I wish some store would come to Lynchburg to give Dick's an opponent in the sporting goods business in the city. Their prices are so high, I feel as if I get robbed every time I go in there, even if I not buy anything.


Danville mall has a Dunham Sports, which is much better than Dick's.


I could see Academy or Field and Stream coming. F&S is actually part of the same ownership as Dicks and most Dicks are supposed to stop offering firearms in the future.
By ALUmnus
#561065 we're still talking about Lynchburg, right? there are no competing options because we can hardly support one big box in each category. unless it's discount clothing.
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By Class of 20Something
#561066
ALUmnus wrote:we're still talking about Lynchburg, right? there are no competing options because we can hardly support one big box in each category. unless it's discount clothing.


We can support guns though. That we have a handle on.
By rogers3
#561070
lynchburgwildcats wrote:Why on Earth would Dick's move away from a prime location it currently has to a practically dead mall?


The mall is only as dead as its owner lets it be. Revamped malls with mixed uses are becoming pretty popular. Just imagine how the economy would hum if LU was paying salaries competitive with the University of Lynchburg.
Dicks has expressed interest in other sites to make way for a Field and Stream. If I told you how I know, I'd have to kill you.



ALUmnus wrote:we're still talking about Lynchburg, right? there are no competing options because we can hardly support one big box in each category. unless it's discount clothing.


You have no idea, do you? The Lynchburg market is pretty strong, but is short on prepared sites, most of which are held locally and are priced higher than the market rate. Local developers in Lynchburg are a bunch of yahoos, and that includes our own efforts.
By Yacht Rock
#561094
rogers3 wrote:
lynchburgwildcats wrote:Why on Earth would Dick's move away from a prime location it currently has to a practically dead mall?


The mall is only as dead as its owner lets it be. Revamped malls with mixed uses are becoming pretty popular. Just imagine how the economy would hum if LU was paying salaries competitive with the University of Lynchburg.
Dicks has expressed interest in other sites to make way for a Field and Stream. If I told you how I know, I'd have to kill you.



ALUmnus wrote:we're still talking about Lynchburg, right? there are no competing options because we can hardly support one big box in each category. unless it's discount clothing.


You have no idea, do you? The Lynchburg market is pretty strong, but is short on prepared sites, most of which are held locally and are priced higher than the market rate. Local developers in Lynchburg are a bunch of yahoos, and that includes our own efforts.


This is spot on and has been my observation of the real estate development in the area as well. It seems to be the result of a lot of short term thinking, which is a bummer because there is a lot of potential.
By ALUmnus
#561105
rogers3 wrote:
ALUmnus wrote:we're still talking about Lynchburg, right? there are no competing options because we can hardly support one big box in each category. unless it's discount clothing.


You have no idea, do you? The Lynchburg market is pretty strong, but is short on prepared sites, most of which are held locally and are priced higher than the market rate. Local developers in Lynchburg are a bunch of yahoos, and that includes our own efforts.


Kind of a moody response there, rogers. You obviously know more than I do, but after about 20 years here, I've yet to see that strong market materialize in the retail space.
By rogers3
#561114
ALUmnus wrote:
rogers3 wrote:
ALUmnus wrote:we're still talking about Lynchburg, right? there are no competing options because we can hardly support one big box in each category. unless it's discount clothing.


You have no idea, do you? The Lynchburg market is pretty strong, but is short on prepared sites, most of which are held locally and are priced higher than the market rate. Local developers in Lynchburg are a bunch of yahoos, and that includes our own efforts.


Kind of a moody response there, rogers. You obviously know more than I do, but after about 20 years here, I've yet to see that strong market materialize in the retail space.


Not really moody, and not really directed at you. i think many people have very little knowledge of the market/community outside of Liberty. I have the same response when people talk about the "endowment" or how LU can throw money around....nothing personal.
By Yacht Rock
#561529
rhezick wrote:So I wonder how this affects things moving forward. Assuming this is a big step up and maybe will attract even more to the mall?

https://wset.com/news/local/new-company-to-take-over-river-ridge-mall-management-leasing


I saw this yesterday. I'm not sure what the end result will be. A look at JLL's portfolio reflects some thriving properties, and some not so much. A lot will still come down to the commitment to longterm investments in the property from a development standpoint. Improvements and remodeling, adjusting the use of space. JLL is in a much better position to guide Liberty through making sure that money on the mall is spent in the right place though than anyone internally.
By rogers3
#561593 I've been pretty skeptical of CBREs potential based on the lack of success in their other properties. Badger would be the best to tell the difference, but don't see him took much anymore.
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By alabama24
#561614
rogers3 wrote:I've been pretty skeptical of CBREs potential...


Which was the old company... what do you think of the new one (or do you not know)?
By rogers3
#561621 CBRE- The commercialized Coldwell Banker- is the largest commercial agent in the world, with JLL the second largest. Locally, CBRE hasn't seemed to draw tenants well based on what has transpired over the last few years. I think Jerry was in pretty tight with Chris Doyle, the local CBRE guy. He also happens to be involved with the La Quinta. Interesting that they can't get a tenant into that old restaurant alongside the La Quinta. CBRE has also represented Candler's Station and the Plaza.
JLL might have a different approach and might be more successful at attracting the right mix at the mall. The right leadership can make an older shopping center a great destination; there has not much vision for any of the LU properties, but things might be changing.
By badger74
#562766 I was hurt when CBRE--my old firm for many years--lost the local LU portfolio to JLL. JLL was even more of an institutional firm with the old Lasalle Partners and Jones Lang Wooten competing with some of the major Wall Street firms for deals. Well respected but a little hoity-toity. They hired lots of Ivy grads.
The big rumor I am hearing concerns a new higher end open air mall around where Billy Craft Honda is. Several local higher end stores (Talbots etc)will relocate there from Boonsboro plus a Cheesecake Factory and other restaurants. That would be ideal for the 24503/Forest crowd and make things tougher for River Ridge.
By rogers3
#562772
badger74 wrote:I was hurt when CBRE--my old firm for many years--lost the local LU portfolio to JLL. JLL was even more of an institutional firm with the old Lasalle Partners and Jones Lang Wooten competing with some of the major Wall Street firms for deals. Well respected but a little hoity-toity. They hired lots of Ivy grads.
The big rumor I am hearing concerns a new higher end open air mall around where Billy Craft Honda is. Several local higher end stores (Talbots etc)will relocate there from Boonsboro plus a Cheesecake Factory and other restaurants. That would be ideal for the 24503/Forest crowd and make things tougher for River Ridge.


I don't mind CBRE- I really wonder how well Chris Doyle represented the properties and if that wasn't a bigger issue. Glad you weighed in- you know this stuff better than anyone on here. I think Liberty has really misjudged the retail market by acting slowly, but it is pretty obvious that demographics favor the 221/Old Forest area. I do think LU could poach off of other Wards Rd centers if they get create something attractive.
By Yacht Rock
#562774
badger74 wrote:I was hurt when CBRE--my old firm for many years--lost the local LU portfolio to JLL. JLL was even more of an institutional firm with the old Lasalle Partners and Jones Lang Wooten competing with some of the major Wall Street firms for deals. Well respected but a little hoity-toity. They hired lots of Ivy grads.
The big rumor I am hearing concerns a new higher end open air mall around where Billy Craft Honda is. Several local higher end stores (Talbots etc)will relocate there from Boonsboro plus a Cheesecake Factory and other restaurants. That would be ideal for the 24503/Forest crowd and make things tougher for River Ridge.


I feel like that area will need a lot of work to become a high end destination. There’s certainly a lot of potential, but I still don’t feel we’ve reached peak Cheesecake yet.
By badger74
#562777 Street redo is part of the deal. While L struggles some with higher end retail the number of cool highend cars is exploding. The stuff that comes to my Starbucks regularly amazes me. Saturday there was not one but two brand new Porsche GT3s. They go over $200K each. Plus a Jag 500 HP F type and a Lexus LC. None of these sell locally and are hard to get--even with the $$$$.
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By Cider Jim
#562791
badger74 wrote:The big rumor I am hearing concerns a new higher end open air mall around where Billy Craft Honda is. Several local higher end stores (Talbots etc)will relocate there from Boonsboro plus a Cheesecake Factory and other restaurants. That would be ideal for the 24503/Forest crowd and make things tougher for River Ridge.

That's my neighborhood! The new wings place nearby on the same side of the road is sure doing great business.
By badger74
#562816 Also add a -------Costco. That would be awesome. Mix in Trader Joes and no need to leave town for most shopping.
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By alabama24
#562836
badger74 wrote:Yes, see above--near Billy Craft Honda


Thanks. I couldn't tell if you were simply "wishing" or if you had heard something. You are the second person to tell me that. I hope it is true! I would never have to go to C-ville again (except to watch LU!).
By JK37
#562839 What’s the difference between Sam’s and Costco? I always use Sam’s for bulk, never been to Costco.
By Yacht Rock
#562852 When we lived in California we belonged to both and preferred Costco in most cases. Roanoke just opened up a second wholesale club store. It’s possible we might be able to support a Costco. I think the thing that hurts us in that area is infrastructure issues (lack of major freeways/interstate in and out of Lynchburg). But I could be wrong. I don’t know what Costco’s supply chain looks like.

I think we definitely have the market for a Trader Joe’s. Fresh Market wouldn’t be happy though.

I still don’t think we have the market yet for a Cheesecake Factory. In Virginia and surrounding states, their locations are either in high income zip codes, surrounded by high income zip codes, or in a location where they can survive of a combination of transient business and the low % of high end locals.

If it were in Lynchburg, based on what I see of their business model, they’d have to be situated in a place convenient to both locals and travelers and I’m not sure 221 is that spot.

Then again, people with more money and more experience than me make those decisions. Real estate development has just always been an interest of mine.
By Yacht Rock
#562857
Jonathan Carone wrote:Why would you want a Cheesecake Factory?


People keep floating the idea of one coming every so often. Personally, if we are talking restaurant chains, there are many others I’d rather have.

I will say that there are a ton of great independent restaurants in the area. I think there’s room for both.
By ALUmnus
#562858 Please tell me they're also going to bring in a mattress store and wireless dealer. They're exciting and we don't have enough of those.

Wegman's has been slowly creeping towards our area, I wonder if they'll try to give Kroger some competition in the burg.
By Yacht Rock
#562860
ALUmnus wrote:Please tell me they're also going to bring in a mattress store and wireless dealer. They're exciting and we don't have enough of those.

Wegman's has been slowly creeping towards our area, I wonder if they'll try to give Kroger some competition in the burg.


Honestly, I’d love to see the River Ridge property turn into a mixed use property with a grocery store, lofts, and options for nightlife.

I don’t think I’ve ever bought a mattress from a mattress store, lol.
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By Purple Haize
#562866 Traffic will be unbelievable if Billy Craft becomes a mall
By Yacht Rock
#562867
Purple Haize wrote:Traffic will be unbelievable if Billy Craft becomes a mall


Yeah, I agree. 221 would need to be greatly improved and Breezewood Dr would need to be improved and likely need an overpass to the other side of 501 along with an additional offramp. The Lakeside/501 Intersection wouldn’t be able to handle it alone.
By flamehunter
#562868
Yacht Rock wrote:
Purple Haize wrote:Traffic will be unbelievable if Billy Craft becomes a mall


Yeah, I agree. 221 would need to be greatly improved and Breezewood Dr would need to be improved and likely need an overpass to the other side of 501 along with an additional offramp. The Lakeside/501 Intersection wouldn’t be able to handle it alone.

Agreed. They should start extending Breezewood NOW to Graves Mill road so there is relief in that direction.
By rogers3
#562889 There are already plans for a new intersection at 221 and OFR, but Breezewood Dr. won't get a second thought unless a developer takes a chance on that crappy proposal on Graves Mill Rd. A new retail development would be advantageous to the city, because it might create enough traffic to warrant state funding for the intersection. As it stands, there hasn't been a clear enough need for improvements. The reality is that our traffic concerns will always take a backseat to Cville's, which will always take a backseat to the larger metros to the north and east.
There has to be a good bit of land aggregation before the land the Billy Craft sits on is developed. Across the street, between Aldi and Wilco- that is already moving forward. The city has already sent a certification letter to Chick-fil-a and plans have been submitted to create a large single parcel out of the group that has been cleared.
By badger74
#562891
JK37 wrote:What’s the difference between Sam’s and Costco? I always use Sam’s for bulk, never been to Costco.


Costco is 1000% better. Great meats including US Prime steaks. Good deals on clothing and electronics. Lots of name brands and great house brand.
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By BJWilliams
#562896 Kirkland Signature...and oh the Hebrew National hot dogs...although I would usually get the chicken bake
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By Sly Fox
#562911 They have similar concepts and we have memberships to both. But Costco is always our first choice especially on the grocery side of the store.
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By adam42381
#562912
Jonathan Carone wrote:Costco’s house brand is incredible.

Truth
By rhezick
#562920
rogers3 wrote:There are already plans for a new intersection at 221 and OFR, but Breezewood Dr. won't get a second thought unless a developer takes a chance on that crappy proposal on Graves Mill Rd. A new retail development would be advantageous to the city, because it might create enough traffic to warrant state funding for the intersection. As it stands, there hasn't been a clear enough need for improvements. The reality is that our traffic concerns will always take a backseat to Cville's, which will always take a backseat to the larger metros to the north and east.
There has to be a good bit of land aggregation before the land the Billy Craft sits on is developed. Across the street, between Aldi and Wilco- that is already moving forward. The city has already sent a certification letter to Chick-fil-a and plans have been submitted to create a large single parcel out of the group that has been cleared.


Sorry, can I get some further clarification on two points? You mentioned the proposal on graves mill. I assume your referencing that swath of land that's supposed to be mix use next to bella rose? Any details on when construction will start?

Second and much, much more important, the space next to aldi's that's being cleared is the new CFA? Or is that just hypothetical?
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By Class of 20Something
#562930 http://previewrosedale.com

This is the Graves Mill project