A Sea Of Red

It appears the 30 sec. shot clock will be a reality. This will be good for college basketball.

I'm a fan. A lot of smarter basketball minds don't seem to like it but the college game had been getting tougher to watch for years.

Just to repost McKay's comment from my Q&A with him last month on the defensive impact of a 30-second clock:

“This is what’s going to happen. Seventy-percent of coaches in the country are going to put on a three-quarter court press. They’re going to try to take eight seconds off the clock, so now you’ve got to play with a 22-second clock. So 22 seconds to defend is a lot different, especially if you trap the first pass in and you get teams out of their everyday offense. It’s going to bring the scores down, even though there will be more possessions, because teams won’t be able to play their everyday offense. That’s my prediction. So, yeah, in theory, you’re going to have to do some stuff that you haven’t done as a coach relative to trying to find easy baskets. So there will be more ‘havocs’ and ‘mayhems.’ I don’t know, you’ve got a few Shaka [Smart] descendents out there who have the different names. I don’t know what the Flames will be. The Flames will just try to win the game. That’s what the Flames will do.”

Chris Lang wrote:Just to repost McKay's comment from my Q&A with him last month on the defensive impact of a 30-second clock:

“This is what’s going to happen. Seventy-percent of coaches in the country are going to put on a three-quarter court press. They’re going to try to take eight seconds off the clock, so now you’ve got to play with a 22-second clock. So 22 seconds to defend is a lot different, especially if you trap the first pass in and you get teams out of their everyday offense. It’s going to bring the scores down, even though there will be more possessions, because teams won’t be able to play their everyday offense. That’s my prediction. So, yeah, in theory, you’re going to have to do some stuff that you haven’t done as a coach relative to trying to find easy baskets. So there will be more ‘havocs’ and ‘mayhems.’ I don’t know, you’ve got a few Shaka [Smart] descendents out there who have the different names. I don’t know what the Flames will be. The Flames will just try to win the game. That’s what the Flames will do.”

You will either have to be hyper up tempo, bordering on LMU of old, or you will not see an increase in scoring.

What youre going to have is either everybody playing like Loyola Marymount (and scores in the 100s like you sometimes would have in the Western Conference of the NBA) or youre going to see games about on par with some high school scores (and they basically play 16 minute halves)

it's a 5 second difference.

You would actually be amazed how much of a difference 5 seconds can make. Heck, if you look at he Hawks-Wizards game from last night, a tenth of a second (or two) was the difference between a game-tying 3 at the buzzer and the shot not counting at all.

Thanks beej. I know that. I just find it hard to believe 5 seconds will effect the quality of shots. Again I realize there are brighter basketball minds out there that disagree. I just find the college game to be less and less entertaining. I don't expect that to be a universal opinion.

thepostman wrote:Thanks beej. I know that. I just find it hard to believe 5 seconds will effect the quality of shots. Again I realize there are brighter basketball minds out there that disagree. I just find the college game to be less and less entertaining. I don't expect that to be a universal opinion.

It really does make a difference. If you try to run any semblance of half court offense besides a high ball screen you will see a lot of bad shots.
Or you will see coaches calling set plays every time down. Sort of like the NBE....error...NBA

I too have found less and less enjoyment in the college game

30 second shot clock is a nice move. In itself, it won't make that much of a difference, but combined with several other things it can make a significant difference in scoring and tempo.

Only way we'll see any legitimate increase in scoring is if they actually stick to the initiative of freedom of movement and cutting down on the physicality. They tried it two years ago then went away from it after a month or two because they cowered to fans moaning over too many fouls being called instead of being patient and let the process work out.

Have too many teams trying to turn games into wrestling matches and a battle of strength training. Need to cut down on that nonsense. It's pretty ridiculous when some coaches will put their players in football pads and junk for practice so they can play bully ball. This is basketball after all, not rugby.

I hope they soon look into widening the lane and making the 3 pointer longer. Will help open up the floor more and further cut down on the physicality around the paint.

ballcoach15 wrote:It appears the 30 sec. shot clock will be a reality. This will be good for college basketball.

This surprises me. I figured you'd want to go back to the days that we didn't have a shot clock

jbock13 wrote:

ballcoach15 wrote:It appears the 30 sec. shot clock will be a reality. This will be good for college basketball.

This surprises me. I figured you'd want to go back to the days that we didn't have a shot clock

jbock13 wrote:

ballcoach15 wrote:It appears the 30 sec. shot clock will be a reality. This will be good for college basketball.

This surprises me. I figured you'd want to go back to the days that we didn't have a shot clock

College hoops does need a shakeup, but I'm not sure if this is it. I'm in the group that watches less and less every year. At this point I barely catch more than an occasional game before taking in the opening weekend of the tournament. From the Sweet 16 on I barely watch unless there's a good mid major story like George Mason, VCU, or Butler going on.

Eliminating some timeouts will help game also. Biggest problem with basketball now is too many TOs.

ballcoach15 wrote:Eliminating some timeouts will help game also. Biggest problem with basketball now is too many TOs.

Agreed. They need to find a way to incorporate Media and Team TO's. For instance a team calls a TO at 16:23 THAT should count as the Media TO. Otherwise, which is what you have now, there will be 1 or 2 possessions then another TO.

Wildcat is right about them trying to emphasize freedom of movement two years ago, and giving up too soon. But it wasn't just fans; a majority of coaches complained, too. I wasn't one. I was disappointed when they didn't stick to their guns. Players will eventually adapt. Just like in the NBA, it will simply take time.

I personally like the 30-second shot clock. I'm also in favor of an 8-second backcourt limit.

Women's bball went to the sort of rule Haize described regarding timeouts, and it has helped. If a team takes a timeout within 30 seconds of a media zone, THAT becomes the media.

Like someone else said, no one rule will solely solve the time of play issue. But a series of small rules changes could be a big help!

JK37 wrote:Wildcat is right about them trying to emphasize freedom of movement two years ago, and giving up too soon. But it wasn't just fans; a majority of coaches complained, too. I wasn't one. I was disappointed when they didn't stick to their guns. Players will eventually adapt. Just like in the NBA, it will simply take time.

I personally like the 30-second shot clock. I'm also in favor of an 8-second backcourt limit.

Women's bball went to the sort of rule Haize described regarding timeouts, and it has helped. If a team takes a timeout within 30 seconds of a media zone, THAT becomes the media.

Like someone else said, no one rule will solely solve the time of play issue. But a series of small rules changes could be a big help!

I didn't know the Women went to that TO policy. I don't remember it on some of the ESPN games but good for them. As a general rule of thumb I've liked the WBB rules more so than the MBB. Coaches didn't like the Freedom of Movement rule because it really slowed the game down and took away any type of flow. Also resulted in LOTS of FT's. It is also almost impossible to enforce consistently. It started out easy enough 'no 2 hands. 1 'hot stove' touch' but then it got crazy with exceptions etc.
Finally, I really like NOT having a 8 or 10 second back court rule. IMO, that opens up the game a lot!

The women did make that change, and the men are going that route this year as well.

Also, women's basketball is likely to go to a four-quarter system next year, rather than two halves.

I have always wondered why college did 2 halves as opposed to 4 quarters. It isn't that big of a deal, but it never made much sense.

didnt realize people actually watch womens basketball...wow

bballfan84 wrote:didnt realize people actually watch womens basketball...wow

Lang is paid to watch it. JK37 is paid to coach it, and Purple used to be.

Purple Haize wrote:

ballcoach15 wrote:Eliminating some timeouts will help game also. Biggest problem with basketball now is too many TOs.

Agreed. They need to find a way to incorporate Media and Team TO's. For instance a team calls a TO at 16:23 THAT should count as the Media TO. Otherwise, which is what you have now, there will be 1 or 2 possessions then another TO.

That is one of the rules proposals

Purple Haize wrote:

JK37 wrote:Wildcat is right about them trying to emphasize freedom of movement two years ago, and giving up too soon. But it wasn't just fans; a majority of coaches complained, too. I wasn't one. I was disappointed when they didn't stick to their guns. Players will eventually adapt. Just like in the NBA, it will simply take time.

I personally like the 30-second shot clock. I'm also in favor of an 8-second backcourt limit.

Women's bball went to the sort of rule Haize described regarding timeouts, and it has helped. If a team takes a timeout within 30 seconds of a media zone, THAT becomes the media.

Like someone else said, no one rule will solely solve the time of play issue. But a series of small rules changes could be a big help!

I didn't know the Women went to that TO policy. I don't remember it on some of the ESPN games but good for them. As a general rule of thumb I've liked the WBB rules more so than the MBB. Coaches didn't like the Freedom of Movement rule because it really slowed the game down and took away any type of flow. Also resulted in LOTS of FT's. It is also almost impossible to enforce consistently. It started out easy enough 'no 2 hands. 1 'hot stove' touch' but then it got crazy with exceptions etc.
Finally, I really like NOT having a 8 or 10 second back court rule. IMO, that opens up the game a lot!

It slowed the game down because the players and coaches couldn't teach/adapt immediately to keeping their hands off other players. Instead of trying to follow the rules they just whined like a bunch of babies until the spineless refs caved.

thepostman wrote:I have always wondered why college did 2 halves as opposed to 4 quarters. It isn't that big of a deal, but it never made much sense.

Because it's America and we have to do things different for the sake of being different.