A Sea Of Red

Scoring in Division I men's basketball is at its lowest point since 1951-52. Teams averaged 67.5 points per game in 2012-13.

Team 3-point shooting percentage declined to its lowest mark since the 3-point line was introduced in 1986-87. Teams shot 34.05% from 3-point range this season, continuing a decline that began in 2011.

Foul calls reached an all-time low, and teams shot the fewest free throws of any season since 1976. Teams averaged for 17.68 fouls each per game, and they shot fewer than 20 free throws a game (19.76) for only the fifth time in history.

Assists and turnovers reached extremes they haven't seen since 1993, when the report first tracked them. Assists saw a low of 12.82 per game, continuing a trend that began in 2007. Turnovers, meanwhile, also reached a low for recorded history, falling to 13.30 a game. Turnovers have declined every year since 2000.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nc ... w/2107661/

This is what happens when you let players hack, grab, and slash all game long to impunity! NBA doesn't do a lot of things "right", but one thing they have done a great job at in regards to officiating is preventing the hacking, grabbing, and slashing as well as having the IQ to actually know what a charge is. What we see now in the college game is bordering on the 1990's NBA when teams like the Knicks and Heat would engage in virtual street fights instead of basketball games.

If the refs starting calling games that way, the adjustment period would be ugly, but players and coaches will adjust if they want to play or keep their job and that will be a tremendous benefit in the long run.

yeah, its even worse then that. The NBA of the late 90's became such a horrible product because of that. College basketball has gone down that same road for whatever reason. I use to watch a ton of college basketball, but not so much these days.

I am sure someone will come on here and explain how awful the NBA is, but it is much more entertaining then the college game at this point its not even funny

the scoring goes hand in hand with the no foul calls. some like that they "let them play" but is completely inconsistent at the college level. the refs were out and out terrible this year.

watching the tournament is fun for me every year because i watch it normally with guys who are "college basketball is better fundamental basketball than the nba" and we sit and i giggle as i watch people falling down, traveling calls, bad free throw shooting, 24 shot clock violation, and turn the ball over is hilariously unique ways. yeah guys...you got me.

thepostman wrote:yeah, its even worse then that. The NBA of the late 90's became such a horrible product because of that. College basketball has gone down that same road for whatever reason. I use to watch a ton of college basketball, but not so much these days.

I am sure someone will come on here and explain how awful the NBA is, but it is much more entertaining then the college game at this point its not even funny

Last night's Golden State game was the most entertaining game I have seen all season, NBA an college combined - excluding games in person. College game is borderline awful right now.

The reason is, in college they actually play defense

Except Michigan. But I dislike Bee-line anyway.

RubberMallet wrote:the scoring goes hand in hand with the no foul calls. some like that they "let them play" but is completely inconsistent at the college level. the refs were out and out terrible this year.

The worst part of the officiating is how different it is from conference to conference. The Big East and B1G are just slogball mugging contests quite often. Then you get to the tournament and the refs that let that stuff go are out of the picture and teams struggle to adjust to having to play real defense and run real offense (except this year where a nearly talentless offensive Louisville team was allowed to mug people all the way to a title). I think the NCAA may have to adjust the current system so that conferences are still hiring their own officials but the NCAA is the one grading the refs and assigning them to games based on that. More uniformity in the officiating will help teams develop over the course of the season and hopefully lead to a better tournament where actual basketball play wins out over whatever it was that Louisville was doing this year.

It will change. A lot of the college coaches have been screaming for change for a few seasons now and I think the NCAA will crack down on a lot of the physical play.

The block/charge rule has to change. It's a toss-up 90% of the time which way the ref is going to go. There isn't any rhyme or reason and it's killing the college game.

jbock13 wrote:The reason is, in college they actually play defense

Except Michigan. But I dislike Bee-line anyway.

in basketball, good offense trumps good defense. thats why defense in the nba is sometimes missed. because nba talent is so good offensively they can hit 17-20 footers with their eyes closed. the outside jumpshot is just not really defendable. in college basketball a 17 footer is a last resort. the majority of scoring comes from the 3, driving to the lane, or in the post. don't mistake lesser shooting skills for good defense.

RubberMallet wrote:

jbock13 wrote:The reason is, in college they actually play defense

Except Michigan. But I dislike Bee-line anyway.

in basketball, good offense trumps good defense. thats why defense in the nba is sometimes missed. because nba talent is so good offensively they can hit 17-20 footers with their eyes closed. the outside jumpshot is just not really defendable. in college basketball a 17 footer is a last resort. the majority of scoring comes from the 3, driving to the lane, or in the post. don't mistake lesser shooting skills for good defense.

Maybe in Upward. You are equating 'Good Defense' with fouling. You can always have off shooting nights you don't have to have off effort nights. How many offensive oriented teams have won the NBA title?
You are spot on though about the disappearance of the mid range jump shot in CBB. They can be attributed to the current coach if the National Champs Louisville Cardinals. It is also a more open shot and viable weapon in the NBA because of the distance of the 3 pt line.

Purple Haize wrote:

RubberMallet wrote:

jbock13 wrote:The reason is, in college they actually play defense

Except Michigan. But I dislike Bee-line anyway.

in basketball, good offense trumps good defense. thats why defense in the nba is sometimes missed. because nba talent is so good offensively they can hit 17-20 footers with their eyes closed. the outside jumpshot is just not really defendable. in college basketball a 17 footer is a last resort. the majority of scoring comes from the 3, driving to the lane, or in the post. don't mistake lesser shooting skills for good defense.

Maybe in Upward. You are equating 'Good Defense' with fouling. You can always have off shooting nights you don't have to have off effort nights. How many offensive oriented teams have won the NBA title?

you are mistaking effort with defense then? i'm certainly not equating good defense with fouling. good defense is a matter of not allowing open looks. a good defense has a hand in a face at all times, and gets guys out of position. moreso than any other sport, you can play the perfect defense on a guy and he can still score. the nba has so many of these types of scorers that some people say theres no defense but really it doesn't matter the defense at times.

post bulls, only 2 championship teams were in the bottom half of the league in scoring. most others in the top 12 separated by only a point or two from the top team. don't also mistake the term good offense trumps good defense to mean that defense doesn't matter. i just contend if you take the best defensive team in the league and pit them against the best offensive team in the league, in a 7 game series, the offensive team is going to win the majority of the time. it won't be a blowout, but i think they prevail.

RubberMallet wrote:
you are mistaking effort with defense then? i'm certainly not equating good defense with fouling. good defense is a matter of not allowing open looks. a good defense has a hand in a face at all times, and gets guys out of position. moreso than any other sport, you can play the perfect defense on a guy and he can still score. the nba has so many of these types of scorers that some people say theres no defense but really it doesn't matter the defense at times.

post bulls, only 2 championship teams were in the bottom half of the league in scoring. most others in the top 12 separated by only a point or two from the top team. don't also mistake the term good offense trumps good defense to mean that defense doesn't matter. i just contend if you take the best defensive team in the league and pit them against the best offensive team in the league, in a 7 game series, the offensive team is going to win the majority of the time. it won't be a blowout, but i think they prevail.

That makes more sense but disagree in a 7 game series. I also disagree with what constitutes good defense. I think the closest you get 'gets guys out of position'. I agree but would expand it to making the offense do something they are not either used to or comfortable with. Players hit shots, its a given. But as a defense you have to decide which shots you are going to give up. It's much easier to make defensive adjustments over the course of a servers than offensive adjustments.

Purple Haize wrote:

RubberMallet wrote:
you are mistaking effort with defense then? i'm certainly not equating good defense with fouling. good defense is a matter of not allowing open looks. a good defense has a hand in a face at all times, and gets guys out of position. moreso than any other sport, you can play the perfect defense on a guy and he can still score. the nba has so many of these types of scorers that some people say theres no defense but really it doesn't matter the defense at times.

post bulls, only 2 championship teams were in the bottom half of the league in scoring. most others in the top 12 separated by only a point or two from the top team. don't also mistake the term good offense trumps good defense to mean that defense doesn't matter. i just contend if you take the best defensive team in the league and pit them against the best offensive team in the league, in a 7 game series, the offensive team is going to win the majority of the time. it won't be a blowout, but i think they prevail.

That makes more sense but disagree in a 7 game series. I also disagree with what constitutes good defense. I think the closest you get 'gets guys out of position'. I agree but would expand it to making the offense do something they are not either used to or comfortable with. Players hit shots, its a given. But as a defense you have to decide which shots you are going to give up. It's much easier to make defensive adjustments over the course of a servers than offensive adjustments.

defense is predicated on the outcome of the offense. if a team shoots 65% the untrained eye will say the other team played bad defense, if they shoot 35% the untrained eye will say it was great defense, when its quite possible and many times actually is the case that the opposite is true.

you are correct in all about what a good defense does. its all about probability. if you can force a team to take an uncomfortable shot, then the chances of a make are less. my argument is that its harder to defend a good offensive team with good defense in the nba because the probability of a shot being a bad shot is alot lower with nba talent. which is why teams in the top half of offense generally win out over the course of an nba season. teams that are offensive and defensive proficient obviously have the upper hand.

I believe your stat was that there were only 1 or 2 points separating the Top 12 offensive teams in the NBA. That being the case it just says that these teams can score. So what separates them? Defense. You have much better player at the NBA level no doubt about it. But they are also better defenders too. Plus, the NBA still has crazy defensive rules that I believe we're created by the guy who invented the Rubicks cube!
It's best that the rules makers understand that the NBA and College game are different. IMO, the NCAA wants to mirror the NBA in its rules and enforcement, which is a mistake

Purple Haize wrote:Maybe in Upward. You are equating 'Good Defense' with fouling. You can always have off shooting nights you don't have to have off effort nights. How many offensive oriented teams have won the NBA title?

Don't mistake not being offensive oriented for being not as equally good or better of an offensive team. Now I'm not going to use per game averages or any non-sense statistics that are every bit as much influenced by pace as anything else. I'm going to use stats that are irrelevant to pace, like offensive and defensive rating.

Of the 36 NBA champions since the merger, 18 of them have had an league rank offensive rating of greater or equal value than their defensive rating. Obviously, that means 18 have had a defensive rating rank of greater or equal value to the offensive rating rank.

A top eight team in terms of offensive rating has won the NBA title 28 times since the NBA-ABA merger. A top eight team in terms of defensive rating has won the NBA title 29 times since the merger.

The #1 team in offensive rating has won the title seven times, the top defensive team has won it seven times as well. The #2 team in offensive rating has six titles, the #2 in defensive rating has won it four times.