[DB89]

The reason I ask is because (stick with me), no matter how much effort Rick Warren and his son expended to pray away his son's depression, it would not go away. I saw an interview of a CNN host, who is a Christian, who commented that no matter how hard he tried, "I just couldn't pray the gay away."

So, how do we address that in our faith? Aren't they (Rick Warren's son and i.e. Jason Collins) saying the same thing, "Hey, I didn't ask to be this way. It is just me."

By the way, I was born a certain way as well....liar, hater, womanizer, et al, but in Christ Jesus, I live new in Him.

I'm sorry if my post doesn't make sense.

[Purple Haize]

I believe we have a Prof who was quoted as saying watching the porn will give you the gay.

[bluedevilflame]

I believe we have a Prof who was quoted as saying watching the porn will give you the gay.

Yep that's how it works

[RubberMallet]

the media retardation over this is almost hilarious if it wasnt so sad. omeche was gay? yeah yeah but he was retired. soccer, tennis, boxeing athletes have come out. yeah yeah but its not one of the big four. they are forcing the enormity of a fringe nba player telling a reporter hes gay. im sure this isnt the attention he wanted. or maybe he wants just that.

this all but guarantees him a roster spot. can you be the one franchise who says no thanks? HOMOPHOBE!! a fringe guy who really doesn't belong on a roster just got himself another paycheck. bravo. i fully expect juan howard to be coming out any day now.

[JK37]

The article in SI is a first-person essay. And he's on the cover. I believe he wants this attention.

Agreed the media is clamoring to make this as much of a story as they can.

[Purple Haize]

The article in SI is a first-person essay. And he's on the cover. I believe he wants this attention.

Agreed the media is clamoring to make this as much of a story as they can.

I wonder how many more years he needs till he's eligible for NBA retirement pension? May have something to do with it

[LUconn]

They have been absolutely begging for this for a few years now. And now it's finally arrived. I have heard the word "ignorant" probably 100 times today in reference to any opposition.

[lynchburgwildcats]

They have been absolutely begging for this for a few years now. And now it's finally arrived. I have heard the word "ignorant" probably 100 times today in reference to any opposition.

And I've seen much worse spouted from the mouths/fingers of religious zealots who seem to think their religion needs to be used as a vehicle for hate and bigotry. If one disagrees with homosexuality on the basis of faith, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that at all. It's a whole different deal to be calling people evil, damning them to hell, and calling out for homosexuals to be discriminated against, shunned, and sent into exile - and yes, I have seen all of that today.

Let he who is free of sin cast the first stone. If one really believes in their faith, they should realize their god(s) will make everything work out in the end, not the job of a follower to make such judgement!

[LUconn]

No, that was all gobbledygook

[thepostman]

Of course there has been people saying hateful things but lets be careful and not lump everybody into one group. People will be asked questions and answer honestly and all of a sudden they are labeled bigots. I think it is overused and really harmful to any real discussion. I am not saying people you claim to be Christians aren't at all acting wrong in their approach or even in their words. I just think that people ask questions knowing what the answers will be simply as a way to jump on them.

I believe homosexuality is wrong. I also do not expect those who do not have my worldview to agree with that. That is fine. I can live with it. I am a big boy and can get along with people with all kinds of worldviews. People know my stance but it doesn't have to be this ridiculously polarizing issue we make it.

Just my 2 cents which I am sure will get torn apart on no matter what side of this debate you are on....oh well

[flamehunter]

Well said postie.

[lynchburgwildcats]

No, that was all gobbledygook

Gobbledygook! What's next, scallywags and rif raff?! lol

[RubberMallet]

Let he who is free of sin cast the first stone. If one really believes in their faith, they should realize their god(s) will make everything work out in the end, not the job of a follower to make such judgement!

some should of told the apostle paul this. maybe he wouldnt of understood contextual application and turned from his wrong doing.

[lynchburgwildcats]

Of course there has been people saying hateful things but lets be careful and not lump everybody into one group. People will be asked questions and answer honestly and all of a sudden they are labeled bigots. I think it is overused and really harmful to any real discussion. I am not saying people you claim to be Christians aren't at all acting wrong in their approach or even in their words. I just think that people ask questions knowing what the answers will be simply as a way to jump on them.

I believe homosexuality is wrong. I also do not expect those who do not have my worldview to agree with that. That is fine. I can live with it. I am a big boy and can get along with people with all kinds of worldviews. People know my stance but it doesn't have to be this ridiculously polarizing issue we make it.

Just my 2 cents which I am sure will get torn apart on no matter what side of this debate you are on....oh well

I was only calling out the religious zealots, not everyone of any faith, and not specifically Christian ones either. That, of course, means that rational folks like you are exempt from such statements I made. Most of the zealots I have seen are Christian, but I chalk that up to merely a numbers issue given Christianity is the overwhelming most popular religion in this country. I'm sure there are psychos from other faiths spewing out similar type filth.

[thepostman]

I am just curious as to what kind of statements you are talking about. Because some of the things I have seen labeled "bigoted", "homophobic", etc have simply been people stating their view which happens to be the same view I hold. Not condemning or even being hateful.

[RubberMallet]

people that like to use the word "zealot" are the type of people who think fish stickers on a car is someone pushing their religion on others.

[thepostman]

well i think people who feel the need to put fish stickers on their cars are the kind of people who need to feel they are covering their all their bases to get to heaven, but that is just me...haha

[ALUmnus]

I don't know why I listened to sports talk radio at all yesterday, but on my way home the dude on the radio (Coach, who is consistently terrible) actually suggested that David Stern institute some type of affirmative action to ensure that gay athletes will be in the NBA. He didn't use those words, but that's what he suggested. And you know what, I'm almost certain something like that will happen, whether it's in the NBA or the NFL. Definitely will open up some roster spots for guys who couldn't normally make the team, and all you have to do is say you're gay (and there's no way to prove you are or aren't).

The media were soooo ready for this. I'm surprised there's not a cash reward out there for any athlete to come out.

Oh, and how long before Chris Broussard is either fired or sent to re-education camp and a forced apology tour? I'm sure Kobe Bryant can tell him all about it.

[VAGolf]

Question, if Liberty says we're gay, can we get a conference invite?


If you can't understand sarcasm, this question is not meant to be taken literally.

[El Scorcho]

Well, now that everyone has vented their feelings about the story, could we get back to answering DB89's original question?

Or was this just meant to be a gripe session?

[SuperJon]

I'll bite. What I'm about to post is a series of message between me and a group of friends. For the most part, it hits on what he asks, but there are places where it probably strays a little bit. I took out an entire section where we talked about homosexual marriage so if there's a little bit that doesn't flow, that's why. Rip me apart, but this is my stance on it:

Homosexual desires in and of themselves are not a sin. A desire alone cannot be a sin. Sin requires action. I desire to touch every boob I see. Acting on that desire, or even thinking about/considering that desire is where it becomes a sin. We are told to flee from sexual desires (1 Corinthians 6:18).

Having the desire or attraction to another person of the same sex is not a sin. Loving someone of the same sex is not a sin. Lusting after or acting on that desire is where it becomes a sinful action. Just like I can't go grabbing the butt of every attractive female, a person with homosexual desires can't go do that with someone of the same sex without it being a sin.

If you have homosexual desires and tendency, and if you love someone of the same sex, then more power to you. Love them until you die. Unfortunately, I cannot support you in saying that you're allowed to take that love sexual. There is nothing wrong with loving someone of the same sex, but sexual actions between two people of the same sex is, according to the Bible, a sin.

Just as I must fight the desire to lust after every C-cup in a push up bra that walks through the doors of my church every weekend, they have to fight the desire to lust after the person they love. Is it fair? Absolutely not. That's not the point though.

I feel for them. I really do. I believe that because there is sin in this world, people are sometimes dealt an unfair hand. It's not fair that a child is born with autism. It's not fair that a child is born with a chemical imbalance and leads to depression and suicidal thoughts. It's not fair that I can't have sex with anyone I want to. It's not about being fair. It's about a belief system and a holy and righteous God that created us to be like him.

It's not fair that the only person to ever live a sinless life was beaten, tortured, and killed so that one day I might have the chance to be made holy and righteous. If we want to talk about fairness, that's the ultimate injustice. But we don't mention that as being unfair because it worked to our benefit. We only look at things that are unfair if they go against us negatively.

I also feel for alcoholics. They should be able to have a drink with their friends if they want. But they can't because it leads to addiction and a cycle that they can't break free from. I feel for people with chronic illnesses. They should be able to live a happy and active life. But they can't because they have to save their strength for treatments or their bodies can't handle the activity.

In my mind, even though I think it's gross, I want people with homosexual desires to be in love, to have a great life, to get to experience the things that I experience with my wife. But I also want a lot of other things that God sees and describes as evil. I must submit my desires to his. That's where this entire thing in our society divides: are you willing to submit your desires to someone higher than you or do you want to decide what's right and wrong?

[flamesfilmguy]

wow. I've known jon for awhile and consider him one of my good friends. He's always been able to articulate things WAY better than I ever could in writing. I agree with all of the above post. I just wasn't going to post because the good Lord knows I am terrible with words, and writing skills in general(right SJ?). Its sad that Christians don't want to look at it in that way. I can't wait to see the reactions to this.

[RubberMallet]

i want to touch boobs too.

quickly scanning over the post, i think its probably a very good response with caveats.

[ALUmnus]

There's no such thing as an evil desire? Scripture tells us explictly that the battle of the flesh is a battle of the mind. Our desires are a direct result of our fallen nature and where our heart is directed to (sin). And only through Christ and a regenerated mind will those desires change. You're derailing your argument from the start with the language you're using. Timothy Dalrymple does the same thing and I just don't think it works. Now he's a lot smarter than me, but I think he's wrong.

To answer the question, "can the gay be prayed away?" (which itself is a horrible way to put it). Yes, if God so chooses.

[flamesfilmguy]

i want to touch boobs too.

I thought about going there. but I figured either you or haize would and didn't want to steal anyone's thunder lol