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User avatar
By adam42381
#540318
thepostman wrote:Awful story if true.

Out of curiosity where is the liberty connection?

Falwell endorsed him a couple weeks ago. It was discussed earlier in this thread.

viewtopic.php?p=539465#p539465
User avatar
By adam42381
#540319
ballcoach15 wrote:Everyone in America should endorse Roy Moore for Senate in Alabama.

You stand by this statement, ballcoach?
User avatar
By Purple Haize
#540320 I’m sorry but I’m not buying the Roy Moore allegations. Too ‘convenient’ since it’s fresh in everyone’s mind with the stuff going on in Hollywood etc.
you also have to look at the time involved. I understand reluctance but he was prominent far earlier than now. Why not come forward then?
By thepostman
#540321
adam42381 wrote:
thepostman wrote:Awful story if true.

Out of curiosity where is the liberty connection?

Falwell endorsed him a couple weeks ago. It was discussed earlier in this thread.

viewtopic.php?p=539465#p539465


Ahh gotcha.

Missed that somehow.

Purple Haize wrote:I’m sorry but I’m not buying the Roy Moore allegations. Too ‘convenient’ since it’s fresh in everyone’s mind with the stuff going on in Hollywood etc.
you also have to look at the time involved. I understand reluctance but he was prominent far earlier than now. Why not come forward then?


This is where stuff like this gets dicey. Of course there is no way we will ever know it is true but when more than one person has similar stories it's hard to completely dismiss.

Also there are plenty or people who wait 20 or 30 years to say anything about sexual assault so it isn't like it's a rare thing.
User avatar
By Purple Haize
#540323 I agree but it’s all just too convenient. And their stories are not really the same. Maybe I’ve just grown jaded after all these years off seeing false reports by people trying to do harm, while people who were really affected have to suffer. Even if this lady’s story is true, she is just being used as a pawn by powerful people to be jettisoned once her usefulness to them is done. It’s not about ‘justice’ or ‘accountability’. It’s become a sick game of ‘gotcha’
By thepostman
#540324 Oh you're not wrong. That's why it is dicey. It really sucks that there have been so many false accusations over the years. It also contributes to legit victims not coming forward.
User avatar
By Purple Haize
#540326
thepostman wrote:Oh you're not wrong. That's why it is dicey. It really sucks that there have been so many false accusations over the years. It also contributes to legit victims not coming forward.


Boom. But to me this isn’t even dicey at this point. It’s classic opportunism and dare I say it Fake News.


Full Disclosure - I’m not the biggest Judge Moore fan in the World
User avatar
By Purple Haize
#540362 Wow I’m shocked, shocked I tell you, to find that DeBorah Gibson, the woman accusing Moore, has ties to the Democratic Party in Alabama. Has pictures of her chummy with Biden and has been supporting Doug Jones over Moore for Senate
But she Signs so that’s ok.
User avatar
By adam42381
#540365
Purple Haize wrote:Wow I’m shocked, shocked I tell you, to find that DeBorah Gibson, the woman accusing Moore, has ties to the Democratic Party in Alabama. Has pictures of her chummy with Biden and has been supporting Doug Jones over Moore for Senate
But she Signs so that’s ok.

What about the 14 year old?
User avatar
By Purple Haize
#540372
adam42381 wrote:
Purple Haize wrote:Wow I’m shocked, shocked I tell you, to find that DeBorah Gibson, the woman accusing Moore, has ties to the Democratic Party in Alabama. Has pictures of her chummy with Biden and has been supporting Doug Jones over Moore for Senate
But she Signs so that’s ok.

What about the 14 year old?


I believe it’s the 14 who is Debby Gibson.

To Answer R I - only 1 would be illegal and that is the 14 YO.
Her story leads to a basic question: who leaves their 14 year old daughter with a strange man?
By Yacht Rock
#540375
Purple Haize wrote:
adam42381 wrote:
Purple Haize wrote:Wow I’m shocked, shocked I tell you, to find that DeBorah Gibson, the woman accusing Moore, has ties to the Democratic Party in Alabama. Has pictures of her chummy with Biden and has been supporting Doug Jones over Moore for Senate
But she Signs so that’s ok.

What about the 14 year old?


I believe it’s the 14 who is Debby Gibson.

To Answer R I - only 1 would be illegal and that is the 14 YO.
Her story leads to a basic question: who leaves their 14 year old daughter with a strange man?


The 14 year old's name was Leigh Corfman. Regarding the mother's actions, here's what stood out to me.

He struck up a conversation, Corfman and her mother say, and offered to watch the girl while her mother went inside for a child custody hearing.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/investig ... 0359f563e9

Now, mother's alleged actions aren't defensible (leaving daughter with strange man). However, her actions wouldn't excuse Moore's alleged conduct.

Anyone who's seen what goes on in families working through issues in family court, etc would probably state that scenarios like this aren't unusual, sadly. Things like this happen all the time where parents make terrible decisions to try to make their court date, etc. Sadly, that part of the story is rather believable.

I'd also say that there are an overwhelming number of victims of sexual crimes who don't go public with their stories. The reasons can range from not wanting to attract the stigma of a "victim" label under the best of circumstances or having their history/behavior called into question under the worst of circumstances.

It's also not a leap in logic to think that with all of the talk about sexual assaults recently, the stigma of being a "victim" could have been reduced due to the amount of individuals who shared stories in the #metoo campaign.

In the end, none of us know what happened and nothing can likely be proven one way or another. But the story and timing of it isn't surprising, given the climate we live in. I don't think the timing means the story is less truthful.
User avatar
By Purple Haize
#540378
Yacht Rock wrote:
Purple Haize wrote:
Purple Haize wrote:Wow I’m shocked, shocked I tell you, to find that DeBorah Gibson, the woman accusing Moore, has ties to the Democratic Party in Alabama. Has pictures of her chummy with Biden and has been supporting Doug Jones over Moore for Senate
But she Signs so that’s ok.

What about the 14 year old?

I believe it’s the 14 who is Debby Gibson.

To Answer R I - only 1 would be illegal and that is the 14 YO.
Her story leads to a basic question: who leaves their 14 year old daughter with a strange man?


The 14 year old's name was Leigh Corfman. Regarding the mother's actions, here's what stood out to me.

He struck up a conversation, Corfman and her mother say, and offered to watch the girl while her mother went inside for a child custody hearing.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/investig ... 0359f563e9

Now, mother's alleged actions aren't defensible (leaving daughter with strange man). However, her actions wouldn't excuse Moore's alleged conduct.

Anyone who's seen what goes on in families working through issues in family court, etc would probably state that scenarios like this aren't unusual, sadly. Things like this happen all the time where parents make terrible decisions to try to make their court date, etc. Sadly, that part of the story is rather believable.

I'd also say that there are an overwhelming number of victims of sexual crimes who don't go public with their stories. The reasons can range from not wanting to attract the stigma of a "victim" label under the best of circumstances or having their history/behavior called into question under the worst of circumstances.

It's also not a leap in logic to think that with all of the talk about sexual assaults recently, the stigma of being a "victim" could have been reduced due to the amount of individuals who shared stories in the #metoo campaign.

In the end, none of us know what happened and nothing can likely be proven one way or another. But the story and timing of it isn't surprising, given the climate we live in. I don't think the timing means the story is less truthful.


Thank you Yacht I stand corrected on the 14 YO name.

As for the rest I just don’t see this The actions the mother and ‘victim’ describe are very suspect.
I also find it interesting that people who were jumping to defend McCain on the Republican side are quick to skewer Moore.
I’m not Pro Moore or Pro Pedophile but dubious claims like these hurt the legitimate victims of abuse. Those are the people who will be hurt,again, by this
User avatar
By Class of 20Something
#540382 Can we talk about how suddenly"victimhood" is popular?

Preface, sexual assault is abhorrent and needs to be eradicated from our society.

In the past the years, being a "victim" has become so popular and protected, there are a plethora of crimes commit to make it APPEAR that someone is a victim.

Air Force Academy.

KState

University of Albany

The reason these women are coming out of the woodwork now is because society has dramatically shifted from, "suck it up, chin up, carry on" to victims becoming a protected class.

I'm not supporting or opposing any of these sexual Assault claims or equating them to the hoaxes mention. Just trying to shed light on why now.
User avatar
By adam42381
#540383
Class of 20Something wrote:Can we talk about how suddenly"victimhood" is popular?

Preface, sexual assault is abhorrent and needs to be eradicated from our society.

In the past the years, being a "victim" has become so popular and protected, there are a plethora of crimes commit to make it APPEAR that someone is a victim.

Air Force Academy.

KState

University of Albany

The reason these women are coming out of the woodwork now is because society has dramatically shifted from, "suck it up, chin up, carry on" to victims becoming a protected class.

I'm not supporting or opposing any of these sexual Assault claims or equating them to the hoaxes mention. Just trying to shed light on why now.

Isn’t the fact that victims now feel supported a good thing? In the past, these types of things got swept under the rug or covered up. Men in power have a long history of taking advantage of females. I don’t see how victimhood is “popular”. There are just more channels for victims to come forward.
By ALAFlamesFan
#540388 Backing Trump is one thing but living here in AL I can tell you that Roy Moore is 10 times worse than Trump. He is a fraud who banks on Christians checking their brain at the door to get votes. He has been an embarrassment to evangelicals in this state but only slightly behind the state auditor who made the unfortunate comparison to Mary and Joseph!

This is one situation where our leadership at LU needs to bite their tongue and sit on the sidelines.
User avatar
By Class of 20Something
#540389
adam42381 wrote:
Class of 20Something wrote:Can we talk about how suddenly"victimhood" is popular?

Preface, sexual assault is abhorrent and needs to be eradicated from our society.

In the past the years, being a "victim" has become so popular and protected, there are a plethora of crimes commit to make it APPEAR that someone is a victim.

Air Force Academy.

KState

University of Albany

The reason these women are coming out of the woodwork now is because society has dramatically shifted from, "suck it up, chin up, carry on" to victims becoming a protected class.

I'm not supporting or opposing any of these sexual Assault claims or equating them to the hoaxes mention. Just trying to shed light on why now.

Isn’t the fact that victims now feel supported a good thing? In the past, these types of things got swept under the rug or covered up. Men in power have a long history of taking advantage of females. I don’t see how victimhood is “popular”. There are just more channels for victims to come forward.


I wasn't really trying to say its a good or bad thing. My argument for the popularity can be seen in the protected classes in society. Look at Kevin Spacey's response. His immediate defense was to come out of the closet and put himself in the protected class of homosexuals. Additionally, three separate schools have had black students get caught reporting racist vandalism that they themselves created.
By ballah09
#540399
adam42381 wrote:
LUconn wrote:http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/10/26/exclusive-jerry-falwell-jr-endorses-judge-roy-moore-for-u-s-senate/

Alternate headline: "Virginia resident endorses candidate in Alabama senate race."


Because he's only representing himself, right?

I wonder if Jr. walks this back or doubles down?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/ ... story.html

EDIT: Clarity.


yeah right

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/359779-falwell-jr-stands-by-moore-i-believe-the-judge-is-telling-the

gross.
User avatar
By Purple Haize
#540401
adam42381 wrote:What actions by the ‘victim’? Letting a 32 year old kiss her?


For starters the mother leaving her child with a stranger
The way the alleged sexual abuse took place
Waiting until this late in an election cycle to come forward after all these years.
And of course you are assuming he actually did any of the things she alleges.

Again, I’m neither Pro Moore or Pro Pedo. I’d just like to see some proof or a better story.
By Yacht Rock
#540411
Purple Haize wrote:
adam42381 wrote:What actions by the ‘victim’? Letting a 32 year old kiss her?


For starters the mother leaving her child with a stranger
The way the alleged sexual abuse took place
Waiting until this late in an election cycle to come forward after all these years.
And of course you are assuming he actually did any of the things she alleges.

Again, I’m neither Pro Moore or Pro Pedo. I’d just like to see some proof or a better story.


You're very hung up on the mother's actions. I've seen so many parents do so many similar things over the years. If you take into account the daughter's age (14), it's not completely unbelievable. While I wouldn't do that with my daughter, I was certainly trusted to hang out on my own as a 14 year old and I have female cousins that were trusted out and about on their own as young as 12. It's probably the reason one of them had a child at 14. If you take into account that the mother was involved in a custody dispute, it seems there wasn't a stable life at home, which increases the odds of crazy stuff happening with kids.

In the end, the parent's actions don't really say anything about Moore's actions. Hypothetically he would have been a 30+ year old man getting physical with a 14 year old girl. That's bad even if she had the worst parents in the world.

You really need to separate the two issues.
User avatar
By Purple Haize
#540414
Yacht Rock wrote:
Purple Haize wrote:
adam42381 wrote:What actions by the ‘victim’? Letting a 32 year old kiss her?


For starters the mother leaving her child with a stranger
The way the alleged sexual abuse took place
Waiting until this late in an election cycle to come forward after all these years.
And of course you are assuming he actually did any of the things she alleges.

Again, I’m neither Pro Moore or Pro Pedo. I’d just like to see some proof or a better story.


You're very hung up on the mother's actions. I've seen so many parents do so many similar things over the years. If you take into account the daughter's age (14), it's not completely unbelievable. While I wouldn't do that with my daughter, I was certainly trusted to hang out on my own as a 14 year old and I have female cousins that were trusted out and about on their own as young as 12. It's probably the reason one of them had a child at 14. If you take into account that the mother was involved in a custody dispute, it seems there wasn't a stable life at home, which increases the odds of crazy stuff happening with kids.

In the end, the parent's actions don't really say anything about Moore's actions. Hypothetically he would have been a 30+ year old man getting physical with a 14 year old girl. That's bad even if she had the worst parents in the world.

You really need to separate the two issues.


I am separating the 2 But there is a huge different between being allowed to hang out on your own and being put in the care of a complete stranger.
If there were crazy things going on with the family that made the child easy prey, and Moore were truly a predator, this wouldn’t be an isolated incident with her but ongoing. Much longer and many more times than alleged
If the mother was involved in a Custody Dispute I would think having a stranger watch the person you want custody of?
The way the now woman describes the way the alleged assault took place also doesn’t sound genuine.
Finally there are all of the ancillary issues of motivation, timing etc.
so I am separating several of the issues
User avatar
By adam42381
#540424
ballah09 wrote:
adam42381 wrote:
LUconn wrote:http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/10/26/exclusive-jerry-falwell-jr-endorses-judge-roy-moore-for-u-s-senate/

Alternate headline: "Virginia resident endorses candidate in Alabama senate race."


Because he's only representing himself, right?

I wonder if Jr. walks this back or doubles down?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/ ... story.html

EDIT: Clarity.


yeah right

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/359779-falwell-jr-stands-by-moore-i-believe-the-judge-is-telling-the

gross.

He really is the worst. What a shame.
By Yacht Rock
#540451
Purple Haize wrote:I am separating the 2 But there is a huge different between being allowed to hang out on your own and being put in the care of a complete stranger.
If there were crazy things going on with the family that made the child easy prey, and Moore were truly a predator, this wouldn’t be an isolated incident with her but ongoing. Much longer and many more times than alleged
If the mother was involved in a Custody Dispute I would think having a stranger watch the person you want custody of?
The way the now woman describes the way the alleged assault took place also doesn’t sound genuine.
Finally there are all of the ancillary issues of motivation, timing etc.
so I am separating several of the issues


Sadly, like I said, I've seen so many scenarios like this play out in the system. The example of my cousin was just a family member but outside of that, with people who I don't know personally, I've seen situations like the one described play out.

I'm glad that you haven't seen parents act in this manner but there are a lot of parents that make terrible decisions on a regular basis. If you talk to a family law representative or a social worker, you might find that the mother's actions aren't unbelievable.
User avatar
By Purple Haize
#540462
Yacht Rock wrote:
Purple Haize wrote:I am separating the 2 But there is a huge different between being allowed to hang out on your own and being put in the care of a complete stranger.
If there were crazy things going on with the family that made the child easy prey, and Moore were truly a predator, this wouldn’t be an isolated incident with her but ongoing. Much longer and many more times than alleged
If the mother was involved in a Custody Dispute I would think having a stranger watch the person you want custody of?
The way the now woman describes the way the alleged assault took place also doesn’t sound genuine.
Finally there are all of the ancillary issues of motivation, timing etc.
so I am separating several of the issues


Sadly, like I said, I've seen so many scenarios like this play out in the system. The example of my cousin was just a family member but outside of that, with people who I don't know personally, I've seen situations like the one described play out.

I'm glad that you haven't seen parents act in this manner but there are a lot of parents that make terrible decisions on a regular basis. If you talk to a family law representative or a social worker, you might find that the mother's actions aren't unbelievable.


I’ve seen parents act in the most reprehensible way. I’ve been involved with DCS, Social Workers, Law Enforcement, Lawyers etc. I just find this scenario difficult to believe. I would be more apt to believe it if the Mom pimped her daughter out or this alleged abuse happened more then she says. He she had left her with her dealer or pimp I would buy it.
This isn’t the deciding factor for me in this situation. But it does end up in the ‘Makes me skeptical ‘ column
User avatar
By Purple Haize
#540471
Yacht Rock wrote:Sadly I’ve seen a lot of cases where parents leave their kids with strangers.


I am not sure the ones I known would consider their dealer a stranger.
By ALAFlamesFan
#540664 And now a word from Cal Thomas.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2017/11/ ... alism.html
By rhezick
#540718 Wow great article. Insane this idiot is being considered for a Senate seat. Here's another article from George Will. If I was a resident of Alabama, Doug Jones would have my vote in a heartbeat.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/roy-moore-is-an-embarrassment-doug-jones-deserves-to-win/2017/11/13/0dcb24e2-c89b-11e7-8321-481fd63f174d_story.html
User avatar
By Purple Haize
#540722
rhezick wrote:Wow great article. Insane this idiot is being considered for a Senate seat. Here's another article from George Will. If I was a resident of Alabama, Doug Jones would have my vote in a heartbeat.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/roy-moore-is-an-embarrassment-doug-jones-deserves-to-win/2017/11/13/0dcb24e2-c89b-11e7-8321-481fd63f174d_story.html


George Will has lost a lot of credibility. He is a firm Never Trumper. In fact I don’t think he listens to any music that has Trumpets in it.
User avatar
By Purple Haize
#540739
rhezick wrote:Are credibility and the unwavering support of Trump a mandated link? More specific to this thread, does that logic also apply to our own dear leader as well?


When you have a sect of people who’s sole ambition is to derail someone on their own ‘Side’ they lose credibility. They are no different than the WaPo or NYT who declared their purpose pose to be to derail Trump and their reporting reflects that. George Will is wicked smart. But his analysis when it comes to all things Trump is tainted by his bias
By ballcoach15
#540746 There is only 1 democrat in the country that I would vote for, Congresswoman Tulsi Gabbard.

If I was still living in Alabama, there's no way I would vote for Doug Jones. Judge Roy Moore would get my vote.
By JK37
#540748 You don’t have to like a person to vote for them. Nor does voting for them mean that one endorses everything they do.

Politics is messy. People never like seeing how the sausage is made. Capitalism is messy and mean and nasty. But it’s the best we’ve got.
User avatar
By Jonathan Carone
#540763
JK37 wrote:You don’t have to like a person to vote for them. Nor does voting for them mean that one endorses everything they do.

Politics is messy. People never like seeing how the sausage is made. Capitalism is messy and mean and nasty. But it’s the best we’ve got.


But we'd all be better off if we held them to the standard of no sexual assault of underage girls, right? Can we at least agree on that part?
User avatar
By adam42381
#540764
Jonathan Carone wrote:
JK37 wrote:You don’t have to like a person to vote for them. Nor does voting for them mean that one endorses everything they do.

Politics is messy. People never like seeing how the sausage is made. Capitalism is messy and mean and nasty. But it’s the best we’ve got.


But we'd all be better off if we held them to the standard of no sexual assault of underage girls, right? Can we at least agree on that part?

I think there are plenty of people who would vote for a literal child molester if it meant keeping a Democrat from winning.
User avatar
By Purple Haize
#540765
adam42381 wrote:
Jonathan Carone wrote:
JK37 wrote:You don’t have to like a person to vote for them. Nor does voting for them mean that one endorses everything they do.

Politics is messy. People never like seeing how the sausage is made. Capitalism is messy and mean and nasty. But it’s the best we’ve got.


But we'd all be better off if we held them to the standard of no sexual assault of underage girls, right? Can we at least agree on that part?

I think there are plenty of people who would vote for a literal child molester if it meant keeping a Democrat from winning.


Or Republican. Or Trumpian
User avatar
By LUminary
#540767
Jonathan Carone wrote:
JK37 wrote:You don’t have to like a person to vote for them. Nor does voting for them mean that one endorses everything they do.

Politics is messy. People never like seeing how the sausage is made. Capitalism is messy and mean and nasty. But it’s the best we’ve got.


But we'd all be better off if we held them to the standard of no sexual assault of underage girls, right? Can we at least agree on that part?


Totally agree, IF the person is guilty of it. That's the part that a lot of people are ignoring in this case. Smoke doesn't always = fire, especially when the timing of the charges is suspect - many years later and in the midst of a political race. Unfortunately, Trump haters and folks on the left automatically assume Moore is guilty. And maybe he is. Given the number of accusers, maybe he is. But who knows? Voters aren't likely to know by the time they step into the booth, which makes it difficult unless they assume he's guilty (or innocent) without really knowing.
By rhezick
#540773 Wonder how many will change their tune now that the almighty Hannity has urged Moore to step down.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/11/15/even-sean-hannity-has-had-it-with-roy-moore-gives-him-24-hours-to-explain-inconsistencies/
By ALAFlamesFan
#540800 Another great take from a guy i am proud to call a friend.

https://nyti.ms/2juXAwB
User avatar
By Purple Haize
#540801
ALAFlamesFan wrote:Another great take from a guy i am proud to call a friend.

https://nyti.ms/2juXAwB


Defend no matter what? Interesting phrase.
By Yacht Rock
#540821 Sadly, it’s common for a lot of assaults or harassment to go unreported. If people feel they are the only victim, they may feel that no one will believe them (which is what we see happening). We are taking a turn as a society but there are many, many, many things that have been done to women, men, girls, boys, that never see the light of day. It doesn’t mean they didn’t happen though and when someone decides it’s time to speak up, good for them.