A Sea Of Red

All of that investment for an arena with no tenants ... or even possible tenants at this point. This sounds like when Henry Cisneros convinced San Antonio residents to build a stadium to entice an NFL franshise. The Alamodome continues to rot decades later.

If becoming partners with the Beijing government is necessary to build an arena in your backyard, you have to ask some tough questions of the thinking.

Sly Fox wrote:All of that investment for an arena with no tenants ... or even possible tenants at this point. This sounds like with Henry Cisneros convinced San Antonio residents to build a stadium to entice an NFL franshise.

If becoming partners with the Beijing government is necessary to build an arena in your backyard, you have to ask some tough questions of the thinking.

Agreed. They don't even currently have a loan secured, so I doubt it'll ever actually get built.

What major league level team do they think will be leaving their current location anytime soon? If it gets built, the arena is going to be considered ancient by the time anyone would want to move to the area.

They have been eyeing several NBA franchises for a few years now. Several have even used the possible arena as leverage to get better deals in their current cities. That is exactly what happened to San Antonio with NFL franchises.

Its not just the NBA, there was serious talk about becoming a location for an NHL expansion team. I wish I were kidding, but I'm not.

The most favorable comments on Facebook I've seen are "Now we're going to get big time concerts."

I love the area and want it to do well, but this doesn't seem like a good idea.

Sly Fox wrote:They have been eyeing several NBA franchises for a few years now. Several have even used the possible arena as leverage to get better deals in their current cities. That is exactly what happened to San Antonio with NFL franchises.

The Patriots used Hartford for this as well. Screwed the city over pretty bad.

Ive grown up in this area and arena talk has come up on more than a few occasions (I remember the big push for an NHL expansion team btw...the Rhinos...oy!). I would not mind seeing an NHL or NBA franchise here if they can swing it financially, but I am not going to jump for joy or or even or even at this point until we see a team actually suiting up for a game.

Vancouver and Seattle couldn't support an NBA team but Tidewater is poised for greatness? Color me skeptical.

I miss the supersonics...

Sly Fox wrote:Vancouver and Seattle couldn't support an NBA team but Tidewater is poised for greatness? Color me skeptical.

I'd like to see demographic break downs. I would think the 757 would be a more viable spot than Vancouver and probably Seattle. Different types of population

The biggest issue that I saw over the years was the inability of the governments of the seven cities to work together toward the common goal of getting a professional team in this area.

Purple Haize wrote:

Sly Fox wrote:Vancouver and Seattle couldn't support an NBA team but Tidewater is poised for greatness? Color me skeptical.

I'd like to see demographic break downs. I would think the 757 would be a more viable spot than Vancouver and probably Seattle. Different types of population

Under what possible demographic difference? Corporate support is what keeps NBA franchises afloat and Hampton Roads is not even in the same league with Puget Sound.

Sly Fox wrote:

Purple Haize wrote:

Sly Fox wrote:Vancouver and Seattle couldn't support an NBA team but Tidewater is poised for greatness? Color me skeptical.

I'd like to see demographic break downs. I would think the 757 would be a more viable spot than Vancouver and probably Seattle. Different types of population

Under what possible demographic difference? Corporate support is what keeps NBA franchises afloat and Hampton Roads is not even in the same league with Puget Sound.

There is enough corporate money to make it possible. I was looking at the average citizen and season ticket buyer. Football works in Seattle because of who owns them, it's an outdoor and rugged sport and fits with that type of culture because it doesn't have to be supported for 41 home dates. The 757 are seem like they would be a better fit for a non summer indoor event. The PNW seems more interested in plaids coffee and granola.
Don't get me wrong. I LOVES the Super Sonics. Tom Chambers, Xavier McDaniel, Sedale Threat Gary Payton Shawn Kemp Dale Ellis and Shawn Kemp (who I out scored in our only head to head match up in HS)? Loved those teams
But like I said, I'd want to look at demographic studies and where dollars would go

To be fair, Seattle lost their NBA franchise because their new ownership tried to strong arm their way into a new arena deal. The local government wouldn't pony up $500 million dollars to finance a new arena, so they went to Oklahoma City. Their fanbase was pretty strong in Seattle.

adam42381 wrote:To be fair, Seattle lost their NBA franchise because their new ownership tried to strong arm their way into a new arena deal. The local government wouldn't pony up $500 million dollars to finance a new arena, so they went to Oklahoma City. Their fanbase was pretty strong in Seattle.

Agreed. My original thought was in relation to Vancouver but I got side tracked. I mean Vancouver had Big Country and Sharif somebody and that was it

Purple Haize wrote:

adam42381 wrote:To be fair, Seattle lost their NBA franchise because their new ownership tried to strong arm their way into a new arena deal. The local government wouldn't pony up $500 million dollars to finance a new arena, so they went to Oklahoma City. Their fanbase was pretty strong in Seattle.

Agreed. My original thought was in relation to Vancouver but I got side tracked. I mean Vancouver had Big Country and Sharif somebody and that was it

The "strong arming" was only Howard Shultz. The new ownership ALWAYS intended to move the team. Email messages confirm it.

#BRINGBACKTHESONICS

If you are going by pure numbers, Hampton Roads market is #42 just one tick ahead of #43 OKC. The following markets have major franchises that are smaller than Hampton Roads:

• 47. Jacksonville
  50. Memphis
  51. New Orleans
  53. Buffalo
  68. Green Bay

Jax is about to lose an NFL franchise they should never have received int he first place. Memphis had the corporate support and was right place at right time. They also are on shaky footing. New Orleans numbers are way down Post-Katrina but until the recent oil bust had tons of great corporate support. Buffalo would never get either an NFL or NHL franchise if they weren't already grandfathered in. And Green Bay has the unique ownership arrangement that will keep it there forever as the de facto team for the entire state. So there is not much to use as justification.

Here are some major markets who do not have an NBA franchise:

• 11. Tampa-St. Pete
  14. Seattle
  21. St. Louis
  23. Pittsburgh
  25. Research Triangle
  26. Baltimore
  28. San Diego
  29. Nashville

The list could on & on of cities with more population and corporate support. And that is before you bring in per capita income in any area with a heavy military population. But once again, I suggest corporate support would be the achilles heal for the area.

BuryYourDuke wrote:I would agree with BJ that the HR region's biggest obstacle is the fact that it is a region, not a city. The local governments treat each other as rivals and not partners, which keeps these sorts of projects from being successful.

The metro area is quickly approaching 2 million people. That's larger than Memphis, Oklahoma City, and others that have major franchises. That being said, I don't necessarily believe that an NBA franchise would be a success, but I wouldn't dismiss it either.

Agreed. Although you really wouldn't need all 7 cities to work together. Just Norfolk, Chesapeake and VA Beach cooperating together would be enough to do some great things. I'm also going to agree with Sly, the Fortune 500 companies (aside from Norfolk Southern and Dollar Tree) just aren't there, and the federal government/DoD sure as heck won't be a sponsor.

I honestly don't think corporate support would be a big problem. I believe there are four or five Fortune 500 that are headquartered in VA Beach. Richmond is also just a short 2 hour drive from the beach and is home to another four or five Fortune 500 companies. I can tell you that my company (which has plans to increase to over 600 employees by next year) would be ready to go all in from day one.

If this was marketed right, you honestly could draw a fan base that far exceeds the VA Beach area. Personally, I've not found Virginia residents view the Wizards in the same light that Carolina residents view the Hornets.

Don't have any idea if this will ever happen but I would love it if it did. I'm going to need a team to root for when/if Lebron retires from his career as the best NBA player...ever.

http://www.pilotonline.com/sports/virgi ... 0bd05.html

I was right, the Beach is more interested in the NHL. Reading the article, Sly is also right as to the question of corporate sponsorship.

The NHL can't work in Miami, Phoenix or Raleigh-Durham but is poised for success in Hampton Roads? There is a reason that we don't have a franchise here in Houston in spite of a minor league team averaging 10k in attendance for decades. NHL franchises rarely work in cities with transient populations.

For the record, there are three Fortune 500 companies in the market and one of those is rumored to be bought soon and the HQ would likely be moved away. Berkshire Hathaway's BNSF is reportedly in the process of working out a deal to buy Norfolk Southern.

Sly Fox wrote:For the record, there are three Fortune 500 companies in the market and one of those is rumored to be bought soon and the HQ would likely be moved away. Berkshire Hathaway's BNSF is reportedly in the process of working out a deal to buy Norfolk Southern.

BNSF is probably only trying to make CP's plan to expensive execute.

Rail consolidation is necessary just like airline consolidation the past decade. The market is changing and efficiencies are necessary to maintain margins.

CP has an uphill battle with US regulators.

Sly Fox wrote:The NHL can't work in Miami, Phoenix or Raleigh-Durham but is poised for success in Hampton Roads? There is a reason that we don't have a franchise here in Houston in spite of a minor league team averaging 10k in attendance for decades. NHL franchises rarely work in cities with transient populations.

For the record, there are three Fortune 500 companies in the market and one of those is rumored to be bought soon and the HQ would likely be moved away. Berkshire Hathaway's BNSF is reportedly in the process of working out a deal to buy Norfolk Southern.

We have the NHL here in Dallas. Please try to contain your jealousy.

As for NS being taken over by BNSF or CP...I'm sorry to see NS go away but most of the executive operations are in Atlanta anyway. I'm more concerned if they will play as nice with VA and Amtrak in establishing passenger rail service throughout the state.