[aredd33]

A serious reply now, the dreaded death penalty should certainly be on the table. UNC makes SMU look like squeaky clean saints here.

Is that a legitimate possibility? What are other possible punishments?

[lynchburgwildcats]

A serious reply now, the dreaded death penalty should certainly be on the table. UNC makes SMU look like squeaky clean saints here.

Is that a legitimate possibility? What are other possible punishments?

Should be, doubt the NCAA has the cajones to do it though. But pretty much anything imaginable at this point would be on the table, I would think.

Probation, vacating wins, bringing down banners (included national championship banners), scholarship reductions, postseason bans, TV bans (although not likely these days), financial penalties, etc.

[lynchburgwildcats]

So a restaurant in Lexington, Kentucky is today offering a free UNC degree to anyone who buys a meal and if you retweet their tweet, they'll even throw in a masters degree

@ilovecajun: TODAY ONLY...buy a meal & get free @UNC degree! RT & we'll throw in a masters degree. **no studying required**

[BCXtreme]

I guess I should rephrase it, someone that can read, meaning UNC athletes need not apply.

I'm glad I saw your edit before I posted my response to what this originally said. Kudos on that. I'll instead take the opportunity to remind everyone that this is a big scandal, but it's still finite. Nothing about this issue should give anyone a reason to disparage the many thousands of UNC students, alumni, and faculty who had nothing to do with it. Anybody involved with Liberty University should know better than to judge an entire university community on the actions of a few.

If you hate UNC, fine. But this scandal is not confirmation of your hate, nor of your conspiracy theories.

Obviously LWC was partially in jest when he said UNC athletes can't read. However, the statement isn't as far from the truth as it should be. Very troubling discoveries were made about the education level of some of those athletes. Which brings up two points:

• UNC is NOT the only school with poorly educated athletes. The dumb jock stereotype is pervasive across education, at every level.
• It's UNC's fault that these people were being allowed to progress through college. But it's not their fault that there are tons of athletically talented 18- to 23-year-olds that can't read or write beyond primary-school levels. That's another problem, and one that IMO needs to be discussed once the dust settles. UNC's a prestigious research university, they can help with that. My biggest takeaway from this whole incident is not about UNC, but rather about how badly our national primary and secondary education system is failing young people.

As far as the penalties that should result… I would support the NCAA vacating 18 years of wins and any special awards that went with them. I would not support them banning UNC for any length of time. The students and coaches that currently make up the Tar Heels athletic program, as confirmed by the investigator, had no involvement in this. They don't deserve to be punished for it. Doesn't mean the NCAA won't do it anyway, they have before with others. But I thought it was wrong then, and I think it would be wrong now.

[ATrain]

BC, your second lesson for FlameFans 202: lynchburgwildcats used to be known as shuk and he went to Lynchburg College, now works at Hampden-Sydney College.

[BCXtreme]

BC, your second lesson for FlameFans 202: lynchburgwildcats used to be known as shuk and he went to Lynchburg College, now works at Hampden-Sydney College.

That's why everything after the first two short sentences of my last post was directed at everyone, not him specifically. I already knew he went to LC. I've been around here long enough to smell the haters; I lurked for months before I joined.

[lynchburgwildcats]

I guess I should rephrase it, someone that can read, meaning UNC athletes need not apply.

I'm glad I saw your edit before I posted my response to what this originally said. Kudos on that. I'll instead take the opportunity to remind everyone that this is a big scandal, but it's still finite. Nothing about this issue should give anyone a reason to disparage the many thousands of UNC students, alumni, and faculty who had nothing to do with it. Anybody involved with Liberty University should know better than to judge an entire university community on the actions of a few.

If you hate UNC, fine. But this scandal is not confirmation of your hate, nor of your conspiracy theories.

Obviously LWC was partially in jest when he said UNC athletes can't read. However, the statement isn't as far from the truth as it should be. Very troubling discoveries were made about the education level of some of those athletes. Which brings up two points:

• UNC is NOT the only school with poorly educated athletes. The dumb jock stereotype is pervasive across education, at every level.
• It's UNC's fault that these people were being allowed to progress through college. But it's not their fault that there are tons of athletically talented 18- to 23-year-olds that can't read or write beyond primary-school levels. That's another problem, and one that IMO needs to be discussed once the dust settles. UNC's a prestigious research university, they can help with that. My biggest takeaway from this whole incident is not about UNC, but rather about how badly our national primary and secondary education system is failing young people.

As far as the penalties that should result… I would support the NCAA vacating 18 years of wins and any special awards that went with them. I would not support them banning UNC for any length of time. The students and coaches that currently make up the Tar Heels athletic program, as confirmed by the investigator, had no involvement in this. They don't deserve to be punished for it. Doesn't mean the NCAA won't do it anyway, they have before with others. But I thought it was wrong then, and I think it would be wrong now.

The supplemental documents don't support that none of the current coaches had any involvement or knowledge of what was going on.

See current women's soccer head coach Anson Dorrance trying to arrange some of those fake classes for a prospective student athlete
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e183/ ... g~original

Or the current baseball coach Mike Fox
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e183/ ... 394ea5.png

and a particularly juicy tidbit here, not implicating any coach, but one that is talking about issuing checks to students for getting certain grades. Were they being paid if they got certain grades, or is this Pell Grant money or what?
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e183/ ... 6208c2.png

[BCXtreme]

See current women's soccer head coach Anson Dorrance trying to arrange some of those fake classes for a prospective student athlete
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e183/ ... g~original

Or the current baseball coach Mike Fox
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e183/ ... 394ea5.png

and a particularly juicy tidbit here, not implicating any coach, but one that is talking about issuing checks to students for getting certain grades. Were they being paid if they got certain grades, or is this Pell Grant money or what?
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e183/ ... 6208c2.png

The investigator thought that a fair number of people knew there were "easy classes" in the AFAM department, but were not aware those classes were actually fraudulent/fake. Both of the first two links work with that theory. That theory is also highly believable because coaches are not likely to know the details behind liberal arts classes; they have better things to do.

As for the last link, your guess is as good as mine. As you said, it doesn't really implicate anyone. Without context, there's no way of telling what they were discussing. It could have easily been a completely innocent conversation because financial aid IS often dependent on grades.

All that, of course, is assuming all three images posted on a random Photobucket account are genuine. If they are, I'm still going to trust the professional who investigated this matter thoroughly over a period of months, more than I would trust any personal interpretation (including my own) of a few supplemental documents pulled together in a few minutes on an online discussion board. No offense.

[lynchburgwildcats]

See current women's soccer head coach Anson Dorrance trying to arrange some of those fake classes for a prospective student athlete
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e183/ ... g~original

Or the current baseball coach Mike Fox
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e183/ ... 394ea5.png

and a particularly juicy tidbit here, not implicating any coach, but one that is talking about issuing checks to students for getting certain grades. Were they being paid if they got certain grades, or is this Pell Grant money or what?
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e183/ ... 6208c2.png

The investigator thought that a fair number of people knew there were "easy classes" in the AFAM department, but were not aware those classes were actually fraudulent/fake. Both of the first two links work with that theory. That theory is also highly believable because coaches are not likely to know the details behind liberal arts classes; they have better things to do.

As for the last link, your guess is as good as mine. As you said, it doesn't really implicate anyone. Without context, there's no way of telling what they were discussing. It could have easily been a completely innocent conversation because financial aid IS often dependent on grades.

All that, of course, is assuming all three images posted on a random Photobucket account are genuine. If they are, I'm still going to trust the professional who investigated this matter thoroughly over a period of months, more than I would trust any personal interpretation (including my own) of a few supplemental documents pulled together in a few minutes on an online discussion board. No offense.

Those aren't random images, those are screenshots of the 900 pages of supplemental documents furnished by Wainstein and uploaded to UNC's website. There's a WHOLE lot more from where that came from too.

[Purple Haize]

BC, your second lesson for FlameFans 202: lynchburgwildcats used to be known as shuk and he went to Lynchburg College, now works at Hampden-Sydney College.

And he's a self admitted Troll. So instead of accusing people of trolling ignore the ones who actually admit to being one.
That's FlamesFan 202 as well.

[4everfsu]

No matter how UNC or its supporters want to spin it, this is bad

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2014/1 ... El0EFTD_cu

[thepostman]

If this is as bad as it looks I don't see any other option but the death penalty. This is goes way beyond athletes getting paid for autographs.

[JakeP50]

I was initially joking about UNC getting the death penalty, but wow they may actually end up getting it. That would be a serious loss to college sports, especially basketball if they get hit with it too.

[ATrain]

Is the ACC the new old SEC???

[lynchburgwildcats]

Is the ACC the new old SEC???

Nothing compares to this. This has to be the largest known systematic academic fraud scandal in American history. If not the largest I can't imagine how it would not be in the top five.

[TDDance234]

After the NCAA completed a nine-month, $2.2 million dollar investigation into Gangelhoff's accusations, the program was hit with a slew of sanctions.

The Gophers were banned from postseason play for four years, and stripped of all postseason awards, titles, personal records, and statistics dating back to the 1993–94 season. The program was vacated of its 1997 conference title.

The NCAA also reduced the number of scholarships available for the three years following the sanctions.

Head coach Clem Haskins was served a seven-year show-cause penalty.

The NCAA determined during the investigation that a total of 18 students were involved in Minnesota's academic fraud.

There's the precedence. It'll be interesting to see what happens for sure.

[Kolzilla41]

After the NCAA completed a nine-month, $2.2 million dollar investigation into Gangelhoff's accusations, the program was hit with a slew of sanctions.

The Gophers were banned from postseason play for four years, and stripped of all postseason awards, titles, personal records, and statistics dating back to the 1993–94 season. The program was vacated of its 1997 conference title.

The NCAA also reduced the number of scholarships available for the three years following the sanctions.

Head coach Clem Haskins was served a seven-year show-cause penalty.

The NCAA determined during the investigation that a total of 18 students were involved in Minnesota's academic fraud.

There's the precedence. It'll be interesting to see what happens for sure.

But doesn't this span over 18 years, 3,000 plus students and roughly 1,500 student athletes? I agree that this might be the biggest in academic history.

[SuperJon]

The NCAA learned the death penalty was too harsh. Carolina will get the harshest penalty possible up to the death penalty but not the actual death penalty.

And rightfully so.

[lynchburgwildcats]

After the NCAA completed a nine-month, $2.2 million dollar investigation into Gangelhoff's accusations, the program was hit with a slew of sanctions.

The Gophers were banned from postseason play for four years, and stripped of all postseason awards, titles, personal records, and statistics dating back to the 1993–94 season. The program was vacated of its 1997 conference title.

The NCAA also reduced the number of scholarships available for the three years following the sanctions.

Head coach Clem Haskins was served a seven-year show-cause penalty.

The NCAA determined during the investigation that a total of 18 students were involved in Minnesota's academic fraud.

There's the precedence. It'll be interesting to see what happens for sure.

But doesn't this span over 18 years, 3,000 plus students and roughly 1,500 student athletes? I agree that this might be the biggest in academic history.

FSU is the most recent case. If I remember correctly, it was 61 athletes involved in academic fraud.

[lynchburgwildcats]

The NCAA learned the death penalty was too harsh. Carolina will get the harshest penalty possible up to the death penalty but not the actual death penalty.

And rightfully so.

I still think it's on the table for consideration. I read that they were considering giving the death penalty to Penn State due to the Sandusky stuff. This UNC stuff is a more blatant violation of NCAA rules than Penn State was and actually violates more rules as the Sandusky stuff was mostly criminal in nature.

[flameshaw]

I admit straight up, I hate UNC. If the Taliban had an athletic program, I would pull for them to beat the TarHoles. People have known for years this whole deal has been going on and the admin. chose to look the other way. "Other schools do the same thing" is a cop out. Other schools haven't been caught yet at this level of fraud, so there is no reason to discuss other schools, that is just Obama-spin.They deserve the death penalty, vacating any ACC/National Championship titles that these athletes competed in. However, they will probably get a slap on the wrist. Feel better now.

[JakeP50]

After what happened to SMU, who still hasn't fully recovered, the NCAA is afraid to use it again. It should be as close as you can possibly get to the death penalty without actually being the death penalty.

[thepostman]

Nope it should be the death penalty. For 20 years they completely spat on unc the educational Institute. We all love sports here but come on.

[lynchburgwildcats]

It's a good time to be Mary Willingham after the way UNC treated her. #Vindication

[thepostman]

I agree that nothing will happen but I view this differently then athletes taking payment. This is compromising the entire university and cheapens a degree one receives from UNC and compromises the entire university. That has much larger, long term effects then athletes getting paid.

That is my opinion, but sadly you're right, the ncaa will do just enough to make the public happy.