A Sea Of Red

I don't recall seeing this two years ago when it was published. But the student newspaper at Central Michigan with some surprisingly strong journalism exposing their school's football attendance woes.

Central Michigan Life wrote:Football attendance fails to reach NCAA Division I standards
Posted by Matt Thompson on February 5, 2012 at 11:45 pm


Figures comparing ticket sales versus announced football game attendance. (Source: CMU Athletics documents)

Fans and critics of the Central Michigan football team have long doubted attendance numbers announced during games.

It turns out they’re right.

The athletic department has inflated attendance numbers announced to fans and media while expecting to report a number to NCAA about Division I status.

Athletics Director Dave Heeke expects that the attendance number submitted to the NCAA Feb. 15 will be lower than the 15,000 average attendance required to be Division I. Programs only have to hit that number once every two years.

Click Here for Full Story

(Chippe)Wow.

I'd say it goes well beyond fudging if those numbers are accurate, more like fraud. To say people who are working the game count towards the attendance is flat out unethical.

Sly Fox wrote:I don't recall seeing this two years ago when it was published. But the student newspaper at Central Michigan with some surprisingly strong journalism exposing their school's football attendance woes.

Central Michigan Life wrote:Football attendance fails to reach NCAA Division I standards
Posted by Matt Thompson on February 5, 2012 at 11:45 pm


Figures comparing ticket sales versus announced football game attendance. (Source: CMU Athletics documents)

Fans and critics of the Central Michigan football team have long doubted attendance numbers announced during games.

It turns out they’re right.

The athletic department has inflated attendance numbers announced to fans and media while expecting to report a number to NCAA about Division I status.

Athletics Director Dave Heeke expects that the attendance number submitted to the NCAA Feb. 15 will be lower than the 15,000 average attendance required to be Division I. Programs only have to hit that number once every two years.

Click Here for Full Story

Glad we've never done that at LU

lynchburgwildcats wrote:I'd say it goes well beyond fudging if those numbers are accurate, more like fraud. To say people who are working the game count towards the attendance is flat out unethical.

Well obviously you have never worked in an athletic department because that happens with announced attendance at every school in America.

Attendance is a count of everyone who attends the game. Do workers attend? Yes. Do players and coaches attend? Yes. Do concession stand operators attend? Yes.

Not to mention the number of imaginary friends who attend the game.

Liberty22 wrote:

lynchburgwildcats wrote:I'd say it goes well beyond fudging if those numbers are accurate, more like fraud. To say people who are working the game count towards the attendance is flat out unethical.

Well obviously you have never worked in an athletic department because that happens with announced attendance at every school in America.

That is 100% false and would be one of the easiest statements to ever disprove in the history of civilization.

JK37 wrote:Attendance is a count of everyone who attends the game. Do workers attend? Yes. Do players and coaches attend? Yes. Do concession stand operators attend? Yes.

Not according to NCAA Division I manual, at least partially, which is what ultimately matters to these schools.

20.9.7.3.1.2.1.1 Noncounted Students. Student-athletes and cheerleaders scheduled by the institution to be at the game and students performing services at the stadium (e.g., concessionaires, ticket takers, parking-lot attendants, ushers, groundskeepers) shall not be counted toward meeting the attendance requirements.

lynchburgwildcats wrote:

Liberty22 wrote:

lynchburgwildcats wrote:I'd say it goes well beyond fudging if those numbers are accurate, more like fraud. To say people who are working the game count towards the attendance is flat out unethical.

Well obviously you have never worked in an athletic department because that happens with announced attendance at every school in America.

That is 100% false and would be one of the easiest statements to ever disprove in the history of civilization.

As I said, you obviously have never worked in an athletic department or at least in a ticket office where attendance comes from

lynchburgwildcats wrote:

Liberty22 wrote:

lynchburgwildcats wrote:I'd say it goes well beyond fudging if those numbers are accurate, more like fraud. To say people who are working the game count towards the attendance is flat out unethical.

Well obviously you have never worked in an athletic department because that happens with announced attendance at every school in America.

That is 100% false and would be one of the easiest statements to ever disprove in the history of civilization.

well then where is the example since its so easy to disprove?

Those differences are a bit bigger than the number of people working events so this debate is pointless

thepostman wrote:Those differences are a bit bigger than the number of people working events so this debate is pointless

This.

There is no way they had thousands of people playing on the field, ushering, doing concessions, directing parking/traffic, in the pressbox, etc...

What about students that swipe their cards? That post of article just says ticket sales. I know most big FBS schools require a ticket from lottery system for student, but those Mac schools probably don't do they??

BJWilliams wrote:

lynchburgwildcats wrote:

Liberty22 wrote: Well obviously you have never worked in an athletic department because that happens with announced attendance at every school in America.

That is 100% false and would be one of the easiest statements to ever disprove in the history of civilization.

well then where is the example since its so easy to disprove?

You folks make this too easy sometimes...

I have worked in college athletics in the sports information capacity. I and many others do not count people who work the games. Don't believe me? Go ask the folks in the Lynchburg College Sports Information Office then. In fact, you can ask them specifically about the men's basketball game there from this weekend that I kept the official stats for. And you can ask any SID that has ever hosted an NCAA Tournament game in any sport that the only # that counts for attendance is the number the ticket sellers give you after the game for total paid attendance, which means people who work the games do not count towards attendance.

lynchburgwildcats wrote: You folks make this too easy sometimes...

I have worked in college athletics in the sports information capacity. I and many others do not count people who work the games. Don't believe me? Go ask the folks in the Lynchburg College Sports Information Office then. In fact, you can ask them specifically about the men's basketball game there from this weekend that I kept the official stats for. And you can ask any SID that has ever hosted an NCAA Tournament game in any sport that the only # that counts for attendance is the number the ticket sellers give you after the game for total paid attendance, which means people who work the games do not count towards attendance.

LOL, there you have it. You do realize the ticket office inflates the number to include workers, etc.

I never realized LC was the bench mark. I stand corrected.

Of course, I have at least as much (and, I'm guessing with 99.9% surety, I actually have more) experience in exactly the same capacity or higher at no fewer than three NCAA institutions competing two levels above LC - all three of whom bloated numbers and spurned accuracy. And at all three, I personally literally input the numbers into the Stat Crew box score program.

But, you're probably right.

Liberty22 wrote:

lynchburgwildcats wrote: You folks make this too easy sometimes...

I have worked in college athletics in the sports information capacity. I and many others do not count people who work the games. Don't believe me? Go ask the folks in the Lynchburg College Sports Information Office then. In fact, you can ask them specifically about the men's basketball game there from this weekend that I kept the official stats for. And you can ask any SID that has ever hosted an NCAA Tournament game in any sport that the only # that counts for attendance is the number the ticket sellers give you after the game for total paid attendance, which means people who work the games do not count towards attendance.

I chortle audibly., there you have it. You do realize the ticket office inflates the number to include workers, etc.

Let this be a lesson as to what happens when you feed the Troll

Purple Haize wrote:
Let this be a lesson as to what happens when you feed the Troll

My bad! I just remembered the three rules:

No Water
No Food past Midnight
No Bright Lights

Stupid, Stupid, Stupid!

JK37 wrote:I never realized LC was the bench mark. I stand corrected.

You are so clearly missing the point. One person said including workers is done at EVERY school in America. I say that is 100% false. I present one school that doesn't. That means not every school does it. Therefore the statement that every school does it is in fact false. Do you understand now?

Liberty22 wrote:

lynchburgwildcats wrote: You folks make this too easy sometimes...

I have worked in college athletics in the sports information capacity. I and many others do not count people who work the games. Don't believe me? Go ask the folks in the Lynchburg College Sports Information Office then. In fact, you can ask them specifically about the men's basketball game there from this weekend that I kept the official stats for. And you can ask any SID that has ever hosted an NCAA Tournament game in any sport that the only # that counts for attendance is the number the ticket sellers give you after the game for total paid attendance, which means people who work the games do not count towards attendance.

I chortle audibly., there you have it. You do realize the ticket office inflates the number to include workers, etc.

NCAA doesn't take too kind to it when the money you give them equals less than the listed attendance.

Again those differences in attendance and tickets sold numbers are very large. Much larger than the number of workers at that game so this argument, like many lynchburgwildcat is involved in on here, is completely pointless.

thepostman wrote:Again those differences in attendance and tickets sold numbers are very large. Much larger than the number of workers at that game so this argument, like many lynchburgwildcat is involved in on here, is completely pointless.

Never said it was the difference, and I'd be highly interested to see your evidence to the contrary without having to fabricate it. So once again, the point you are trying to make is asinine as usual.

dude, I wasn't arguing with you. I was saying what you were arguing about was pointless.

thepostman wrote:dude, I wasn't arguing with you. I was saying what you were arguing about was pointless.

Don't be hard on him. It's what Trolls do